Opioids kratom tolerance?

[DeathIndustrial88]

Kratom is literally a super weak partial agonist with a duration of under 2hrs & people on here are seriously comparing it to oxycodone, heroin & even tramadol.

Cmon now. Tramadol (and it's active full agonist metabolite) is superior to kratom in every way. If kratom truly felt like tramadol, I'd have been addicted to it a long time ago. I was a tramadol "addict" for 11 years, so I'm very versed on how tramadol feels. I WISH kratom felt anything remotely like tramadol.

Tramadol is a TAAR1 agonist (although very weak), which means it also releases serotonin. It's an extremely unique synthetic opioid. Kratom has nothing on tramadol.

I have never felt anything even remotely enjoyable from kratom, except maybe the extracts. And the extracts high lasted maybe 30 minutes to an hour. And at 10-20 bucks a dose, how the hell does anyone even afford to have a kratom-extract habit anyway? You might as well have a dope habit at that point instead.

Kratom leaf & powder is so full of other alkaloid compounds too & some of those compounds are antagonists & dopamine blockers. And people dare have the nerve to compare it to my precious tramadol (which lasts 6-8hrs & doesn't contain any other sketchy alkaloids).


The DEA's concern with it is pure hysteria too. I'm sure they get on sites like these & see people saying "it feels like oxycodone/heroin/etc!!"... And that's just gonna make them want to ban it, even though it's incredibly inferior to the aforementioned opioids. If it works for you though, that's great. But as some one who's use to tramadol, heroin & buprenorphine, I've never understood the hype around kratom, except for the fact that it's legal. But even though it's legal doesn't mean it's any good.

 

[Psynaught]

To be honest, I haven’t really used it in a pain-relief setting. Kratom leaf worked surprisingly well for a mouth infection I once had, whereas codeine and tramadol didn’t help at all.

7-OH, with its short half-life and the quick tolerance build up, doesn’t seem very effective as a legitimate pain medication. At best, it might work for a day, but not in the long run.

It also lacks many of the traditional opioid characteristics. For example, it doesn’t give me the deep emotional release I used to get from poppy pod tea, and it doesn’t induce that heavy relaxation or “nod.” Instead, it feels more like a stimulant type opioid it makes you wired, and being wired often makes physical pain feel more intense.

The only real advantage I see is its legality and the fact that it can be combined with benzodiazepines and antihistamines relatively safely. That said, I have noticed some slowed breathing with that combo nothing alarming, but still noticeable. Even then, I never experienced a proper “nod,” even with benzos and antihistamines, though I should add I’ve never gone beyond 15 mg.

If you can actually keep it to once a week, God bless you. I once had a stash of around 20 pills and told myself I’d only use them weekly. The problem is, these things make you want to re-dose like crazy. And I’m usually very careful with opioids for example, I’ve managed to use poppy pod tea only occasionally, and I even have a stash of codeine and tramadol that I barely touch.

But with these, I started with the intention of once a week, and by the very first week I was already up to using every other day. By the second week, it became a daily habit until my stash was gone.

The only good thing is that I can’t order them easily I have to import them from another country, and they’re expensive. Still, I catch myself tempted to order again, because sometimes I really feel the need to get high. But I know for sure that if I did, there’s no way I’d be able to keep it at just once a week.

Oh boy...sounds like I need to be extra careful. I have a Tramadol, Oxy, and Fent stash and am super good about not abusing, but you are saying that 7oH is even more addicting than these 3.

 

[Psynaught]

Kratom is literally a super weak partial agonist with a duration of under 2hrs & people on here are seriously comparing it to oxycodone, heroin & even tramadol.

Cmon now. Tramadol (and it's active full agonist metabolite) is superior to kratom in every way. If kratom truly felt like tramadol, I'd have been addicted to it a long time ago. I was a tramadol "addict" for 11 years, so I'm very versed on how tramadol feels. I WISH kratom felt anything remotely like tramadol.

