Benzos Benzo long-term regular/sporaric use - lack of withdrawal?

[Dextro .45]

So ya, I posted a similar thread like this a few years ago….and now an update.

Very interesting & strange. I’ve been taking long term benzodiazepine compounds for like 15-20 years and no real significant withdrawal that would take me out of work, like my major opioid withdrawal 15 years back (2 weeks of hell).

So I started off Etizolam 5,000mg & Deschloroetizolam 2,000mg taken over 3-5 years - all in appropriate therapeutic doses, not daily every week, month….but used in a therapeutic cocktail when needed, like Etizolam 0.5 - 1mg three times a week

I’ve had large quantities of Avizafone (Pro-Diazepam) 40-50 grams IM injection- all over a year let’s say ….each dose Avizafone 60-80mg (Valium 30-40mg) which has a significantly higher peak serum level and faster 0.5h Aviz vs 1.5h Diaz. …upon cessation I really didn’t experience any significant uncomfortable feelings….like, at all? Freakin strange. …..Not complaining at all lol, as Benzo & Ethanol withdrawal is actually the worst and can be deadly

I’ve had the super long acting Diclazepam (2-Chloro Diazepam) 1-3mg PG solution…..regular dose 3mg every few days, I had 1,500mg about 5 years ago roughly…..was out over a year ago….so let’s say 1,500mg over 2-3 years of regular therapeutic dose, and even months after cessation/running out never experienced any uncomfortable feelings

However…..I DID experience mild symptoms which I attributed to benzodiazepine usage…..a month ago for a week, I had super mild muscle jolts while sleeping, 3 days of horrid insomnia (which I took Trazolam 50mg, Clonidine 0.1mg, Zopliclone 7.5mg half) took night cocktail for few days, Wow amazing sleep cocktail for short term.

During this 2-3 days of insomnia….my work day was fucked, cognitive impairment, forgetting shit, messing up client orders, etc…..and night sleeping was brain wide awake ….after the 3rd night I said Fck this, and took that 3-shot combo and slept like a a baby …..took for a week and cut dose in half, then tapered off with half a Clonidine & Trazadone…now nothing

So it’s been 10-14 days now with absolutely nothing……and I feel completely normal. Is this normal? If it were opioids I’d be fuuuuucked. As I take 100-125 Methadone daily, and pick up every month 100 tablet sealed bottle and surplus tablets …..even a full 24h without I will know, 2-3 days would be very uneasy, and 3-7 days I’d need serious help.



How could I be relatively fine….to completely fine ?

About 2 full weeks and no benzodiazepine what so ever…..mind you, today I will be receiving Lorazepam 1mg tablets which am excited about, but I don’t NEED them. I want them lol…..but I COULD go without. Definitely not me with opioids. If I had no Methadone for even 2 days I’d bite the bullet financially and acquire a shit load of Hydromorphone and pulverize for oral syringe up the wooyaa

Very purplexing….Im very glad mind you…..just scratching my head. All my dosing is smartly taken therapeutic dosing…however this 3-4 days weekly, nightly…..some times larger doses for relaxation fun, but always aware of use and being mindful to space out and decrease dose, frequency….then ramp up again, then wean down a bit….I was administering robust doses of water soluble Valium 40mg …..well over 40,000 mg (probably 60-70k max) and more than a month after I was perfectly fine. Significant factor - most are long acting benzo with multiple active metabolites which slowly taper off after 3-6 days (like regular Diazepam and especially Diclazepam…even Avizafone).


I gather then….taking long term benzodiazepine therapy CAN be safely done, in responsible therapeutic doses, spaced over (Not high daily dosing Every day, Every month & year) but regular spaced out sporadic therapeutic dose when needed, and being mindful to ease up every so often?

Anyone also taken long-tern benzodiazepine therapy (in appropriate therapeutic doses) and be relatively ok? Not sweating in WD and thinking about Benzo’s all the time, etc but just normal functional persons, working, family, fun, etc while having a vault full of benzodiazepine, opioids, stimulants, etc, etc

 

[OverTheGardenWall]

I'm no expert or anything, but I experience a similar thing with Nicotine. I was using Tobacco pouches (dip, snus, whatever) daily for over 10 years and when I quit recently I had no withdrawals. Even while using I could easily go hours without Nicotine and not feel even a hint of physical symptoms. People talk about cold sweating and irritability and all that, and some claim it's as bad as opioids. I remember when my elementary school teacher quit Tobacco and I could see him sweating and being exhausted all day. But the only thing I get are the cravings, and they're strong!

