Theories on DMT hyperspace

[indigoaura]

2CB is such a spiritual drug for me. Does not surprise me that it would reawaken things for someone.

 

[invert]

Nice post invert. I think the way you distinguished the two types of faith is pretty equivalent to the way I distinguished the 'antiquated methods of social cohesion...' and Faith. I think now that you have done so, we are pretty much in agreement.

I'm really glad you've found the more evolved form of Faith. It sounds like the 2c-b really broke you open wonderfully. I think, though you may not be ready to hear this, that this direct apprehension of the divine might move you away from your atheism. No atheist is truly rebelling against God, that's impossible, they are rebelling against social institutions and faulty mental constructs, which is just fine. With direct apprehension of God, the confusion of God with the human institutions of God tends to not happen any more.

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. But, as an atheist, I don't think I'm rebelling against anything, neither a god (or gods) nor the social institutions of religion. I just don't have any belief in anything that could easily be described as deity (or supernatural). If you would call the mental state I dipped into during my 2C-B trip a state of (or approaching) apprehension of the divine, fair enough; but as I use the terms 'divine' and 'god', this had nothing to do with the existence of such things.

More precisely: This experience is, for me, evidence of a certain sort of mental state being capable of existing within my brain. It's fascinating, and strange, and I still need to think about it more. But the fact of me having this experience is not (on the face of it) evidence for anything outside my brain. If this inner state is what you call 'God', then I guess we have little disagreement except over terminology: to me, it would seem an odd use of the word (although I'm reminded of Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind; although actually, his proposition for the origin of gods is converse to my experience of wordlessness, since gods were - in his model - the origin of conscious worded thought before people started to consider the words to be themselves; or, to put it another way, before the gods took full-time control of the minds). But if you would tell me I was experiencing some real thing external to myself, then I disagree (it's conceivable, but there's no reason to think it is so).

 

[Shakti]

I don't think I'm rebelling against anything, neither a god (or gods) nor the social institutions of religion. I just don't have any belief in anything that could easily be described as deity (or supernatural).

That's fine, but it seems closer to what is normally called agnostic to me. IME most atheists are just as dogmatic and closed minded as the religious, but this doesn't seem like you.

If this inner state is what you call 'God', then I guess we have little disagreement except over terminology

Well, that's close to what I consider god and I do suspect our difference is largely semantic. In general, I guess I am a pantheist, but I'm more concerned about the direct experience and understanding of God. In short, radical recognition or reality.

But if you would tell me I was experiencing some real thing external to myself, then I disagree (it's conceivable, but there's no reason to think it is so).

I would not say that. In fact I would say you were experiencing something closer to your true self. This statement in particular makes me believe this.

his quiet, unquestioning state, with every atom of my body, every pattern of my mind trying to align itself to the wordless, wonderful, terrifying '...'

Many people might call this self realization, for you are that 'wordless, wonderful, terrifying' ineffable, yet obvious something that 2c-b helped point out to you.

 

[invert]

That's fine, but it seems closer to what is normally called agnostic to me. IME most atheists are just as dogmatic and closed minded as the religious, but this doesn't seem like you.

You could say I'm agnostic... but I find myself in agreement with Richard Dawkins when he says that he's agnostic about the existence of a god in much the same way he's agnostic about the existence of a teapot orbiting the sun between the orbits of Mercury and Venus. It's conceivable, but there's no good evidence to suggest that it is so. So, practically, I am an atheist. Some atheists are closed minded; some religious are open-minded. There's nothing inherently closedminded about atheism (in the sense that I am atheist, and indeed Dawkins too, i.e. non-dogmatic, striving for open-minded consideration of evidence, and unwilling to commit passionately to beliefs about reality that have no basis in evidence); on the contrary, it is more consistent with open-minded apprehension of the world than the closedmindedness that I think is likely to be typical of a faith-based mind: if one trusts one's untested intuitions so utterly (as in faith), one is likely, I think, to have more difficulty accepting new evidence from outside oneself.

Well, that's close to what I consider god and I do suspect our difference is largely semantic. In general, I guess I am a pantheist, but I'm more concerned about the direct experience and understanding of God. In short, radical recognition or reality.

