Which drugs would you legalize?

[Fjones]

I just read through this entire thread. I am very disappointed in the poll results and many of the posts.

Even here on bluelight we don’t have a 50% majority who want to legalize all drugs. I cannot understand how people can support prohibition of some things but not others.

PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK.

It hasn’t worked and it will not work; not now, not ever.

Prohibition ignores two undeniable truths:

1) People are naturally inclined to seek pleasure and novelty, and
2) When a demand exists, a market will rise up to supply it.

We have historical evidence of the colossal failure of prohibition: The alcohol prohibition in the US in the early part of the 20th century; and, the DECADES OF TOTAL FAILURE of the war on drugs.

Whatever happened to ownership of one’s body? Why does the government have the right to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body?

The war on drugs cerates or worsens the very problems it is supposed to solve.

The direct and indirect costs of the war on drugs in the U.S. alone are 400 billion dollars per year. People often ignore the indirect and opportunity costs of the war on drugs and state only the direct costs. That is incorrect. All economic costs must be factored in.

Yes, if we legalized all drugs, we would have addiction, burnouts, and overdoses….JUST LIKE WE HAVE NOW. But the addicts would have more and cheaper options, our prisons would have much more room for real criminals, and we wouldn’t have deaths from impurities or poorly made products. When was the last time someone died from tainted beer or whiskey?

Overdoses would decrease because people would know exactly how much they are taking. Some would still overdose, but many wouldn’t.

I haven’t really heard anyone against legalization actually refute these basic points. A lot of anti-legalization arguments I have run into begin with some sort of horror story:

“I cannot believe you want to legalize drugs! Even heroin!? Are you a monster? My sister was a heroin addict (or, my brother died of a heroin overdose, etc).”

Yes, exactly. Drugs were illegal and yet these horrible things happened to your family members anyway. THE WAR ON DRUGS FAILED YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. Let’s try something else.

 

[sayanything42]

some people are retarded. like think about it.. legalizing alll drugs??? that would be total chaos! use your head man

 

[chrisinabox]

I just read through this entire thread. I am very disappointed in the poll results and many of the posts.

Even here on bluelight we don’t have a 50% majority who want to legalize all drugs. I cannot understand how people can support prohibition of some things but not others.

PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK.

It hasn’t worked and it will not work; not now, not ever.

Prohibition ignores two undeniable truths:

1) People are naturally inclined to seek pleasure and novelty, and
2) When a demand exists, a market will rise up to supply it.

We have historical evidence of the colossal failure of prohibition: The alcohol prohibition in the US in the early part of the 20th century; and, the DECADES OF TOTAL FAILURE of the war on drugs.

Whatever happened to ownership of one’s body? Why does the government have the right to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body?

The war on drugs cerates or worsens the very problems it is supposed to solve.

The direct and indirect costs of the war on drugs in the U.S. alone are 400 billion dollars per year. People often ignore the indirect and opportunity costs of the war on drugs and state only the direct costs. That is incorrect. All economic costs must be factored in.

Yes, if we legalized all drugs, we would have addiction, burnouts, and overdoses….JUST LIKE WE HAVE NOW. But the addicts would have more and cheaper options, our prisons would have much more room for real criminals, and we wouldn’t have deaths from impurities or poorly made products. When was the last time someone died from tainted beer or whiskey?

Overdoses would decrease because people would know exactly how much they are taking. Some would still overdose, but many wouldn’t.

I haven’t really heard anyone against legalization actually refute these basic points. A lot of anti-legalization arguments I have run into begin with some sort of horror story:

“I cannot believe you want to legalize drugs! Even heroin!? Are you a monster? My sister was a heroin addict (or, my brother died of a heroin overdose, etc).”

Yes, exactly. Drugs were illegal and yet these horrible things happened to your family members anyway. THE WAR ON DRUGS FAILED YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. Let’s try something else.

thank you for that informative post fjones. most ppl on here just choose the drugs they prefer or ones they think are safer and are ignorant to the truths about prohibition. they think just b/c drugs are legal, that everyone is gonna start using drugs and die. that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. just like this guy below me, wtf. he says we need to use our head when he is not even using his, and i would bet alot of money that he couldn't prove this would happen or show any data proving this would happen yet we have evidence showing how these things would not happen.

some people are retarded. like think about it.. legalizing alll drugs??? that would be total chaos! use your head man

dude you sound like an idiot. just b/c YOU think this would happen doesn't mean it would. did you not read what "fjones" and i wrote above?? we are using our heads, something that most ppl don't do, all drugs should be legal, not just the ones we prefer or ones that we think are safer. it would NOT be total chaos.

