PEA: In absense of MAO, DARI or Releaser?

[Ham-milton]

Okay, now back to my original question before we were so rudely sidetracked:

is it primarily a releaser or a DARI?

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

it is technically a Trace Amine and in most aspect closer to primarily being a releaser, though in a less 'agressive' manner than AMPH/MA

 

[negrogesic]

Again, it appears to act like amphetamine, in that it plays an inhibitory role while at the same time causing a release of dopamine.

Thus, trace amines, such as -PEA, directly cause an increase in somatodendritic DA release in the VTA. It seems likely that the inhibition of spontaneous dopaminergic neuron activity by -PEA is due to an increased release of DA in the VTA caused by -PEA. In addition, the -PEA-induced increase in DA release was completely independent of extracellular calcium ions. -PEA stimulates in an amphetamine-like manner, causing a Ca2+-independent carrier-mediated efflux of DA from the somatodendritic dopaminergic neurons in the VTA. Taken together, the results of the present and previous studies suggest that effects of -PEA on DA release are Ca2+-independent and result from a newly synthesized DA from dopaminergic somatodendrites in the VTA.

Edit: whoops, bad link:
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/314/2/916

 

[Riemann Zeta]

Substrate, hence releaser in high enough concentrations.

 

[Jabberwocky]

if you IVed this substance at a high enough dose would the high feel like IV amphetamine?

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

similar, but not identical...

 

[Jabberwocky]

is that just a guess of yours or do you have any reports from peeps trying this (I could only find shulgin's which was apparently way too low a dose to do anything)?

A difference in physical mechanisms/drug need not necessitate a difference in felt subjective experience.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

Even via IV admin (which is never something I'd recommend), phenethylamine would need an MAOI have significant activity.

 

[nuke]

is that just a guess of yours or do you have any reports from peeps trying this (I could only find shulgin's which was apparently way too low a dose to do anything)?

A difference in physical mechanisms/drug need not necessitate a difference in felt subjective experience.

There was a poster at a bodybuilding forum I can't find right now who said the dose without an MAOI was good at 1-2g, but at 4g he threw up everywhere and got very sick for a few hours, without any sort of psychedelic effect mentioned. It seems active, but not like it's a lot of fun..

 

[negrogesic]

According the article i posted earlier, the squirrel monkeys needed 30mg/kg, and this only sometimes replaced methamphetamine.

Anyone want to IV 2+ grams and find out...

 

[Ham-milton]

Yikes, you'd need one hell of a rig to get 2 grams of that shit in.

 

[Xorkoth]

I was going to test the oral dosing effectiveness of PEA, but I lost the PEA I purchased last year. Ah, well... NeuronalPerception has been trying to spread this "information" all around the web, clearly to increase sales at his online shop(s), but it does seem that there are reports coming in from all over the place, so it interests me. I'd love to find the 5 grams I have somewhere and give it a go.

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

i will 'fund a study'

anyone who wants to be involved hit me up...US only ....

 

[Ham-milton]

I would imagine that 5g would yeild some effect, I can't imagine that it wouldn't.

I would imagine that the same is true for DMT, though there's only one MAO type to get that (whereas MAO-A can get PEA as well, right?)

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

No MAOB only, DA is deaminated by both

 

[negrogesic]

Hmmm, evidently the kavalactones are able to inhibit MAO-B:

Kava-kava, a psychoactive beverage, induces relaxation, improves social interaction, promotes sleep and plays an important role in the sociocultural life in the islands of the South Pacific. On the other hand, standardized extracts of kava-kava roots are used for the therapy of anxiety, tension and restlessness. Kava pyrones, the major constituents of kava kava, are generally considered to be responsible for the pharmacological activity in humans and animals. To obtain more information on the mechanisms by which kava-kava exerts psychotropic properties we investigated the in vitro effects of kava-kava extract and pure synthetic kava pyrones on human platelet MAO-B, in comparison to amitriptyline, imipramine and brofaromine. Kava-kava extract was found to be a reversible inhibitor of MAO-B in intact platelets (IC50 24 microM) and disrupted platelet homogenates (IC50 1.2 microM). Structural differences of kava pyrones resulted in a different potency of MAO-B inhibition. The order of potency was desmethoxyyangonin > (+/-)-methysticin > yangonin > (+/-)-dihydromethysticin > (+/-)- dihydrokavain > (+/-)-kavain. The two most potent kava pyrones, desmethoxyyangonin and (+/-)-methysticin displayed a competetive inhibition pattern with mean Ki 0.28 microM and 1.14 microM respectively. The inhibition of MAO-B by kava pyrone-enriched extracts might be an important mechanism for their psychotropic activity.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9832350

 

[Ham-milton]

Interesting. I wonder if perhaps this may have been the reason I had such horrible experiences on Kava, I would have been on a daily amphetamine regimin at the time.

Although I don't know that puking blood is a hypertensive crisis symptom..

 

[fastandbulbous]

Do you have any basis for why PEA would not reach the brain if give at a high enough dose?

