Tryptamines Ways to potentiate my 4-Pro-DMT?

[Axemancometh]

I recently got some 4-Pro-DMT in the mail, and I am not realizing that these psilocin RCs have half the length of psilocin when it's found in good old shrooms. I understand this is most likely due to the other alkaloids within the fungus that make it last longer, or perhaps the time it takes the body to break down psilocybin into psilocin. But I like to make my trips stretch. Should I perhaps mix with some Syrian Rue/Passionflower?

 

[Syntherize]

I recently got some 4-Pro-DMT in the mail, and I am not realizing that these psilocin RCs have half the length of psilocin when it's found in good old shrooms. I understand this is most likely due to the other alkaloids within the fungus that make it last longer, or perhaps the time it takes the body to break down psilocybin into psilocin. But I like to make my trips stretch. Should I perhaps mix with some Syrian Rue/Passionflower?

Combining MAOI’s with tryptamines or any other monoamines is very dangerous, risky, and foolish. I say stand down and simply enjoy what you have.

 

[perpetualdawn]

I recently got some 4-Pro-DMT in the mail, and I am not realizing that these psilocin RCs have half the length of psilocin when it's found in good old shrooms. I understand this is most likely due to the other alkaloids within the fungus that make it last longer, or perhaps the time it takes the body to break down psilocybin into psilocin. But I like to make my trips stretch. Should I perhaps mix with some Syrian Rue/Passionflower?

Are you sure about 4-Pro-DMT lasting half as long as mushrooms? I've never heard that before, sounds like fake news to me. I've not tried 4-Pro-DMT, but I found 4-AcO-DMT lasts basically as long as mushrooms.

I would agree with not bothering to try to combo with MAOIs, could be a bit risky if you get it wrong.

 

[Ismene2]

Depends on the dosage - 4-DMT only resemble mushrooms at very low doses. Once you push the dose they're a unique version of DMT - in fact they're better than oral DMT cos there's a lot less nausea.

I don't think adding an maoi will extend the trip but it will make it more DMT like - if you take an MAOI with shrooms it makes shrooms more like oral DMT too. (In fact that's reminded me perpetual! I must get some moclobemide again!)

 

[Didgital]

I recently got some 4-Pro-DMT in the mail, and I am not realizing that these psilocin RCs have half the length of psilocin when it's found in good old shrooms. I understand this is most likely due to the other alkaloids within the fungus that make it last longer, or perhaps the time it takes the body to break down psilocybin into psilocin. But I like to make my trips stretch. Should I perhaps mix with some Syrian Rue/Passionflower?

Do you have experience combining mushrooms w sryian rue? I know folks who do it and they take 1g or less of mushrooms and its a lot stronger w longer duration.

I imagine it would be the same w 4-pro.
I dont really see physical danger as p do it w mushrooms but dont take this is as advice.

Also isnt passionflower pretty much ineffective as an maoi?

 

[Syntherize]

Do you have experience combining mushrooms w sryian rue? I know folks who do it and they take 1g or less of mushrooms and its a lot stronger w longer duration.

I imagine it would be the same w 4-pro.
I dont really see physical danger as p do it w mushrooms but dont take this is as advice.

Also isnt passionflower pretty much ineffective as an maoi?

The danger is in the fact that we don’t know if OP has experience with MAOI’s + monoamines, and he would then have to understand what other products he can/cannot consume during the experience, bc even something as simple as beer, cheese, etc could result in a hypertensive crisis (even death), so overall it is best not to experiment with MAOI’s for the first time alone and without knowing what to do.

 

[xdrc]

RIMAs (like harmala alkaloids from syrian rue) don't lead to a hypertensive crisis from a little bit of cheese. Of course do not be an idiot and do avoid intake of too much tyramine. Medications need to be considered, yes. But there is nothing inherently irresponsible in combining psilocin prodrugs with RIMAs, other than adjusting dosage.

 

[Khacorrat]

Hope you don't mind my question, but what's the difference between RIMAs and MAOI?

Are they a kind of MAOI? Or do they act differently?

 

[Syntherize]

RIMAs (like harmala alkaloids from syrian rue) don't lead to a hypertensive crisis from cheese. Medications need to be considered, yes. But there is nothing inherently irresponsible in combining psilocin prodrugs with RIMAs, other than adjusting dosage.

“The dose makes the poison”. There is a reason why you follow a strict diet or have to fast for a day or two prior to doing ayahuasca.

 

[Syntherize]

Hope you don't mind my question, but what's the difference between RIMAs and MAOI?

Are they a kind of MAOI? Or do they act differently?

There are reversible MAOI’s that can be defeated in the brain and then there are non-reversible MAOI’s that linger in the body until they are fully metabolized. Just because an MAOI is reversible doesn’t mean that one should feel safe consuming any quantities of monoamines. It is better to play it safe than be sorry. Godspeed.

 

[Esperighanto]

A lot has already been well answered in this thread, but I did want to chime in to say that 4-PrO-DMT has been reported to often have a similar duration if not a longer duration than 4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-DMT, or mushrooms from the people I've known to test it, including myself. I found 4-PrO-DMT to be unique in a way that makes me wonder about the 4-glutaryloxy and other 4-substitutions, I suspect the 5, 7, and 2 positions will all be of interest on the tryptamine scaffold too, but esterifying that 4 position to an acetoxy or propionyloxy makes it seem meaningfully different.

