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Theories on DMT hyperspace

when i start thinking alien elves have put themselves inside my drugs, that is when i will stop.
 
Shakti said:
Everything is not science. You simply concieve of everything as science. The map is not the territory. If you haven't heard that before, or understood it, it's time.
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I think everything is science. Stalemate. I can't prove you to be wrong and neither can you prove me to be wrong.
 
I agree with Cloudy.

Sorry, but you're not going to gain awareness of new alien dimensions by smoking DMT. Sure, it's an intense experience, but at the end of the day, you're artificially stimulating your brain with a drug molecule. No different from any other drug. And to suggest that aliens placed it on Earth? Ridiculous. Dimethyltryptamine is a fairly simple biomolecule and appears as a secondary metabolite and neurotransmitter in numerous plants and animals. That's like suggesting that aliens gave us alcohol.
 
[meant for Cloudy :)]

^I don't know anything about you, Cloudy, but my guess is that you might have never formally studied a scientific discipline in a university environment. I'm only saying this because it would be very hard to do so and retain the point of view that you have. The whole point of science is a direct acknowledgment of the fact that everything is not science. All scientific theories are tentative, they're simply the most accurate model we currently have to help us understand some type of phenomenon. When science "proves" something, they're not saying "this is the way it is!", they're saying "this is currently the most empirically accurate explanation we have for what is going on." Those are two entirely different concepts.

"Science" is just a method for ordering concepts and phenomena, reality isn't science any more than a story is the paper its printed on.
 
Cloudy said:
I think everything is science. Stalemate. I can't prove you to be wrong and neither can you prove me to be wrong.
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what does this statement mean? Everything is certainly not science. Are you a full rational and reasonable person? I question that if you stubbornly claim the entirety of reality is science :D
 
Roger&Me said:
[meant for Cloudy :)]

^I don't know anything about you, Cloudy, but my guess is that you might have never formally studied a scientific discipline in a university environment. I'm only saying this because it would be very hard to do so and retain the point of view that you have. The whole point of science is a direct acknowledgment of the fact that everything is not science. All scientific theories are tentative, they're simply the most accurate model we currently have to help us understand some type of phenomenon. When science "proves" something, they're not saying "this is the way it is!", they're saying "this is currently the most empirically accurate explanation we have for what is going on." Those are two entirely different concepts.

"Science" is just a method for ordering concepts and phenomena, reality isn't science any more than a story is the paper its printed on.
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I actually am a chem major at a university. I 100% agree with "this is currently the most empirically accurate explanation we have for what is going on."

I'm not saying what we know is right. Humans are incapable of having a full understanding of the universe and we use the knowledge that we know to formulate the best idea of the universe that we can. Our knowledge is ever changing and so is our understanding, but this does not mean that there is some higher divinity or something other than science. It just means humans are not all powerful and not all knowing.

This is the definition of science I'm using. "A branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws."

Basically I believe that everything in the universe can be explained via laws. We have a limited view of these laws and our understanding is ever changing due to new knowledge, but the fact remains that there are laws in existence that controls everything whether or not we see it or even understand it.
 
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Gaian Planes said:
what does this statement mean? Everything is certainly not science. Are you a full rational and reasonable person? I question that if you stubbornly claim the entirety of reality is science :D
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I'm saying I can not prove that I'm right nor can he prove he is right, hence a stalemate. Humans have a hard enough time proving the knowledge we have is correct since it is constantly growing and changing. No matter how much we know or how little we know doesn't change the fact that their is something (whether you believe in a higher power or not) out there that explains every happening in this universe.
 
I don't remember any massive fluxes in my consciousness the last time I walked past a large magnet.
 
in the strongest dmt expereince i had an entity named mubalu helped me teach myself that the answer to all of these questions we have is that "it does not matter". simple as that. millions of little dmt entities started cheering afterwords.
 
Basically I believe that everything in the universe can be explained via laws. We have a limited view of these laws and our understanding is ever changing due to new knowledge, but the fact remains that there are laws in existence that controls everything whether or not we see it or even understand it.
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This seems to be the case. But the simple fact of the matter is that our mind constructs those rules as best we can and you choose to call that science. When you say everything is science you're putting the cart before the horse. Science arose the as a product of everything else, not the other way around. Was there science before man? No. Therefore, yeah I did just prove you're wrong. If you choose to recognize that, or not, is up to you.
No matter how much we know or how little we know doesn't change the fact that their is something (whether you believe in a higher power or not) out there that explains every happening in this universe.
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No one but my very self has explained "everything" to me yet. There is no god that will come and tell you all the answers. IDK why the fuck you try and ascribe that quality to science, science says, "thanks but no thanks."
 