Tramadol is a TAAR1 agonist (although very weak), which means it also releases serotonin. It's an extremely unique synthetic opioid. Kratom has nothing on tramadol.

I have never felt anything even remotely enjoyable from kratom, except maybe the extracts. And the extracts high lasted maybe 30 minutes to an hour. And at 10-20 bucks a dose, how the hell does anyone even afford to have a kratom-extract habit anyway? You might as well have a dope habit at that point instead.

Kratom leaf & powder is so full of other alkaloid compounds too & some of those compounds are antagonists & dopamine blockers. And people dare have the nerve to compare it to my precious tramadol (which lasts 6-8hrs & doesn't contain any other sketchy alkaloids).


The DEA's concern with it is pure hysteria too. I'm sure they get on sites like these & see people saying "it feels like oxycodone/heroin/etc!!"... And that's just gonna make them want to ban it, even though it's incredibly inferior to the aforementioned opioids. If it works for you though, that's great. But as some one who's use to tramadol, heroin & buprenorphine, I've never understood the hype around kratom, except for the fact that it's legal. But even though it's legal doesn't mean it's any good.

Agreed...I don't find Kratom dangerous at all compared to Oxy...heck alcohol is way more dangerous. But government has an unquenchable thirst for control and big pharma fuels their ability to do so.

 

[lost weekend]

The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is recommending that the substance 7-hydroxymitragynine, known as 7-OH, become a controlled substance due to its ability to bind to opioid receptors, making it potentially addictive. 7-OH is a concentrated component of the kratom plant. The FDA is focused on regulating 7-OH and not focused on natural kratom products.

They are trying to make it a schedule 1 drug and I feel they will get there way. Like a power vacuum, I believe MAT programs are excited about recruiting the all the 7-OH dependents.

On July 29, 2025, during a joint press conference, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA or the Agency) recommended to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to classify 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) as a Schedule I controlled substance under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA). Historically, it appears the DEA has generally relied on a two-step process in scheduling a substance as Schedule I: first, the DEA issues a temporary scheduling order to address imminent threats, and then proceeds to permanent scheduling through rulemaking. Indeed, over the last 25 years, public records show the DEA has generally used temporary orders, except in limited circumstances, before finalizing Schedule I classification.

However, the law does not require the DEA to use the emergency/temporary scheduling pathway. Rather, the DEA could pursue permanent scheduling directly using the full formal rulemaking process, but without a temporary/emergency order first. Given the language used during the July 29 joint HHS-FDA-DEA press conference, it appears that the DEA may pursue the emergency scheduling route as opposed to or in addition to the normal scheduling route. We believe this would be a departure from the traditional approach and could present legal and procedural challenges.

Emergency scheduling allows the DEA to schedule a substance as Schedule I without going through its full 8-factor analysis of whether scheduling is warranted. Emergency scheduling is temporary and remains valid for only two to three years. Importantly, emergency scheduling orders are not subject to judicial review, though such orders could perhaps be challenged in defending against a criminal prosecution. While public comment is not mandated for emergency scheduling, the DEA has, in past instances, provided opportunities for input before finalizing such orders.

Currently, the available evidence appears limited: there are no confirmed cases of fatalities from 7-hydroxymitragynine alone, only 53 reported poison control center calls nationwide over a three-month period, and a lack of seizure data, trafficking information, or signs of significant organized criminal activity. This evidence base distinguishes the current situation from previous emergency scheduling actions, where the DEA responded to patterns of multiple deaths, substantial law enforcement submissions, and notable increases in emergency department visits.

Relying primarily on preclinical animal research and laboratory receptor binding data marks a substantial shift from the established legal approach, which prioritizes real-world evidence of urgent public health risks. While laboratory findings show 7-OH’s high μ-opioid receptor activity, the potential pharmacological risk is not sufficient to establish an imminent hazard to public safety. For comparison, substances such as brorphine, fentanyl analogues, and isotonitazenes prompted action only after clear surges in deaths and enforcement activity—conditions not currently seen with 7-OH. In other words, the substances in question posed a clear and "imminent hazard" to public safety, indicating a rapidly escalating threat that is absent with 7-OH.