If I had some 4-PrO-DMT on hand to waste, fuck it I'd try it with harmalas. Be sure to Shulgin climb though, start lower than you could ever imagine working and work your way up. I've had mushrooms where 90mg of harmaline and 30mg of tetrahydroharmine had me only requiring 200mg of Panaeolus cyanescens for an extensive and profound trip. On the topic of Passiflora species as an MAOI by the way, they're quite rich in tetrahydroharmine and far more clearheaded than harmine or harmaline, but you need to consume a pretty monstrous amount so I'd advise using a passiflora concentrate if you go that route.

 

[xdrc]

“The dose makes the poison”. There is a reason why you follow a strict diet or have to fast for a day or two prior to doing ayahuasca.

The ultra-strict dietary restrictions of ayahuasca are vastly overblown and outdated knowledge from a safety standpoint. Please read some papers on reversible MAOIs. Still, care needs to be taken, especially if it comes to certain medications, but suggesting the idea of combining harmalas with 4-PrO-DMT is foolish is just plain wrong. The dosages do need to be adjusted of course.

 

[Esperighanto]

The ultra-strict dietary restrictions of ayahuasca are vastly overblown and outdated knowledge from a safety standpoint. Please read some papers on reversible MAOIs. Still, care needs to be taken, especially if it comes to certain medications, but suggesting the idea of combining harmalas with 4-PrO-DMT is foolish is just plain wrong. The dosages do need to be adjusted of course.

Yeah a lot of the "cheese poisoning" hysteria comes from the impacts of things like Moclobemide and similar irreversible MAOIs. I've combined harmaline with 4-AcO-DMT and it felt extraordinarily similar to psilohuasca.

 

[iom]

Yeah a lot of the "cheese poisoning" hysteria comes from the impacts of things like Moclobemide and similar irreversible MAOIs. I've combined harmaline with 4-AcO-DMT and it felt extraordinarily similar to psilohuasca.

Moclobemide is a REMI and is also MAO-A selective like harmalas. The risks are probably similar. Food interactions are unlikely with either unless there are peculiar circumstances. For example, large doses of haramlas or moclobemide may cross over and inhibit more MAO-B, increasing risk.

Something else to keep in mind is that most foods on the avoidance list including many kinds of cheeses, aged or otherwise, are actually low in tyramine, and only a minority of these products are actually high in tyramine. The trouble is, you don't really know what you're getting unless it's been tested. Hence, for most people most of the time such foods are ok even with irreversible MAOIs, which can lead to a false sense of security. I think it's always better to play it safe. My recommendation is to avoid problem foods for 6 hours before and 12 hours after dosing time, or 12 and 24 hours respectively for an extra margin of safety.

Lastly, I believe drug interactions with REMIs are a lot more risky and should be taken very seriously. Ensure any contraindicated drugs have cleared the body (which could require days for many drugs with long half-life) and wait at least 24 hours after dosing before taking them, unless you really know what you're doing.

For MAOI + 4-Pro-DMT, I suggest starting with 1/4 of the dose one would normally take without the MAOI/REMI.

 

[Didgital]

This might not be the best place to ask.... but what happens to the Pro or Aco part of the molecule? Like w 4-aco, we know that psilocin is the main metabolite after I guess hydrolysis, but what happens to the 2 carbons and ketone group? They gotta go somewhere.. Acetic acid? ethanol??

 

[xdrc]

Hydrolysis to acetic acid and propanoic acid. Acetic acid can then turn into Acetyl-CoA and off into the Krebs cycle, propanoate can enter the Krebs cycle via succinyl-CoA. Both acetic acid and propanoic acid are commonly found in foods and are endogenously present from various biosynthetic transformations in the body.

 

[Didgital]

Hydrolysis to acetic acid and propanoic acid. Acetic acid can then turn into Acetyl-CoA and off into the Krebs cycle, propanoate can enter the Krebs cycle via succinyl-CoA. Both acetic acid and propanoic acid are commonly found in foods and are endogenously present from various biosynthetic transformations in the body.

Did not know proprionic acid was common but makes sense. All I know is don't drink methanol lol, cuz it forms Formic Acid which we DON'T have a good mechanism to deal with afaik.

 

[Syntherize]

Did not know proprionic acid was common but makes sense. All I know is don't drink methanol lol, cuz it forms Formic Acid which we DON'T have a good mechanism to deal with afaik.

It’s actually kind of funny that the cure to methanol consumption is drinking ethanol until the methanol is cleared from the body lol. I’ve never done it, but imagine being in the ER and being handed shots of liquor to help you heal lmfao

P.S. There are also stories of desperate alcoholics that willingly drink Sterno cans, rubbing alcohol, and hand sanitizer…smh

 

[iom]

Formic acid isn't very toxic. All of these carboxylic acids are very water soluble and easily excreted through the kidneys.

Methanol is toxic because it is metabolized to formaldehyde, which is very nasty indeed. A partial antidote to methanol poisoning is large amounts of ethyl alcohol which ties up the same liver enzyme that produces the formaldehyde. I believe ethanol is used to treat methanol poisoning even in medical settings.

Edit: I see I'm not alone here in mentioning the use of ethanol to treat methanol poisoning.

 

[Didgital]

but imagine being in the ER and being handed shots of liquor to help you heal lmfao

Honestly in industrial chemistry labs that methanol is the primary solvent they keep everclear locked up just for this purpose. No joke.

There's really not much time to get that ethanol in you before you go blind, sick, and ultimately dead. You have about 30 minutes to start getting wasted AF. By then the MeOH is rapidly being absorbed and you're playing catch up with the ethanol. Inducing vomiting is not advised but I probably would try for the first minute after, then I would drink as much ethanol as I possibly could without puking. Hopefully ambulance doesn't take too long.