But yeah, basically, I think some people are just "immune" to withdrawals from certain drugs. My brother is the same ways as me with Nicotine. And you lucked out, being resistant to withdrawals from Benzos, while I only got boring Nicotine

 

[Dextro .45]

Just received my parcel and took Lorazepam 2mg at 1pm and in 30min a significant Benzo effect is noticed, with relaxed comfort, mild muscle relaxant and robust anxiolytic properties noted….lasting eight hours approx. taken with Methadone 50mg after the Lorazepam kicked in so I can judge just the true benzo effect.

Methadone 75mg in morning 7am
Lorazepam 2mg at 1pm
Methadone 50mg at 150pm
Ritalin 20mg IR

Feeling perfectly fine….nowhere near approaching dangerous territory

Although I do feel very boldly, the benzodiazepine like relaxation in my headspace, slightly slower and chill…feel loose and relaxed ….happy and content. Mood is up beat and pleasant …..week off paid vacation

Sitting at the coffee table watching tv, field stripped the polished blue steel, Beretta 92F 9 Para. adding fresh oil to the rails, slide, barrel, receiver….working the action….cycles like warm butter. Beautiful work of art. Italian fine craftsmanship in V.T. Gardone …the Beretta factory sitting by the river side for over 500 Years

It’s like looking at a fine clock….admiring all the intricate moving parts, and fine hand work, custom enraging, fine craftsmanship…..an endless time piece….however this fine work of art carries 15 rounds of Federal Premium 147 grain Hydra Shok hollow points that could erradicate any hostile threat …if need be. All its range time is punching holes in paper at 50 & 100 yards at an outdoor range. Fianchi Italian black leather IWB holster for concealed carry and double magazine pouch carrier on other side of belt …if need be. Like a slick WOP its all Italian elegance, both fit and finish

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

So ya, I posted a similar thread like this a few years ago….and now an update.

Very interesting & strange. I’ve been taking long term benzodiazepine compounds for like 15-20 years and no real significant withdrawal that would take me out of work, like my major opioid withdrawal 15 years back (2 weeks of hell).

So I started off Etizolam 5,000mg & Deschloroetizolam 2,000mg taken over 3-5 years - all in appropriate therapeutic doses, not daily every week, month….but used in a therapeutic cocktail when needed, like Etizolam 0.5 - 1mg three times a week

I’ve had large quantities of Avizafone (Pro-Diazepam) 40-50 grams IM injection- all over a year let’s say ….each dose Avizafone 60-80mg (Valium 30-40mg) which has a significantly higher peak serum level and faster 0.5h Aviz vs 1.5h Diaz. …upon cessation I really didn’t experience any significant uncomfortable feelings….like, at all? Freakin strange. …..Not complaining at all lol, as Benzo & Ethanol withdrawal is actually the worst and can be deadly

I’ve had the super long acting Diclazepam (2-Chloro Diazepam) 1-3mg PG solution…..regular dose 3mg every few days, I had 1,500mg about 5 years ago roughly…..was out over a year ago….so let’s say 1,500mg over 2-3 years of regular therapeutic dose, and even months after cessation/running out never experienced any uncomfortable feelings

However…..I DID experience mild symptoms which I attributed to benzodiazepine usage…..a month ago for a week, I had super mild muscle jolts while sleeping, 3 days of horrid insomnia (which I took Trazolam 50mg, Clonidine 0.1mg, Zopliclone 7.5mg half) took night cocktail for few days, Wow amazing sleep cocktail for short term.

During this 2-3 days of insomnia….my work day was fucked, cognitive impairment, forgetting shit, messing up client orders, etc…..and night sleeping was brain wide awake ….after the 3rd night I said Fck this, and took that 3-shot combo and slept like a a baby …..took for a week and cut dose in half, then tapered off with half a Clonidine & Trazadone…now nothing

So it’s been 10-14 days now with absolutely nothing……and I feel completely normal. Is this normal? If it were opioids I’d be fuuuuucked. As I take 100-125 Methadone daily, and pick up every month 100 tablet sealed bottle and surplus tablets …..even a full 24h without I will know, 2-3 days would be very uneasy, and 3-7 days I’d need serious help.



How could I be relatively fine….to completely fine ?