Accordingly, current evidence may not meet the threshold typically used to justify emergency scheduling. Rather, if there is a concern, a more measured approach is required where the available scientific, medical, and public input is fully vetted before rendering a decision to schedule 7-OH permanently. Indeed, implementing emergency scheduling for 7-OH under these circumstances could set a precedent for applying emergency scheduling in cases where evidence is primarily preclinical, rather than supported by established patterns of harm, raising due process considerations and potentially departing from the statutory framework Congress designed. A more measured path through the ordinary scheduling process would fully utilize existing FDA and state tools while following standard CSA scheduling procedures, ensuring scientific rigor and meaningful public involvement—reserving emergency mechanisms for situations where a real and present public health crisis is clearly evident.

Given the information provided so far, it appears that the FDA, as in 2016, has potentially not provided the DEA with a sufficient basis to schedule 7-OH as Schedule 1, let alone through a temporary order. Indeed, many questions remain unanswered, so slowing down this march is necessary to ensure the right decision is made.

What happens to all of the 7-OH production companies if it is banned & moved to a schedule 1 drug ?

-- Criminalization: Making 7-OH a Schedule I controlled substance would make its production, distribution, and possession illegal under federal law. This would prevent companies from operating legally, effectively shutting down their business.

-- Investments Lost : Companies could explore bankruptcy options, such as Chapter 7 liquidation, to pay off debts and distribute assets to creditors. In some cases, Chapter 11 reorganization is possible if they can transition to a different business model. However, companies that depend on 7-OH production may find it difficult to reorganize under Chapter 11 because their main product would be illegal.

-- Loss of Revenue and Assets: With a ban, 7-OH production companies would lose all income related to these products. Their inventory, production equipment, and other business assets related to 7-OH could be seized and unable to generate revenue.

Move to Thailand, had it straight from the tree with a nice coffee which is a must ,not sure what strain it was guy never spoke English and my Thai is very very limited .they pronounce it Ga Thom so if you ask for kratom you will get a blank stare and a confused face

 

[lost weekend]

A ban on kratom and its alks will fuel a zene crisis that makes the opioid crisis they caused by taking people's scrips away and putting good doctors behind bars look like child's play.

To me it's my morning coffee. I think we should ban all caffeine, alcohol and nicotine products not to mention sugar and salt,that would shake things up at city Hall. Something tells me we need salt in our bodies but we could find a cliff somewhere and lick the rocks like some goats do .

 

[cnnka]

Kratom is literally a super weak partial agonist with a duration of under 2hrs & people on here are seriously comparing it to oxycodone, heroin & even tramadol.

Cmon now. Tramadol (and it's active full agonist metabolite) is superior to kratom in every way. If kratom truly felt like tramadol, I'd have been addicted to it a long time ago. I was a tramadol "addict" for 11 years, so I'm very versed on how tramadol feels. I WISH kratom felt anything remotely like tramadol.

Tramadol is a TAAR1 agonist (although very weak), which means it also releases serotonin. It's an extremely unique synthetic opioid. Kratom has nothing on tramadol.

I have never felt anything even remotely enjoyable from kratom, except maybe the extracts. And the extracts high lasted maybe 30 minutes to an hour. And at 10-20 bucks a dose, how the hell does anyone even afford to have a kratom-extract habit anyway? You might as well have a dope habit at that point instead.

Kratom leaf & powder is so full of other alkaloid compounds too & some of those compounds are antagonists & dopamine blockers. And people dare have the nerve to compare it to my precious tramadol (which lasts 6-8hrs & doesn't contain any other sketchy alkaloids).


The DEA's concern with it is pure hysteria too. I'm sure they get on sites like these & see people saying "it feels like oxycodone/heroin/etc!!"... And that's just gonna make them want to ban it, even though it's incredibly inferior to the aforementioned opioids. If it works for you though, that's great. But as some one who's use to tramadol, heroin & buprenorphine, I've never understood the hype around kratom, except for the fact that it's legal. But even though it's legal doesn't mean it's any good.

