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A serious thread about online poker

Fjones

Fjones

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
3,326
Hello gaming lounge.

I am a veteran online poker player with some solid results over the years. There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding out there about online poker.

I am making this post to answer any questions or have any discussions that any Bluelighters might have about online poker.

Serious posts only please, such as questions about bankroll, strategy, mental approach, the mathematics involved, game selection, etc.

Bluelight has been helpful to me and I would like to return the favor by sharing knowledge of something I am good at.
 
what is the best site to play on with real $ and not get screwed. I heard of some sites where hackers can see everyone's cards.
 
^
You're probably thinking of Absolute, where one guy who used to work there found a bug that let him see cards.

I play there all the time, and I've never seen a problem. I'm a winning player there (not much, but I'm grinding my way up). I like it. Pokerstars is good because it has a lot more players, and a wider variety of games (but at the same time, it can have almost too many players, if you want to play a tourney with 100-300 people, it's not so good).
 
I would recommend pokerstars or Full Tilt. I play on Full tilt. You will not get screwed. There have been no cheating scandals as far as I know. Getting money in and out can be a bit challenging because of the US government's crazed anti-poker war. If you are not in the US, you have nothing to worry about.
 
Whats the best way to build your bankroll? Ring games? Small S N Gs? Small buy-in (like $1-5) tourneys?

Also, I've been told that .01/.02 ring games contain lots of scrubs, while .05/.10 and higher contain more 'serious' players. This seems only natural... but I'm going to make my first deposit into Pstars ($25 -- will be $50 w/ the bonus code though) soon, and want to know where to start.

Absolute has $50 free rolls daily, which isn't bad, if you're looking for a site with frequent free rolls. I won $0.52 the other day when I finished 14th. It only took 4.5hrs (lol), but it's the first free roll where I've actually won anything, so I'm pretty happy. And yeah it's only $0.52, but it puts ramen on the table.%)
 
Bodog used to have good free rolls. Pokerstars is good for low stake tourneys (like $0.10).

Your bonus will only kick in once you've played a certain number of hands/tourneys, at a certain value (basically, forget about getting it if you're playing low stakes).

Serious players? Depends who you ask. Go on the Card Player forums, they'll tell you there are no serious players at $1/2. For me, 0.05/0.10 is fine (I haven't played higher, i mainly play tourneys). Start as low as possible (especially with $25. If you buy in with the max, which you should, then even at a 0.05/0.10 table, you've got 80% of your bankroll in play!).
 
The best way to build a roll is to use proper bankroll management. If you are playing single table tournaments, have at least 100 buy-ins. If playing ring games, have at least 30 buy-ins. If you are playing large multi-table tournaments, well, good luck. Those are a crapshoot. You can play thousands of those without getting into the "long run."

The best option is the one you like best. I find ring games excruciating, so I play SNGs and dabble in the large Multis.

And, uh, you aren't going to find any "Serious" players at nickel dime. It's nickel dime!! Maybe I am not sure what you mean by "serious" players.

Freerolls are not a good way to build a bankroll. They take too much time for too little reward.

Have reasonable goals for how soon you expect to double your money. Trying to win too much too fast results in reckless and risky play that doesn't usually pay off.
 
Read some poker books, talk to successful players, browse online forums, and of course, by playing.

Most sites have very small stakes games that can provide "cheap lessons." I do not advise learning by playing play-money games, as no one takes it seriously and you will do yourself more harm than good.

David Sklansky has written several good introductory books ( As well as some advanced ones). Brunson's Super System and Super System 2 have some good sections on most forms of poker.

Most people don't understand what poker is really about and thus they do poorly.

What level are you at right now? Do you have any knowledge or experience?
 
Fjones, what's your personal playing style? Aggressive? Loose? I realize your playing style may change depending on who the players are and where you are in the tourney, but 'in general', how do you play? Whats been most successful for you?

The only way I got deep in that free roll was that towards the latter half of the tourney I'd only play monster hands aggressively or try and see a flop (relatively cheaply) if I had a low pocket pair and was in position, and if I hit trips it was easy to trap them.
 
I've found that below $.50/$1 blinds or $10-20 for a sit-n-go are about the levels (IME, at least) are the ones where seriousness starts to come into play. I mostly play sit-no-go's and the occasional ring game, but I don't play multi-table tourneys (I can't stand a tourney lasting longer than 30min-1hour).
 
Bedhead said:
Fjones, what's your personal playing style? Aggressive? Loose? I realize your playing style may change depending on who the players are and where you are in the tourney, but 'in general', how do you play? Whats been most successful for you?

The only way I got deep in that free roll was that towards the latter half of the tourney I'd only play monster hands aggressively or try and see a flop (relatively cheaply) if I had a low pocket pair and was in position, and if I hit trips it was easy to trap them.
Click to expand...

I play tight early on, and then I loosen it up as the tournament progresses. The chips are far more valuable later on than early. In either case, it is important to be aggressive. Whether you are playing tight or loose, you should be playing aggressively.