Drugs are chemicals that alter your normal body functions. Nothing more. Everything dealing with these chemicals can be explained scientifically whether we have or not.
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yes
and all the time, our body functions are regulated by chemicals

different metabolisms are regulated differently and react differently

many animals for instance can smell and hear things that we don't

because we don't notice these sound waves, does that mean that they are not here?
or just that we are extremely limited in our perception of "what is really here"?

is the screen in front of you real?
or is it in fact 99.999999999999% of empty space with some weird particles, existing through their wave functions, making you believe that the screen is full of matter?


i'm certainly not falling easily for the fancy theories

but you should not forget that everything we take for granted is only a very subjective interpretation of the little amount of "reality" we have access to

and that "our reality" is in no way more objective than any other interpretation of the universe ; even interpretations that no living beings actually experience, but could just potentially exist


in other words : we know nothing, so let's not be arrogant when rejecting far-fetched interpretations

science has taught us better than that

where would science be today if people hadn't brought forward ideas that others first considered absolutely ridiculous?

everything in science today is based on facts that we "know" are true, but can only explain to a certain degree, after which we just have to accept our ignorance

i also like the quote "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" a lot

it could settle the different between the "i want to believe" and the "scientific" arguers

i hardly understand how the word "paranormal" first appeared
there is no "paranormal"
if it exists, it's "normal"
just not understood yet

it would be like saying that homosexuality is unatural
well, look in the nature around you. what do you see? homosexuality. so pretty obviously it's natural. deviant or whatever if you want, but natural

an easy example of the "magic of advanced science" would be intertwined particles
can you think of many things more "magic" than that?
yet it's not magic. it is a fact of our universe
our understanding is just not advanced enough to explain it


i haven't given much thought to the case of the dmt elves (no pro a prioris, my usual sceptism ; but won't shut my ears either) and i'm too tired to do it now

but just for fun, think about this :
even if those elves are imagined, your brain has to change connections (and stuff..) in order to make them appear to your consciousness
that means that they have a physical reality in the form of a different arrangement of chemicals in your brain

-> they do have a physical reality, although on a different level than the one we think of in every days' life
 
ps : i didn't read the whole thread. sorry if i'm being redudant or off-track
 
Shakti said:
This seems to be the case. But the simple fact of the matter is that our mind constructs those rules as best we can and you choose to call that science. When you say everything is science you're putting the cart before the horse. Science arose the as a product of everything else, not the other way around. Was there science before man? No. Therefore, yeah I did just prove you're wrong. If you choose to recognize that, or not, is up to you.


No one but my very self has explained "everything" to me yet. There is no god that will come and tell you all the answers. IDK why the fuck you try and ascribe that quality to science, science says, "thanks but no thanks."
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You clearly don't know understand anything I've said.

The linguistic term science clearly came after humans, but these laws that govern the universe have been around since the being or forever depending on how the universe came about. So even as humans will disappear these laws that govern everyone will continue to exist.

Also I never said our knowledge of science will tell us all the answers the life. Once again just because humans can't and will never know how the universe functions doesn't mean it doesn't function in specific ways.
 
I do understand what you've written. Most of it is ok. This is what I take issue with.

You've failed to differentiate adequately between concept and reality. i.e. "everything is science." Also, you seem to have a tendancy to elevate science to some absolute authority.

You say everything follows laws, seen or unseen. Yet the very fact that there is "everything," that form arose from emptiness, that the big bang happened, or how ever else you want to conceptualize it, is, in and of its self, in defiance of the notion of laws. Science deals with materials and associated occurrences. This is not its territory. Its laws don't apply.

I want to talk about this again.
No matter how much we know or how little we know doesn't change the fact that their is something (whether you believe in a higher power or not) out there that explains every happening in this universe.
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There is nothing that can account for all of reality except reality itself. To say that there is, is to say there is something that stands out separate from reality. If you believe that then you're not dealing with all of reality. Account for that which accounts for all of reality. Go on please do...

Oh and I'm sorry that this has gone on such a tangent away from DMT.
 
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wungchow said:
I agree with Cloudy.

Sorry, but you're not going to gain awareness of new alien dimensions by smoking DMT. Sure, it's an intense experience, but at the end of the day, you're artificially stimulating your brain with a drug molecule. No different from any other drug. And to suggest that aliens placed it on Earth? Ridiculous. Dimethyltryptamine is a fairly simple biomolecule and appears as a secondary metabolite and neurotransmitter in numerous plants and animals. That's like suggesting that aliens gave us alcohol.
Click to expand...

I am going to differ on you completely. there are endless possibilities to who came to this planet, how they came to planet, or why they came to this planet before recorded history. what gives humans the right to definitively say that before their sensual understanding of the universe (when humans were first roaming the earth) could provide a truthful window into the past. the past is littered with questions that humans will probe for eternity in the present moment. dmt exists in almost every ecosystem on the planet and it is clear that whether we know it or not, that its inherent existence within the natural community of the planet is necessary for the balance of life. now how did life begin on this planet? what installed or began "consciousness" within living life? what is it behind the masking of our minds that drives our instincts and undeniable strive for to reproduce and to probe for questions as well as answers? I would not find it ridiculous at all to believe that dmt came from somewhere else. how could you possibly say that it was not? just because it is simple does not mean that aliens did not bring it here. i find it close minded to approach something that is so unexplainable to the human experience and science with a definitive answer. you have no idea. i have no idea. everything that started life on this planet could have come from somewhere else

what always trips me out is that alien intelligences (which could be billions of years (why not trillions if you entertain the ideals of quantum physics)) could have came here 4,000 years ago, done some shit and left without anything or anyone to document their arrival or leaving. how would we ever fucking know?
 
has anybody done any sort of follow up on the whole Synchronized Hyperspace Experiment that went down a couple months ago? I know a lot of people didn't break through and I thought that was interesting.

//It seems like most of the experiments thus far in testing the nature of the tryptamine realms has only resulted in anecdotal data. We should be working on better experimental designs and protocols to see weather DMT hyperspace is an experience that's emanating from within the brain/nervous system or whether there is any external component involved...Can't really rely on trip reports that say "but it felt so real maaan"
 
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