About 2 full weeks and no benzodiazepine what so ever…..mind you, today I will be receiving Lorazepam 1mg tablets which am excited about, but I don’t NEED them. I want them lol…..but I COULD go without. Definitely not me with opioids. If I had no Methadone for even 2 days I’d bite the bullet financially and acquire a shit load of Hydromorphone and pulverize for oral syringe up the wooyaa

Very purplexing….Im very glad mind you…..just scratching my head. All my dosing is smartly taken therapeutic dosing…however this 3-4 days weekly, nightly…..some times larger doses for relaxation fun, but always aware of use and being mindful to space out and decrease dose, frequency….then ramp up again, then wean down a bit….I was administering robust doses of water soluble Valium 40mg …..well over 40,000 mg (probably 60-70k max) and more than a month after I was perfectly fine. Significant factor - most are long acting benzo with multiple active metabolites which slowly taper off after 3-6 days (like regular Diazepam and especially Diclazepam…even Avizafone).


I gather then….taking long term benzodiazepine therapy CAN be safely done, in responsible therapeutic doses, spaced over (Not high daily dosing Every day, Every month & year) but regular spaced out sporadic therapeutic dose when needed, and being mindful to ease up every so often?

Anyone also taken long-tern benzodiazepine therapy (in appropriate therapeutic doses) and be relatively ok? Not sweating in WD and thinking about Benzo’s all the time, etc but just normal functional persons, working, family, fun, etc while having a vault full of benzodiazepine, opioids, stimulants, etc, etc

my experience seems to be the same as yours.

i’m not totally clear on your frequency of usage but it seems to be variable like me.

not a benzo but i took pregabalin every day and also abused it a lot for 5 years straight when zero withdrawl.

with benzos i have used daily for a month then stopped with no withdrawl.

been on valium for like 6 years and the use is all over the place. sometimes once a week. if i’m in a pain flare i could be using 30 mg daily for weeks.

no withdrawl or sleep issues taking 2 weeks of abstinence so i figure im not dependent ?

but man; i am absolutely terrified of getting dependent on this shit and not going to lie to myself and say i’m immuned to it. just from what i’ve read i’d rather go through a million opioid withdrawals than one benzo withdrawal.


PS: what are you high on right now? that post was….high ish

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I've had a similar experience as well.

First tried benzos at like 15 years old (Almost 40 now).
Since then, I've experimented with Ativan, Xanax, Klonopin, Temazepam, Bromazepam, Z-drugs..
With clonazepam being the one I've taken off & on long term.

I've never fully experienced a benzo withdrawal. I've had pretty bad rebound anxiety come around when I don't take any, but nothing like "hearing voices" or having the shakes or anything like that.

Granted I've never continued to go long term without them either, so I don't know what an entire month without them would feel like anymore. But even before I started using benzos daily, I would have little times in my life where I'd use them for days at a time & notice no significant withdrawal afterwards.

I've always kinda hated benzos for "recreational" purposes. I mean, they can be slightly recreational at times, but most of the time they just make me feel flat, dulled, bored, tired.. Not exactly a fun time.

I do have an extreme panic & anxiety disorder & they're wonderful meds in that regard.


I watched my mom go through clonazepam withdrawals in my early 20's though. She had been on them for like 20 years at that point, so it was pretty rough for her.

Maybe I do experience WD symptoms, but I probably just pass them off as my usual state of being. Since my usual state of being is always anxious, always in pain, always depressed, always wondering if that weird pain or weird sensation I just felt is something major or another phantom thing that'll go away eventually.

Maybe we just got lucky. I went through tramadol withdrawal every month for 10 years. Now that was pretty awful. Same with heroin withdrawal. No sleep, no peace, no sanity until you activate those damn mu receptors again with something.

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

I've had a similar experience as well.

First tried benzos at like 15 years old (Almost 40 now).
Since then, I've experimented with Ativan, Xanax, Klonopin, Temazepam, Bromazepam, Z-drugs..
With clonazepam being the one I've taken off & on long term.

I've never fully experienced a benzo withdrawal. I've had pretty bad rebound anxiety come around when I don't take any, but nothing like "hearing voices" or having the shakes or anything like that.

Granted I've never continued to go long term without them either, so I don't know what an entire month without them would feel like anymore. But even before I started using benzos daily, I would have little times in my life where I'd use them for days at a time & notice no significant withdrawal afterwards.

I've always kinda hated benzos for "recreational" purposes. I mean, they can be slightly recreational at times, but most of the time they just make me feel flat, dulled, bored, tired.. Not exactly a fun time.

I do have an extreme panic & anxiety disorder & they're wonderful meds in that regard.


I watched my mom go through clonazepam withdrawals in my early 20's though. She had been on them for like 20 years at that point, so it was pretty rough for her.

Maybe I do experience WD symptoms, but I probably just pass them off as my usual state of being. Since my usual state of being is always anxious, always in pain, always depressed, always wondering if that weird pain or weird sensation I just felt is something major or another phantom thing that'll go away eventually.