Ah, interesting... I have some sympathy with pantheism (as does Dawkins, to an extent: I think he called it 'like atheism, but sexier'). Quite a lot actually. Ever read Olaf Stapledon (e.g. Starmaker)?

I would not say that. In fact I would say you were experiencing something closer to your true self. This statement in particular makes me believe this.

Ha! I like the way you think.

Many people might call this self realization, for you are that 'wordless, wonderful, terrifying' ineffable, yet obvious something that 2c-b helped point out to you.

I think we do basically mostly agree. *nods*

 

[Shakti]

The major problem with the Dawkins breed of atheism is that it fails to recognize that there are conceptions of God other than the mythic 'man in the sky'. He's generally correct in his critique of those notions of god, but doesn't for the life of him seem to understand something along the lines of 'timeless eternal being' or why such a thing would be important to people. And TBH I find that he gives tolerance its due lip service, but I've seen some videos of him that were very unflattering and just underneath the surface he believes he is just so obviously correct IMO.

Also, I've spent a fair amount of time arguing on dawkin's website with his acolytes and tolerance is not their agenda. They seem fed up with God and anyone who would believe in him. But begin a rational argument with them and they still try the same arguments with you that they would a mythic believer type. So needless to say, I out thought them and frustrated them because I didn't fit into their box of what a 'believer' was. That is the only god they know, perhaps they need to be God first, then they would understand.

If you'd like to read some of my post on there, my screen name was I-I.

I haven't read Olaf Stapledon, haven't heard of him tbh. I dig good science fiction though.

Edit: i noticed a typo. That was supposed to be radical recognition of reality, not or

Also, I'm not that down on dawkins, he mostly does good work, but he doesn't know where his authority ends.

 

[invert]

The major problem with the Dawkins breed of atheism is that it fails to recognize that there are conceptions of God other than the mythic 'man in the sky'. He's generally correct in his critique of those notions of god, but doesn't for the life of him seem to understand something along the lines of 'timeless eternal being' or why such a thing would be important to people. And TBH I find that he gives tolerance its due lip service, but I've seen some videos of him that were very unflattering and just underneath the surface he believes he is just so obviously correct IMO.

Also, I've spent a fair amount of time arguing on dawkin's website with his acolytes and tolerance is not their agenda. They seem fed up with God and anyone who would believe in him. But begin a rational argument with them and they still try the same arguments with you that they would a mythic believer type. So needless to say, I out thought them and frustrated them because I didn't fit into their box of what a 'believer' was. That is the only god they know, perhaps they need to be God first, then they would understand.

If you'd like to read some of my post on there, my screen name was I-I.

I don't know about the people on Dawkins' website, not having been there, but Dawkins himself is quite careful to distinguish between mythic God-believers and pantheists like yourself. He says his quarrel is with the former (much more common in modern western societies, and in the world as a whole), not with the latter. As I said, he has expressed some sympathy with pantheism.

I haven't read Olaf Stapledon, haven't heard of him tbh. I dig good science fiction though.

Oh, I think you might like him. He didn't realize he was writing sci-fi, though to a modern reader he clearly was. He was a marxist historian, but I suspect most marxists wouldn't approve of him, as he is also quite pantheist and mystical. Starmaker is a (fictional, of course) 'history' of consciousness in the universe from its early awakenings to eventually a fully conscious universe.

 

[Shakti]

Well, I'm glad dawkins does make such distinctions. Olaf sounds pretty cool. I'll check him out.

 

[nanobrain]

Dawkins is a wanker i reckon, and i told him so in not so many words in person. i reckon anyone who thinks that a fully functioning stereoscopic visual cortex can evolve from naught in only 4E8 years due to natural selection alone has not smoked enough DMT period.

 

[invert]

i reckon anyone who thinks that a fully functioning stereoscopic visual cortex can evolve from naught in only 4E8 years due to natural selection alone has not smoked enough DMT period.

What's your reasoning for suggesting that natural selection is insufficient to explain the stereoscopic visual cortex?