 

[Fjones]

^^^ I just ignored "sayanything's" post. It wasn't even worthy of a response. He is either A) VERY stupid and ignorant or B) a Troll looking to stir things up. Or C) He was being extremely sarcastic and didn't realize that sarcasm doesn't always come across well on the internet.

Either way, he left no room for intelligent discussion.

Thanks for the compliment about my post. The war on drugs is a topic I have spent a lot of time studying and I am very passionate about my beliefs towards this "War."

 

[chrisinabox]

^me too man. finally i see somebody post on this thread that actually has evidence to back up their point, not just their belief that everybody will just run out and buy drugs just b/c they are legal. it just pisses me off that this war continues and not just that, but only 50% of BLUELIGHT members don't want drugs legal. it just shows me that the propaganda is working to some extent or that some ppl are naive and ignorant or some ppl used to have an addiction or had a family member on drugs and now hate most of them, etc.. i used to be a heroin addict but i hold no ill will towards the drug, i blame the lifestyle, stigma, etc.. all caused by the prohibition of drugs.

 

[Gormur]

I am fully aware that many in the US (perhaps the majority) would self-destruct on these substances. Look how many people self-destruct on alcohol and prescription meds. I guess I'm conflicted between idealism and realism on this topic.

Many people drink, but most are not alcoholics. Many people use meth, most are not tweakers. Many people snort coke, most are not cokeheads..etc. Addicts have the trait of being addicted to anything. The silent majority use drugs casually.

I would legalize everything.

 

[chrisinabox]

^great article!!!

 

[sayanything42]

thank you for that informative post fjones. most ppl on here just choose the drugs they prefer or ones they think are safer and are ignorant to the truths about prohibition. they think just b/c drugs are legal, that everyone is gonna start using drugs and die. that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. just like this guy below me, wtf. he says we need to use our head when he is not even using his, and i would bet alot of money that he couldn't prove this would happen or show any data proving this would happen yet we have evidence showing how these things would not happen.



dude you sound like an idiot. just b/c YOU think this would happen doesn't mean it would. did you not read what "fjones" and i wrote above?? we are using our heads, something that most ppl don't do, all drugs should be legal, not just the ones we prefer or ones that we think are safer. it would NOT be total chaos.

duude there u go again actin like im supposed to be a fountain of knowledge to be able to post on threads... stop getting all bitchy about what i post leave it the hell alone im entitled to my opinion fucker. sorry we're not all as smart as jones.. but newsflash . . im a drug addict.. maybe ya'll should go off n start a thread or somethiing...

 

[sayanything42]

oh and im not a "he"

 

[claire22]

Oh christina how do you know it would "NOT be total chaos"? Show me some evidence. And if you can't, stop trying to claim things you have no proof of. And you said to sayanything "Just because you think it will happen doesn't mean it will" - take your own advice honey. What is this supposed 'evidence' you have? I don't see any for either side of the argument, doesn't mean YOU are correct.

 

[Fjones]

I'll be the first to admit that we will still have some serious problems if drugs were legalized. But I don't really see how things could get much worse. And I suspect we would see some improvement, possibly a grat deal of improvement.

At the very least, I think it's worth trying something else, because the current policy isn't working for ANYONE except the drug dealers and the politicians.

 

[claire22]

I don't think there's anyway out of this problem, legal or illegal.
If it were legal; do you know how many government funded rehabs/other drug related services we'd need? Wowzer.
So, the taxpayers money isn't being used any better than drug dealers being locked up.
It's a very strange situation.. you're right about the drugdealers.. these laws are the drugdealers greatest ally.