Opponents aren't goign to just hand you a pot if you check and call constantly. If you let them have cheap cards and cheap showdowns, they will win pots you might otherwise take with aggressive play.

One can only survive so many all-ins in a tournament, so another goal should be to pick your spots and pick up chips without showdowns whenever possible.
 
Bedhead said:
The only way I got deep in that free roll was that towards the latter half of the tourney I'd only play monster hands aggressively or try and see a flop (relatively cheaply) if I had a low pocket pair and was in position, and if I hit trips it was easy to trap them.
Click to expand...

This is not a winning strategy. limping in with hands is generally a bad idea, especially from position. Also, playing small pocket pairs "no set no bet" is not a good overall strategy.
 
Fjones said:
This is not a winning strategy. limping in with hands is generally a bad idea, especially from position. Also, playing small pocket pairs "no set no bet" is not a good overall strategy.
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So how do you play pocket pairs like 66/77/88 then? Small re-raise if you have good position? What about UTG? Fold?

My only fear w/ raising w/ say 77/88 is that someone calls w/ KJ or similar and the flop comes 2 4 K. At that point, if he bets, you pretty much have to fold, right?
 
Early on in the tournament, from early position, I might just fold those. What are you hoping happens if you play it? You limp in, no one raises, and you get a miracle flop? And than also someone has enough of the flop to pay you off? How often does that happen? If you raise, you might get reraised, which you cannot tolerate, or, someone calls and you are out of position in a raised pot with a hand that doesn't play well after the flop.

In position, raise it or fold it. Again, what are you hoping to accomplish by limping in? Now you have no idea what the blinds have, and you have to play against multiple people. Pots are easier to win against small fields. If you get static after the flop in a raise pot with a king on it you probably have to fold.

If you get a clean flop, you do not necessarily have to bet all three streets. If you constantly bet three streets with one pair or less, you are going to chase a lot of the hands you beat, but get killed by the ones that beat you. That is a negative EV approach. Sometimes you can get value from weaker hands by checking the flop or turn. Now you can ensure a showdown at the river for one bet.

So, you must be selectively aggressive, but also engage in pot control with modest holdings.
 
Just to add to that some more -- If you constantly mess around with small pocket pairs in the early stages, you are going to put yourself in a lot of difficult spots. Online poker games generally have fast blind levels and small starting stacks relative to the blinds. You cannot afford to be constantly losing 100 chips here and there without showdowns. But that is exactly what will happen.

If you are playing a higher buy-in tournament, you might get 3000 chips with blinds 10 - 20 and 12 minute levels. In this case, you can dabble a bit more. But with 6 minute levels and blinds 15 - 30 and 1500 chips, you cannot afford to lose any chips. You will be shortstacked before you know it and at the mercy of the cards as you try to push all in to pick up blinds or double up.
 
i find the first things i learned which took me from a beginner online player to being comfortable in the casino is that there are no hard and fast rules about how to play certain hands, etc.

being able to adapt to prevailing table conditions is, for me, the most important aspect of a player's game. i tend to view advice which begins "you should always..." pretty dimly.

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
i find the first things i learned which took me from a beginner online player to being comfortable in the casino is that there are no hard and fast rules about how to play certain hands, etc.

being able to adapt to prevailing table conditions is, for me, the most important aspect of a player's game. i tend to view advice which begins "you should always..." pretty dimly.

alasdair
Click to expand...

Really? You are going to adapt to a table in a small stakes, fast-blinds short stack online poker tournament?

No. The way to play those is with hard and fast rules.

What you described sounds great for live ring game poker, but not great for low stakes online tournaments.
 
Fjones said:
No. The way to play those is with hard and fast rules.
Click to expand...
yes! :)

we'll agree to disagree.

if you can't (or won't) adapt your play, i think that limits your available tools. 90% of the games i play are small-stakes online tournaments. sure, i'll generally play certain starting hands in certain ways. sure, position and stack size are as important as always but i can't imagine limiting my options because i've told myself "you have to do this...".

alasdair
 
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How do you play against super-aggressive players (say you're into the middle/later half a tourney blinds 200/400 50 ante) who almost always re-raise you pre-flo? If I miss the flop w/ A 10 suited I feel like I have no choice but to fold if they put out a little less than 1/2 pot bet. Meanwhile the blinds/antes are eating away at my short chip stack.

Only call/raise w/ decent hands?

The few times I won I had top pair top kicker on the flop and re-raised all in, and he folded. Thoughts? Am I approaching this situation incorrectly? I find myself a little confused and don't know exactly what to do when I'm at a table w/ a few super-aggressive players.

Then he finally knocked me out when he called my all-in raise w/ a jack high flush draw, which he hit on the turn. Which, if my all-in re-raise is a little more than 1/2 the pot, doesn't make sense math mathematically, right? 6k in pot, 3.5k re-raise from me. That's like 3:1 pot odds for him to call. (think I got that right...)

Maybe this is just the agony you suffer from playing free roll tourneys...
 
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