 

[ampd]

After getting a hold of a gram of 2C-E over winter break...I have to say I did go on a bunch of trips over the next couple weeks with a bunch of different people and also some solo...Coming off of this slight...binge...I feel like my vibrational frequency has risen substantially.

It's as if I'm viewing the world from another perspective and it really is truly beautiful. I noticed this a few days before my candyflip and also my first time trying LSD, which happened to be last Friday. I definitely feel like change is going on and it feels so great to be happening.

I have reason to believe that psychedelics help boost your frequency at a higher rate where you can actually feel and see the results...

That's why so many people who claim to have HPPD are seeing auras, etc.

Also, a friend of mine told me he was able to see auras on 2C-E as well, so I guess it's not just 2C-B...I'll be tripping on a high dose of 2C-E ~30mg and possibly rolling with it as well, and I'm going to look more into seeings auras and such...

PLUR

 

[invert]

May I ask what vibrational frequency means in this context, ampd? I've had strongly vibrational experiences (physically; conceptually; perceptually) on both 2C-E and 2C-C particularly; but I'm not sure what you mean by vibrational frequency or how you tell that it has risen or lowered.

 

[Wayne Gale]

Dawkins is a wanker i reckon, and i told him so in not so many words in person. i reckon anyone who thinks that a fully functioning stereoscopic visual cortex can evolve from naught in only 4E8 years due to natural selection alone has not smoked enough DMT period.

What do you mean from nought? What about the time it took to create a planet capable of producing of life, or the time it took to create a universe capable of creating that planet, or the time it took to create a reality capable of creating said universe. It took a lot longer than 4E8 years.

 

[ampd]

May I ask what vibrational frequency means in this context, ampd? I've had strongly vibrational experiences (physically; conceptually; perceptually) on both 2C-E and 2C-C particularly; but I'm not sure what you mean by vibrational frequency or how you tell that it has risen or lowered.

By vibrational frequency I mean the rate by which the molecules of an object move at..

Every material thing - every person, animal, rock and tree on the earth, even Mother Earth herself - has its own natural resonating frequency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_vibration
http://www.experiencefestival.com/vibrational_frequency

I say that it has risen because of the fact that it really can't fall...it will continue to rise in everything thus contributing to everything else...
I can feel the changes in my body and my perception of the world is much different than six months ago...

 

[invert]

By vibrational frequency I mean the rate by which the molecules of an object move at..




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_vibration
http://www.experiencefestival.com/vibrational_frequency

I say that it has risen because of the fact that it really can't fall...it will continue to rise in everything thus contributing to everything else...
I can feel the changes in my body and my perception of the world is much different than six months ago...

Gosh, thanks for the reply. Sounds jolly interesting, though I confess I still don't understand how you could sense such changes, or what would cause such changes. Can you say what sort of changes you've felt that you believe are due to changes in vibrational frequency, and why you think they are due to it?

 

[indigoaura]

Vibrational Frequency

This is my non-scientific answer regarding vibrational frequency.

I first read about it as it relates to binaural beats. From what I read at the time, binaural beats can alter the vibrational frequency of the mind and induce altered states of consciousness.

I continued to encounter the concept of vibrational frequency while pursuing meditation techniques to achieve out of body experiences.

I personally notice a physical vibrational change (as in I can physically feel it) when in a hypnagogic or hypnopompic state practicing meditation techniques.

I have noticed the same physical change when on 2CB.

My personal observations of vibrational frequency are that it can be noticably altered through meditation, binaural beats, or drugs. I can physically feel the change, at some points more than others.

I know the concept of vibrational frequency is used a lot in new age circles. Everyone has their own take on it. As I have said in other threads, take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[invert]

Vibrational Frequency

This is my non-scientific answer regarding vibrational frequency.

I first read about it as it relates to binaural beats. From what I read at the time, binaural beats can alter the vibrational frequency of the mind and induce altered states of consciousness.

I continued to encounter the concept of vibrational frequency while pursuing meditation techniques to achieve out of body experiences.

I personally notice a physical vibrational change (as in I can physically feel it) when in a hypnagogic or hypnopompic state practicing meditation techniques.