Most people here compare 7-OH to oxy, which I think is a pretty fair comparison.
When it comes to the kratom high, if you have no tolerance and get good quality leaf, it can actually give you a really nice buzz. Honestly, some of my best highs were from kratom leaf combined with a bit of weed it felt warm, heavy, and dizzying to the point where I couldn’t even stand or walk straight. But that was in the early days after a while, the effects fade and it just becomes a pretty nasty drug to take.

As for tramadol, it was never my thing it barely lasted more than four hours for me.

7-OH, though, is in a completely different league compared to either kratom or tramadol. Way more potent.

 

[cnnka]

Oh boy...sounds like I need to be extra careful. I have a Tramadol, Oxy, and Fent stash and am super good about not abusing, but you are saying that 7oH is even more addicting than these 3.

I haven’t tried fent or heroin, but compared to tramadol or oxy, 7-OH made me way more reckless with how I used it at least in my experience.

 

[Psynaught]

To me it's my morning coffee. I think we should ban all caffeine, alcohol and nicotine products not to mention sugar and salt,that would shake things up at city Hall. Something tells me we need salt in our bodies but we could find a cliff somewhere and lick the rocks like some goats do .

Now going without my morning coffee..that is something I could not tolerate. I would be seriously F'ed. I am way more dependent on my morning coffee than I am on Kratom.

 

[lost weekend]

Now going without my morning coffee..that is something I could not tolerate. I would be seriously F'ed. I am way more dependent on my morning coffee than I am on Kratom.

Lucky you

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

Move to Thailand, had it straight from the tree with a nice coffee which is a must ,not sure what strain it was guy never spoke English and my Thai is very very limited .they pronounce it Ga Thom so if you ask for kratom you will get a blank stare and a confused face

Wow that’s very interesting
I’ve heard Thailand is quite beautiful

 

[Psynaught]

My Opia Pink Strawberry 30 mg tabs arrived today. Much faster than expected, since I ordered them Tuesday night.

Now I have another question: I see that 7oH powder is available. I assume it is a much cheaper form of the drug. (Yes I am calling it a drug).

 

[lost weekend]

Wow that’s very interesting
I’ve heard Thailand is quite beautiful

It's paradise, kratom is fully legal ,so was cannibas but I think there only allowing a doctors prescription now which wouldn't be hard to get .I had so much fresh kratom leaves from this wonderful guy who owned a sort of hippy comunine that I had to start flushing them down the hotel toilet lol.but it is beutiful if you ever get the chance to go don't hesitate .only your flights will be expensive, once your there you can live like royalty and are treated that way .

 

[Psynaught]

It's paradise, kratom is fully legal ,so was cannibas but I think there only allowing a doctors prescription now which wouldn't be hard to get .I had so much fresh kratom leaves from this wonderful guy who owned a sort of hippy comunine that I had to start flushing them down the hotel toilet lol.but it is beutiful if you ever get the chance to go don't hesitate .only your flights will be expensive, once your there you can live like royalty and are treated that way .

You are overlooking the number 1 draw of Thailand: The women (just be careful of the ladyboys, LOL).

 

[lost weekend]

You are overlooking the number 1 draw of Thailand: The women (just be careful of the ladyboys, LOL).

Not a problem now.with lgbt people are comfortable in their own skin so do not make an effort to disguise themselfs ,some do but I travel always with my wife and its not why I go to Thailand.

 

[lost weekend]

What I do find depressing is pre adults ie 14 to 15 year old dancing on Bangla Road for the tourists ,but it is a poor country but the people are beautiful

 

[lost weekend]

You are overlooking the number 1 draw of Thailand: The women (just be careful of the ladyboys, LOL).

Depending what country you come from that may be the case but I can assure you we had our honeymoon in phucket and have been back 5 times since in 17 years .the times I've been there I've found Americans and Australiaians seem to take a liking to young girls .I find it repulsive but that's my personal opinion.