Maybe we just got lucky. I went through tramadol withdrawal every month for 10 years. Now that was pretty awful. Same with heroin withdrawal. No sleep, no peace, no sanity until you activate those damn mu receptors again with something.

so you say you’ve never gone a month without benzos since using clonazepam?

how long have you abstained for then to test if a withdrawal came on?

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

the other thing i’ve asked about on here but never gotten a straight answer is what does the initial
come on of a benzo withdrawl feel like?

im
guessing insomnia is one of the first symptoms to show?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

so you say you’ve never gone a month without benzos since using clonazepam?

Meh, yes & no technically.
I've had access to clonazepam for well over 20 years. But only in the last few years did I start taking it daily.

So, I've had little binges with klonopin & then stopped & been fine. But ever since taking it daily a few years ago, I haven't gone an entire month without it. So maybe I would have WDs if I did. But I can take them & then skip a few days & still feel fine. Some times I'll have strong anxiety come on & I end up taking them after a day or two, but whether or not that's from stopping or just my natural anxiety returning, I'm not sure.

 

[Dextro .45]

my experience seems to be the same as yours.

i’m not totally clear on your frequency of usage but it seems to be variable like me.

not a benzo but i took pregabalin every day and also abused it a lot for 5 years straight when zero withdrawl.

with benzos i have used daily for a month then stopped with no withdrawl.

been on valium for like 6 years and the use is all over the place. sometimes once a week. if i’m in a pain flare i could be using 30 mg daily for weeks.

no withdrawl or sleep issues taking 2 weeks of abstinence so i figure im not dependent ?

but man; i am absolutely terrified of getting dependent on this shit and not going to lie to myself and say i’m immuned to it. just from what i’ve read i’d rather go through a million opioid withdrawals than one benzo withdrawal.


PS: what are you high on right now? that post was….high ish

I totally agree with you man….I too would go through an opioid withdrawal of just 2 weeks sick and better after, as benzodiazepine discontinue syndrome can last a looong time, and are much worse complications

You can tell ah lol….I wrote there saying I just received Lorazepam 1mg tablets…..and I took 2mg on empty stomach with Methadone 50mg after

It’s been few weeks with zero Benzo and I must say this Lorazepam 2mg hit me Pretty nice

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

I'm no expert or anything, but I experience a similar thing with Nicotine. I was using Tobacco pouches (dip, snus, whatever) daily for over 10 years and when I quit recently I had no withdrawals. Even while using I could easily go hours without Nicotine and not feel even a hint of physical symptoms. People talk about cold sweating and irritability and all that, and some claim it's as bad as opioids. I remember when my elementary school teacher quit Tobacco and I could see him sweating and being exhausted all day. But the only thing I get are the cravings, and they're strong!

But yeah, basically, I think some people are just "immune" to withdrawals from certain drugs. My brother is the same ways as me with Nicotine. And you lucked out, being resistant to withdrawals from Benzos, while I only got boring Nicotine

are you seriously comparing benzo withdrawl to nicotine?

this is like comparing a slingshot to a nuclear bomb

 

[Dextro .45]

Correct above….

I just find it interesting that through my extensive regular long term benzodiazepine use, abet all in typical therapeutic doses, have not experienced the horrid Benzo withdrawal after cessation. Even a month or so before next Benzo and not in any significant discomfort

I think I’ll continue usuing benzodiazepine as I have for the last 20 years or so and be fine with that…..

Good times

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

Meh, yes & no technically.
I've had access to clonazepam for well over 20 years. But only in the last few years did I start taking it daily.

So, I've had little binges with klonopin & then stopped & been fine. But ever since taking it daily a few years ago, I haven't gone an entire month without it. So maybe I would have WDs if I did. But I can take them & then skip a few days & still feel fine. Some times I'll have strong anxiety come on & I end up taking them after a day or two, but whether or not that's from stopping or just my natural anxiety returning, I'm not sure.

clon has a super long half life so skipping a few days you’re still under the influence of the drug and nowhere near withdrawl.

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

You can tell ah lol

yea it that post was a dead giveaway lol.

not saying it didn’t make sense or anything. it was just a very, let’s say, vivid and enthusiastic post


i just popped 20 mg of valium myself. it’s been 5 days since my last dose. had some pain coming on.

 

[Dextro .45]

the other thing i’ve asked about on here but never gotten a straight answer is what does the initial
come on of a benzo withdrawl feel like?

im
guessing insomnia is one of the first symptoms to show?

Ya, probaby insomnia……however, mine only lasted 2-3 days which were remedied with Trazadone, Clonidine, Zopliclone….