 

[sayanything42]

well i apologize for posting right off the top of my head that "it would be chaos if all drugs were legalized" or watever i said. i just posted wat i thought right away. i guess i didnt realize how serious some people take these threads... pffft lol

 

[Coolio]

Where does anyone get the idea that legal drugs leads to higher rates of drug use? The Netherlands has built decades of evidence to the contrary, that legal acceptance of drug use leads to lower rates of use.

 

[Coolio]

Oh christina how do you know it would "NOT be total chaos"? Show me some evidence. And if you can't, stop trying to claim things you have no proof of. And you said to sayanything "Just because you think it will happen doesn't mean it will" - take your own advice honey. What is this supposed 'evidence' you have? I don't see any for either side of the argument, doesn't mean YOU are correct.

Do you know anything about the history of drug prohibition? I will focus on the US-centric history even though you're from Australia, as it's more well documented and is a much larger and more complex market to use as an example for the evidence of the benefits of drug legalization.

Until the Hague Opium Convention of 1912, every drug was legal. You could buy morphine, heroin, opium, laudanum, marijuana, hashish, cannabis tinctures and extracts, cocaine, coca wine, coca tinctures and extracts, chloral hydrate (the original "date rape" drug!), etc. over the counter. Until the 1930s, marijuana was legal and for most of the history of the United States there were many, many marijuana and hemp plantations and lots of legal smoking of hashish.

In the year 1932, amphetamine became available over the counter. It was not until 1965, 33 years later, that it became a prescription drug. During that time, OTC amphetamine was as popular as illegal methamphetamine is today. Millions and millions of people used it with hardly any ill effects. Lots of them injected it, because syringes and needles were always OTC too.

Did we have chaos here in the United States for the half a century to a century that hard drugs (cocaine, heroin, morphine, amphetamine) were legal, cost only pennies per dose, and sold over the counter? No. Not at all.

There were problems with morphine and heroin addiction, but they weren't very big problems because no matter how addicted someone was, their habit was always very cheap. It cost less to feed yourself than it did to maintain an opiate habit.

 

[Shambles]

I don't think there's anyway out of this problem, legal or illegal.
If it were legal; do you know how many government funded rehabs/other drug related services we'd need? Wowzer.
So, the taxpayers money isn't being used any better than drug dealers being locked up.
It's a very strange situation.. you're right about the drugdealers.. these laws are the drugdealers greatest ally.

Of course tax money would be going to be used for a better purpose if it's helping to get people out of addiction instead of putting them into addiction - as is the case now. Prohibition keeps dealers in business, stifles honest debate, treatment and education and achieves absolutely nothing other than make the situation exponentially worse whilst costing more than most countries GDP. Complete waste of time, money and - most importantly - lives. Legalise all drugs and use that money for treatment and education instead. The problem becomes very managable again as it always was before.

The evidence for drugs being hugely less harmful when they were legal (and in countries were certain drugs have been decriminalised, etc) has been posted above in Coolio's excellent post and a number of others previously. There's lots of it cos we had a few thousand years before prohibition began to observe the "problem". There wasn't much of a problem - more accurately, the problems there were could be easily managed and stayed at a relatively constant level rather than rising year on year. Not everyone wishes to be an addict. Not everybody is even remotely interested in using drugs - not because they are illegal but simply because they are not interested in drugs.

Not one single piece of evidence to say the opposite has ever been produced, and as the majority of the world currently exists in a state of complete prohibition, you'd think there would have been some piece of evidence to say that it has some benefit to society. Any benefit to society would do. There is no evidence for this cos it just isn't the case - no benefit whatsoever, just extra and unnecessary risks, dangers and misery for millions.

 

[chrisinabox]

Where does anyone get the idea that legal drugs leads to higher rates of drug use? The Netherlands has built decades of evidence to the contrary, that legal acceptance of drug use leads to lower rates of use.

Do you know anything about the history of drug prohibition? I will focus on the US-centric history even though you're from Australia, as it's more well documented and is a much larger and more complex market to use as an example for the evidence of the benefits of drug legalization.

Until the Hague Opium Convention of 1912, every drug was legal. You could buy morphine, heroin, opium, laudanum, marijuana, hashish, cannabis tinctures and extracts, cocaine, coca wine, coca tinctures and extracts, chloral hydrate (the original "date rape" drug!), etc. over the counter. Until the 1930s, marijuana was legal and for most of the history of the United States there were many, many marijuana and hemp plantations and lots of legal smoking of hashish.