 

[Psynaught]

Not a problem now.with lgbt people are comfortable in their own skin so do not make an effort to disguise themselfs ,some do but I travel always with my wife and its not why I go to Thailand.

The Thais have always been pretty cool with the Ladyboys. If I went to Thailand, definitely would not take the wife

If I were a few years younger I would probably hit the M Thai gyms. Trained with a real Kru for a while here in the states when I was younger.

 

[Psynaught]

Depending what country you come from that may be the case but I can assure you we had our honeymoon in phucket and have been back 5 times since in 17 years .the times I've been there I've found Americans and Australiaians seem to take a liking to young girls .I find it repulsive but that's my personal opinion.

You find young women repulsive? Sorry, we are from different planets.

 

[JackARoe]

Now going without my morning coffee..that is something I could not tolerate. I would be seriously F'ed. I am way more dependent on my morning coffee than I am on Kratom.

Thank you, I have said that about myself too and got scoffed at. I have been drinking 2 cups of coffee every morning for 53 years. During Hurricane Alicia I was in Houston and my power got knocked out for 3 days. No coffee and I was a zombie and had such bad headaches. That was the only time I ever attemped to quit coffee. But i had quit kratom a few times and it was a pain in the ass but nothing like the heavier opioids. But I can not stop coffee and never will at this point.

I tried to turn a few heavy hitters on to kratom and I got laughed at. That was 20 years ago. No more. It does work for me, probably in the codeine range. I also do not find any of the other alkaloids bad at all. In fact most I can not feel. When I stop it is a very light opiate withdrawal.

I use to take 50 grams a day of leaf. The last few years I am down to 10 gr in the morning and 10 at night. Working my way down. Tapering is painless but the mind tugs and reminds us. But I find the plain leaf always works at the same level.

I am willing to bet this 7-OH ban will drag it's heals. Lots of posturing these days. And isn't tianeptine a lot stronger and sold all over? Yup, heals will be dragged. We will see. But I also understand from some regular posters here that 7-OH can be a heavy hitter but kicks up tolerance and is hard to quit compared to leaf.

The DEA's concern with it is pure hysteria too. I'm sure they get on sites like these & see people saying "it feels like oxycodone/heroin/etc!!"... And that's just gonna make them want to ban it, even though it's incredibly inferior to the aforementioned opioids. If it works for you though, that's great. But as some one who's use to tramadol, heroin & buprenorphine, I've never understood the hype around kratom, except for the fact that it's legal. But even though it's legal doesn't mean it's any good.

Agreed. Kratom is no oxycodone or heroin. It does work for me though so I run with it. But I often wonder if people that talk of shooting or snorting something strong are aware that speaking about it brings attention? I always said we have to be wise like an owl and sly like a fox. But someone will come on a harm reduction forum and ask if they can "shoot" this or that. Not a good optic. Just needs a little more discretion.

The plain leaf will remain for now. The pills who knows. The only control over them should be a quality control, not ban. I am all for over 18 laws but not total bans. And in 10 years we will have 5 other plants to look at. I bet someone will take chamomile and make a strong benzo from it. Then what?

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

Thank you, I have said that about myself too and got scoffed at. I have been drinking 2 cups of coffee every morning for 53 years. During Hurricane Alicia I was in Houston and my power got knocked out for 3 days. No coffee and I was a zombie and had such bad headaches. That was the only time I ever attemped to quit coffee. But i had quit kratom a few times and it was a pain in the ass but nothing like the heavier opioids. But I can not stop coffee and never will at this point.

Yea I love coffee too (but as you probably have seen here I like other stuff too lol). You know what’s funny, I never drank coffee my whole life until I turned 29. It was because I went to a detox/ rehab and in this particular rehab there was no coffee allowed. People were going crazy about it, and the counselors there kept telling everyone coffee is a drug too. So the first thing I did when I got out of rehab was try coffee lol … and have loved it since hehe