I have noticed the same physical change when on 2CB.

My personal observations of vibrational frequency are that it can be noticably altered through meditation, binaural beats, or drugs. I can physically feel the change, at some points more than others.

I know the concept of vibrational frequency is used a lot in new age circles. Everyone has their own take on it. As I have said in other threads, take it all with a grain of salt.

Thanks for this... I'm intrigued by this concept because I've had notably vibration-focused experiences (physically vibrating; but also focused conceptually on vibration; and with - on some occasions - all my senses merging into one seeming sense of vibration) on psychedelics on a few occasions, and the idea of the importance of vibration has imposed itself on me during these experiences quite powerfully (with 2C-C and 2C-E specifically; with 2C-B there appears for me to be rather more of a focus on alignment than vibration, but I don't have enough experiences with it yet to know if this is consistent across trips for me).

One question (for the moment)... this thing about binaural beats modifying the vibrational frequency of the mind... can I check whether this means something to do with molecular vibration (as per ampd's definition of vibrational frequency) or instead to do with the oscillations of neuronal firing in the brain [or something else entirely?]? If the latter, one would certainly expect altered states of consciousness, since our brain function and mental state are clearly dependent on the frequencies of the oscillations in our brain (among other things, naturally). If the former, I'm not sure what the link between molecular vibration and mental states would be.

 

[indigoaura]

Invert, I wish I had read up on this subject matter more recently and that it was fresh for me, but it has been a while since I seriously studied it.

Hemi Sync is the name of the product that I used for binaural beats:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi-Sync
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats

Q: What is Hemi-Sync®?
A: Hemi-Sync® is demonstrated in a simple way by placing a steady tone in one ear, then a different steady tone in the other ear. As these different tones are blended together in the brain, the binaural beat or wavering sound you hear is a brain-produced phenomenon. Such signals can stimulate specific states of consciousness, which are automatically learned and can then be recreated from memory.

http://www.monroeinstitute.com/content.php?content_id=35

I have read several books about it. It is my understanding, from what I have read, that the binaural beats do in fact alter brain waves, beyond that, I do not recall. I recall that it has been used in hospital settings as an alternative anesthesia.

My understanding of vibrational frequency is mostly experience based. I am the type of person who reads all kinds of crazy things, and entertains a lot of ideas but I come to believe things based on experience.

The binaural beat products were extremely interesting. On several occasions, I reached a state that included audial hallucinations & visions. I began achieving similar states without the tapes shortly thereafter through meditation and through focus before and after sleep.

The next time you experience a trip that seems focused on vibrations, try to change the vibrations. Try to focus on them, and also try to focus away from them. When I have achieved an out of body experience, the vibrations become VERY intense prior to separation. Intentionally trying to become one with, or push past the vibrations during a trip has created some very interesting experiences for me.

Also, do you ever find yourself awake in the middle of the night after a dream or because of a noise? This is a really good time to try to tune into those vibrations, because they are different and noticable.

I only have experience with 2CB out of the various 2C drugs. If 2C-C and 2C-E place a higher focus on the vibrational state I may have to experiment with those as well.

 

[Shakti]

Binaural beats are really fun. I had a program to make them with a while ago. My understanding of how they work is by introducing two wave patterns, one to each ear, that are just slightly off from each other. This forces our mind to create a synthetic wave from their constructive and destructive interference. Thus we are hearing something that we are creating with our mind.

Correlating the synthetic wave patterns with specific frequencies of different states of consciousness is where its at. By meditating on these waves, and understanding the state that such a vibration produces, one can get a little more direct control on ones mind and direct it into deeper/higher states with a little more ease.

Theta wave are generally associated with dream type states. Delta waves are generally correlated with deep sleep, formless type states.

 

[nanobrain]

everything vibrates. for example, i am a high frequency vibrator ;-)

btw, the predom color experienced with DMT is a spot-on indicator around which chakra the individual construes his 'reality' aka where he be thinkin outa...

 

[B9]

So please tell me which colour designates which reality ?

Not sarcasm - I have time for vibes & whatnot