Because there's a good chance you get into the realms of toxicity (possibly even LD50) before you saturate the enzyme(s) responsible for it's destruction. About the only drug I can think of that saturates it metabolic enzyme without severe toxicity or worse is ethanol & it requires something like 8ml per hour to keep all of the alcohol dehydrogenase tied up (8ml is 'only' a half pint of 3% beer you might think, but aprox 7g of alcohol is one hell of a lot of molecules. If PEA was the same and required the same number of molecules present as occurs with alcohol to saturate the enzyme, then this would require about 3x the weight of alcohol, ie about 21g of PEA & that is foolheardy to try.because it has pressor activity in vivo and I'd bet 21g of PEA would put your blood pressure through the roof...


So, techically it is possible for PEA to reach the brain without knocking out the MAO isoforms, what's the point if they are in A&E (or worse the morgue) because your brain exploded due to the high blood pressure form consuming a shitload of PEA (whatever else ethabol

 

[NeuronalPerception]

experiences

Some reports:

Sunday 06/15/08 Day 1 off Day
I took 2 caps(1000mg) on an empty somach.
The main thing I have noticed so far was that I was feeling great all day.Also
I noticed that I felt calmer all day too.Tomorrow will be my first workout on PEA.

Monday 06/16/08 Day 2
I took 2 caps again before I lifted.Tomorrow I will up the dose to 3 caps.
Notes:
First,I must say the focus was great.The mind muscle connection is outstanding.Another thing that stuck out today was that I seem to be in a happy mood all day and every little thing seemed to interest me.I can't wait to see what 3 caps does.

Tuesday 06/17/08 Day 3
today I took 3 caps and all I can say is WOW!I don't know how to explain it but its like like everything was great.For example colors seemed to be brighter and little things seem to amaze me.Nothing at all seemed to upset or bother me.It is like I can't get angry.Steve you are right 1.5 grams is the sweet spot.

Wednesday 06/18/08 Day 4
Doses-3 caps
Notes
Steve the feeling last for a good 6 hours.

Thursday 06/19/08 Day 5 Off Day
Dose 1 at 6am-3 caps
Dose 2 at 1pm-2 caps
Notes
Focus on PEA is outstanding.It seems that I pay more attention to details more then ever.For example I run a construction crew and today I made my painters do a lot more touchup work then usual.They even asked me what am I on because I never made them do so much extra work.I cannot wait to add Aniractam with the PEA.

I have never taken anything like PEA before.

Tuesday 06/24/08 Day 10 Off Day
Monday before bed I took 1 cap
tuesday-7am I took 2 grams=4 caps
Notes
1.Monday night-I had a crazy dream.Although I can't remember the dream.The dude that rents out my basement said he heard me yelling at someone.
2.Tuesday-Like I said I took 4 caps.After the nausea went away I felt a full body buzz for about 1 hour.After that again I felt happy and everything seemed to interest me.Is PEA the legal Ectasy?

Friday 06/27/08 Day 13
6am Dose PEA-1.5 grams+200mg caffeine
2pm-Dose 1.5 grams of PEA+200mg caffeine
Notes
Yes Steve 1.5 is the ideal dose.I am going to try 2.0 grams with caffeine on Monday.The thing I really like about PEA is that it really helps me concentrate for mind muscle connection.The other thing I like about it is that feel great.

Saturday 06/28/08 & Sunday 06/029/08 Days 14 & 15 Rest Days
No PEA taken.
Here is what I have noticed so far
Positive
1.PEA seems to put me in a great mood(euphoric) "All Day" gives when I dose it twice a day.
2.PEA enhances my concentration and that helps with mind muscle connection.
3.the euphoric feeling last about 4-6 hours.
4.If you combine PEA with caffeine you will love it.The energy and concentration is great.
5.1.5 grams is the "sweet spot" for me.

Wednesday Day 3 - 1,500mg
Decided to go with taking 1,500 mg in the morning on an empty stomach. In under an hour i could really feel the efffects and they were amazing. I felt like i diddnt have to worry about anything and had absolutly no stress at all. I felt like i was on drugs or something. This feeling was only temporary and diddnt last very long. After about an hour i had noticed i returned to a normal state of mind. I still however remained alert for the rest of the day. During my workout i felt like i never wanted to stop and had alot of confidence. Had alot of energy throught the day. Will do the same thing tomorrow

I have to say i love screwing around with these pills. I seem to block out any thoughts that add to stress when i take them. I am always in a great mood. I love that i get that buzzed, high kind of feeling without "partying". Ever since i started taking this i wanted to know what would happen if you popped some of these when you are drunk if you even smoked a cigarette.

I noticed that taking 3 caps did not have a noticeable effect on me. I decided to go with 4 caps (2,000 mg) in the morning and noticed a HUGE difference. I had a tingling feeling all over my body. I felt extremly happy and started to smile for no reason. I actually had to sit down for a minute to take in all those effects. I also noticed i randomly let out heavy breaths which freaked me out a little bit. I think my face may have turned a little red but i couldnt really noticed because i also have acne on my face. Like usual while taking PEA i had plenty of confidence during my workout. Thinking of spliting up the dose and doing 2 caps in the morning and 2 before bed

June 28, 2008
1:21 PM - The first user told me that he felt a pick me up after he got out of the shower. He said that his mind cleared up a little bit more than usual and that he "feels great!". I will get another reaction from him and then get another one later on at night.
1:23 PM - It has been a while since my dose and I can feel it working in my head. So far it has a similar feel to 5htp but the brain buzz feels higher! It is a very pronounced feeling at 1,000MG. I seem more alert and focused as well.