In the year 1932, amphetamine became available over the counter. It was not until 1965, 33 years later, that it became a prescription drug. During that time, OTC amphetamine was as popular as illegal methamphetamine is today. Millions and millions of people used it with hardly any ill effects. Lots of them injected it, because syringes and needles were always OTC too.

Did we have chaos here in the United States for the half a century to a century that hard drugs (cocaine, heroin, morphine, amphetamine) were legal, cost only pennies per dose, and sold over the counter? No. Not at all.

There were problems with morphine and heroin addiction, but they weren't very big problems because no matter how addicted someone was, their habit was always very cheap. It cost less to feed yourself than it did to maintain an opiate habit.

Of course tax money would be going to be used for a better purpose if it's helping to get people out of addiction instead of putting them into addiction - as is the case now. Prohibition keeps dealers in business, stifles honest debate, treatment and education and achieves absolutely nothing other than make the situation exponentially worse whilst costing more than most countries GDP. Complete waste of time, money and - most importantly - lives. Legalise all drugs and use that money for treatment and education instead. The problem becomes very managable again as it always was before.

The evidence for drugs being hugely less harmful when they were legal (and in countries were certain drugs have been decriminalised, etc) has been posted above in Coolio's excellent post and a number of others previously. There's lots of it cos we had a few thousand years before prohibition began to observe the "problem". There wasn't much of a problem - more accurately, the problems there were could be easily managed and stayed at a relatively constant level rather than rising year on year. Not everyone wishes to be an addict. Not everybody is even remotely interested in using drugs - not because they are illegal but simply because they are not interested in drugs.

Not one single piece of evidence to say the opposite has ever been produced, and as the majority of the world currently exists in a state of complete prohibition, you'd think there would have been some piece of evidence to say that it has some benefit to society. Any benefit to society would do. There is no evidence for this cos it just isn't the case - no benefit whatsoever, just extra and unnecessary risks, dangers and misery for millions.

i was gonna post my reasons but it looks like coolio and shambles did it for me, thx. also, the reason they made drugs illegal in the first place was not because they were bad for you and killing/addicting millions of ppl, it was b/c the white men were afraid of other races of men giving white women drugs and taking advantage/raping them, like the chinese for opium, mexican for cannabis, and blacks for cocaine. that is the main reason they decided to make drugs illegal. there is tons of evidence, for example, like coolio said, the many decades of legal acceptance in the netherlands to show the opposite of what you are saying. i would like to see ANY sort of evidence that agrees with what claire22 and sayanthing are saying.

 

[Huaca]

All drugs should be legal for adults. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. We don't need a nanny state telling us what to do. If someone wants to engage in risky behavior that is their choice. If they want to fly a hang-glider or drink gasoline that's their problem. There will always be a few stupid people who try to destroy themselves, who are we to say they can't? Legal drugs equals safer drugs. No black market for drugs will practically eliminate drug related crime and organized crime.

 

[Fjones]

well i apologize for posting right off the top of my head that "it would be chaos if all drugs were legalized" or watever i said. i just posted wat i thought right away. i guess i didnt realize how serious some people take these threads... pffft lol

You didn't realize people take a thread about DRUG LEGALIZATION seriously?

......


really?

Some people here have been locked up for drugs or are going to be. Some people have or are addicted. Some people have lost loved ones to addiction or overdose.

But yeah, why would you think people would take this thread seriously.

Suggestion: Think before posting.

 

[Fjones]

i was gonna post my reasons but it looks like coolio and shambles did it for me, thx. also, the reason they made drugs illegal in the first place was not because they were bad for you and killing/addicting millions of ppl, it was b/c the white men were afraid of other races of men giving white women drugs and taking advantage/raping them, like the chinese for opium, mexican for cannabis, and blacks for cocaine. that is the main reason they decided to make drugs illegal. there is tons of evidence, for example, like coolio said, the many decades of legal acceptance in the netherlands to show the opposite of what you are saying. i would like to see ANY sort of evidence that agrees with what claire22 and sayanthing are saying.

Don't forget the anti-hippie movement, which had a lot to do with the overzealous persecution of users of LSD and other hallucinogens