Miscellaneous Entire family of psychedelics which went under the radar : DEMPDHPCA

[Leprechaun]

There's not much more to add. These are partial ergolines which are also cyclized phenethylamines. Their structure is overlapping the base structure of LSD.

The core compound has been patented... But over nearly three decades this entire family of potential compounds has largely gone unnoticed!

I also looked up any clandestine information, and could not find any record of human trials or personal attempts to ingest and trial these compounds...

More Info : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEMPDHPCA#Derivatives

 

[xdrc]

They look awfully close to MPTP. Not sure if they would cause the same trouble though - the amine is shifted in the ring after all.

 

[perpetualdawn]

What an interesting class of chemicals! I wonder if Dave Nichols ever tried any of them out

 

[Leprechaun]

They look awfully close to MPTP. Not sure if they would cause the same trouble though - the amine is shifted in the ring after all.

Good point, but there is an amine everywhere here, in LSD, in all phenethylamine, etc... MPP+ is the actual neurotoxin which is produced by the MAO-B action on MPTP. So something would need to be converted to MPP+.

Here's a wild part of the MPTP story:

"After performing neural grafts of fetal tissue on three of the patients at Lund University Hospital in Sweden, the motor symptoms of two of the three patients were successfully treated, and the third showed partial recovery."

Digressing however.

I'll see if I can reach out to David and ask if he ever did try them.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Sharing Hans Meyers experiments making PEA-NDEPA derivatives: N-(N,N-diethylpropylamide)-PEA

 

[Bagseed]

Sharing Hans Meyers experiments making PEA-NDEPA derivatives: N-(N,N-diethylpropylamide)-PEA

that thread was pretty epic, even though he only tested threshhold doses.

 

[Leprechaun]

that thread was pretty epic, even though he only tested threshhold doses.

One thing to remember is that many ergolines/lysergides are oxytocic... So need to be careful with dose. Don't want to end up losing your limbs. Those derivatives have been researched and do have potential oxytocic activity. Would expect these to also potentially have such effects.

 

[perpetualdawn]

One thing to remember is that many ergolines/lysergides are oxytocic... So need to be careful with dose. Don't want to end up losing your limbs. Those derivatives have been researched and do have potential oxytocic activity. Would expect these to also potentially have such effects.

Is oxytocic the right term for this effect from some ergolines/lysergides?

I once had some acid where during the trip my left arm went really numb and kept curling in, like you see can happen to people with cerebral palsy. I always wondered if I was just tripping or if there was some weird byproduct in there that was causing it...

 

[red22]

Is oxytocic the right term for this effect from some ergolines/lysergides?

FYI, lysergide is an uncommon synonym for LSD. Lysergamide is the word you're looking for, which basically means LSD-type ergoline. Lysergamide also doubles as a synonym for lysergic acid amide. A new term was introduced some time recently, ergoamide; I think it sounds much cooler and it strictly denotes an ergoline class (it does not double…) and I proposed that we change our forum's prefix from lysergamide to ergoamide: https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/941348/


There are three main ergot alkaloid classes, clavines, ergoamides (lysergamides), and ergopeptides, with [LSD] belonging to the ergoamide class.

Biosynthesis and synthetic biology of psychoactive natural products. CS Jamieson, J Misa, Y Tang, JM Billingsley. Chem. Soc. Rev., 2021,50, 6950-7008. DOI: 10.1039/D1CS00065A (2.5 Lysergic acid and LSD)

 

[Didgital]

One thing to remember is that many ergolines/lysergides are oxytocic... So need to be careful with dose. Don't want to end up losing your limbs. Those derivatives have been researched and do have potential oxytocic activity. Would expect these to also potentially have such effects.

Hopefully no one is recklessly ingesting partial lysergamides without adequate medical supervision.

I dont think theyre common at all.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Sounds like vasoconstriction.

 

[Esperighanto]

There are a ton of these partial ergolines left to be explored, it mostly seems to be an issue of actually synthesizing them at this point. The majority are a huge pain in the ass to produce.