The more significant withdrawal symptoms in your head feels fcked…..like it’s empty and feels weird, significant cognitive impairment. I only experienced a very, very mild form of this….partly due to not sleep for few days

 

[Dextro .45]

clon has a super long half life so skipping a few days you’re still under the influence of the drug and nowhere near withdrawl.

True

And I mostly take diazepam and its pro drug Avizafone (Pro-Diazepam)

Lots of Diclazepam which have 3 active metabolites and lasts longer than Valium…….200h half life and still in urine 7-14 days after steady daily dosing

When stopping Diclazepam I tapered off to lower doses and went several months without……

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

True

And I mostly take diazepam and its pro drug Avizafone (Pro-Diazepam)

Lots of Diclazepam which have 3 active metabolites and lasts longer than Valium…….200h half life and still in urine 7-14 days after steady daily dosing

When stopping Diclazepam I tapered off to lower doses and went several months without……

i wonder if it’d easier to get dependent on short acting vs long acting benzos.

short acting it’s out of your system and then you’re basically sober and can reset tolerance. long acting you’re basically on a dose of it for days which i would think is just like daily dosing a short actor,

i don’t feel like i get the therapeutic effect of pain releif behind the initial dose day with valium so i just have all these long acting metabolites hanging around making me dependent for no reason, with a short actor Incan just deal with the pain flare that day then have benzos out of my system and reduce the chance of dependency developing —-this is my theory though, no idea if it’s true.

 

[Dextro .45]

From what I’ve read short acting drugs like Alprazolam (Xanax) are rapid acting and fast clearance , so abusing Xanax for months at high doses then stopping, you would experience horrid withdrawal symptoms

Longer acting benzodiazepine compounds like Diazepam (Valium) are longer acting . In addition it metabolizes into 3 active drugs which extends the time these compounds are in your body…..and are slowly, gradually cleared from the body….these are less prone to withdrawal symptoms

Most people will taper off Diazepam (Valium) every week smaller and smaller until comfort meds like Clonidine and Pregabalin are taken to aid in benzodiazepine cessation

 

[Dextro .45]

I just think of all the benzodiazepine drugs I’ve taken in the past 20 years and it’s ALOT of stuff….. but I manage to take low to moderate therapeutic doses, and don’t dose every day….theres a science behind the madness

I go up to a month without benzodiazepine and I feel alright

 

[Syntherize]

are you seriously comparing benzo withdrawl to nicotine?

this is like comparing a slingshot to a nuclear bomb

Benzo wd is more akin to alcohol abstinence syndrome except it is far more intense and stressful to the body (shaking, vomiting, insomnia, severe anxiety, increased heart rate, hot/cold flashes, seizures, and death). GABAergic withdrawal is no joke and it must be taken seriously while seeking out real medical treatment in order to taper such as using Librium medicinally to restore homeostasis.

 

[Dextro .45]

Yes, I know….that’s why I wrote this thread.

Ethanol & benzodiazepine withdrawal are the most serious and can be fatal.

Even during COVID….Health Canada made a statement regarding the LCBO staying open. “We would like to address that all LCBO stores will remain open, and are considered essential business. Whether we like to admire it or not, there is a segment of the population that are dependent and rely on alcohol, and can be very serious if they go without”.

They actual said that

Opioid withdrawal/dependency while severe is not life threatening. You’re just sick for weeks. Benzodiazepine withdrawal if severe causes seizures, heart arrhythmia, rapid respiratory system, etc and could be fatal

I’m just pleased with my extensive long term use, of sporadic therapeutic dosing of long acting compounds, I was able to taper off dosing and be without for 2-3 weeks…..even a month here and there without any concerning symptoms or discomfort. The most I’ve ever experienced was 2-3 days of poor sleeping patterns, mild day time cognitive impairment for 2-3 days and that’s about it.

Having on hand certain medications to modulate any mild discomfort is essential….my fav are:

Clonidine 0.1mg - extremely effective anxiolytic & sedative, lowering BP & HR, eliminating RLS, hot/cold flashes, etc
Pregabalin & Gabapentin - Anticonvulsant with robust anxiolytic properties, can help reduce doses of opioid/benzo
Trazadone 50mg - Night time sleep disturbances, very effective hypnotic & sedative
Zopliclone 7.5mg - Hypnotic (half tablet usually) same subunit at benzo site a1 a5 hypnotic & sedative

I’ve take these 3-7 days after ramping down benzodiazepine use, tapering off doses, then using the above meds for about a week, and after I’m perfectly fine.