6:20PM - I was going to quit dosing PEA today but liked the effects so much earlier that I couldn't resist. :D Took in a 1.5g dose of PEA on empty stomach. Currently regaining the brain buzz that I noticed earlier in the day on my first dose.
Went in my yard and wanted to hit some golf balls. I haven't hit any in two weeks or so I thought it would be interesting to see how id do. Surprisingly I did very well and it seemed like my body and mind was able to focus in on swinging the club and hitting the ball better than ever. I will try this again later on in the week to rule out placebo effect.

heh yeah it is great... now that I think about I am going to be going golfing tomorrow so it will be a good chance to see how the PEA reacts to my golf play to see if what I experienced was a fluke or not.
6:45PM - Buzz still increasing and I believe its nearing the peak. The buzz in a way feels like all of my synapses in my brain firiing at the same time and I seem to be very alert. Will be nice to test out how PEA reacts when I start classes in the fall semester.
I would honestly compare the feeling that I have right now to a slight alcohol head buzz of a few drinks or beers but without the depressant effect. My heart beat is slightly up but nothing like VPX meltdown does to me.
omg i feel like im high as a kite, but its such a functional high! I feel some effects in my arms when I go to move them as well. When I move my head left and right I get a buzzzing sensation in my head. I feel like nothing can disturb my great mood...my body almost has a floating sensation followed by a heavy weight down then another floating sensation??? i also feel like my body is warming and I feel a lot of heat inside my brain.
id say this possibly could be a great substitute for alcohol use

June 29, 2008
11:53AM- Looks like 1.5g dose is the right amount for me. All of the effects that I experienced in my last posting is happening. I have an intense brain buzz that is similar to drinking but with more alertness. I feel high as a kite, but with a functional high, etc. Heart beat seems to be more increased than yesterday but nothing too unmanageable. I just got really hot and had to take my shirt off.
I took another 500mg cap to keep the effect going which is what I did yesterday. It is nice to see the same effects today as yesterday which would rule out any placebo oriented effects IMO.
I have only tried smoking pot a few times, but I can tell you that I like the PEA buzz way more than pot, and I am starting to like it more than alcohol as well...
cheers to PEA :D

2:10PM - Update I took 3 more pills 500mg and i am high as a kite.
I gave 2gram dose to my friend who has used hard drugs such as crack and cocaine about 30 mins ago. His first dose yesterday was 1 gram and he didnt feel much but....
This dose to him FELT INSANE... he compared to the last time he smoked crack... he got a little nervous, his face got red and hot similar to a niacin flush. At first he did not like it but in ten minutes the pain went away and he said he felt very highh....
I am also very high I took a 1.5 g dose followed by a 500mg pill 30 mins later earlier in the day and now my dose after his.
THIS IS VERY POTENT STUFF. I WOULD NOT RECOMMENED TO DRIVE IF YOU TAKE TOO MUCH PEA.
I have NEVER experienced anything like this in the world before. The feelings are unreal....

Last night I took a 1,000mg dose about 30mins before sleep and had some very vivid dreams... more vivid than usual (was quite fun :D). In one of them somehow I got into a fight with this guy on an elevator and overall was just doing weird stuff. There was about 3-4 vivid dreams that I remembered last night but usually when I sleep I may only remember 1-2.

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa
Umm.. I feel HIGH right now. LIke I said before I have taken a lot of things in my life.. and I really feel extremely disoriented. LIke dizzy, hard to focus, kinda trippin out kind of a thing.. @ work by myself so its a little interesting. I think 1500 mg is a little too much for me. I took 3 caps adrenalean this morning so maybe thats part of it.. ill give an update later..
SOooo yeah, wtf!!! lol. its time for me to get off work, and i am honestly afraid to drive. Wasn't expecting this!
Just figured it out... this kind of gives me an "adderall like" effect minus the sharpness/speediness adderall provides. Maybe this plus caffeine would be a good replicant

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ These are anecdotal responses, so putting it in a way reminiscent of something from a peer reviewed journal is a bit ingenuous - look at how many testimonials are given for penis enlargement systems, yet we all know that they're porkies as all the peer reviewed literature surrounding penis enlargement dismisses them as a work of fiction to prey on the insecure.

Provide just one peer reviewed article to back your claims & we'll all eat humble pie & stop with the criticism (unless someone finds another such article that states the opposite, but at least them we have a legitimate debate), but until then it's just a case of saying the same thing over & over again in an effort to bludgeon us into believing (which ain't going to happen considering the cynical piss-taking sarcastic bastards that inhabit ADD! ). After all, I'm sure if I tried I could find 20 people who claim to have been stoned from smoking dried banana skins...