 

[red22]

There are a ton of these partial ergolines left to be explored, it mostly seems to be an issue of actually synthesizing them at this point. The majority are a huge pain in the ass to produce.

Because of its complex structure, only a few modifications of LSD have been carried out, and those involved alterations of the amide function, reduction of the 2,3- or 9,10-double bonds, substitutions on the indole nitrogen or at the 2-position, and changes in the alkyl group on the basic nitrogen atom. Unfortunately, very few of these changes have been studied using modern molecular pharmacology methods, and only some of them have been assessed in human psychopharmacology.

Structure–activity relationships of serotonin 5-HT2A agonists. David Nichols, 2012, WIREs Membr Transp Signal, 1: 559-579. DOI: 10.1002/wmts.42 (Ergolines)

Further reading: Comparison of the molecular structures of the three types of psychedelics

 

[red22]

I once had some acid where during the trip my left arm went really numb and kept curling in, like you see can happen to people with cerebral palsy. I always wondered if I was just tripping or if there was some weird byproduct in there that was causing it...

That reminds me of something a guy who lived through the counter culture told me. He had a brother who had been in an accident or something and was disabled as a result. He told me that he was only able to raise his arms above his head on LSD…

 

[Esperighanto]

That reminds of something a guy who lived through the counter culture told me. He had a brother who had been in an accident or something and was disabled as a result. He told me that he was only able to raise his arms above his head on LSD…

Psilocybin is the only thing that returned feeling and full range of motion to my hands and feet after 7 years of waiting for nerve damage to heal, after three 20+ hour surgeries (with less than 12 hours in between each one) induced seizures while I was under general anesthesia, virtually cooking the nerves in my hands and feet from the ages of 15-22.

 

[Leprechaun]

Is oxytocic the right term for this effect from some ergolines/lysergides?

I once had some acid where during the trip my left arm went really numb and kept curling in, like you see can happen to people with cerebral palsy. I always wondered if I was just tripping or if there was some weird byproduct in there that was causing it...

Oxytocic is something which can be used to induce or accelerate labor. It also has the effect of vasospasm, which creates problems for blood flow, and in high enough concentrations results is lack of blood to extremities, which then results in necrosis and gangrene.

 

[Leprechaun]

FYI, lysergide is an uncommon synonym for LSD. Lysergamide is the word you're looking for, which basically means LSD-type ergoline. Lysergamide also doubles as a synonym for lysergic acid amide. A new term was introduced some time recently, ergoamide; I think it sounds much cooler and it strictly denotes an ergoline class (it does not double…) and I proposed that we change our forum's prefix from lysergamide to ergoamide: https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/941348/


There are three main ergot alkaloid classes, clavines, ergoamides (lysergamides), and ergopeptides, with [LSD] belonging to the ergoamide class.

Biosynthesis and synthetic biology of psychoactive natural products. CS Jamieson, J Misa, Y Tang, JM Billingsley. Chem. Soc. Rev., 2021,50, 6950-7008. DOI: 10.1039/D1CS00065A (2.5 Lysergic acid and LSD)

Great, thanks for the insight!

I actually just received my copy of Albert Hoffmans "Ergot Alkaloids"

Still waiting on Ergoamides I have known and Loved.

 

[Didgital]

I actually just received my copy of Albert Hoffmans "Ergot Alkaloids"

Its really informative book, extremely dry and boring

 

[Esperighanto]

Its really informative book, extremely dry and boring

Yeah, a lot like other books written by chemists or science-first minds imo. It's rare to come upon anything meaningfully valuable in a scientific context that isn't either boring, or dense (An Eternal Golden Braid came to mind as far as the dense side of the spectrum).

 

[Goodwalt]

Yeah, a lot like other books written by chemists or science-first minds imo. It's rare to come upon anything meaningfully valuable in a scientific context that isn't either boring, or dense (An Eternal Golden Braid came to mind as far as the dense side of the spectrum).

Pihkal is what you're looking for