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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

There will ALWAYS be a next precursor, sad to say.

L-PAC is the obvious one for meth and there are some odd holes in the laws surrounding ring-substituted amphetamines, Some loopholes.
Propylhexedrine, sold under the brand name Benzedrex among others, is an alkylamine is one just off the top of my head without really thinking about it

Removing the benzene ring. This transforms methamphetamine's phenyl ring to a cyclohexyl moiety ie the propylhexedrine ring etc etc
 
Propylhexedrine, sold under the brand name Benzedrex among others, is an alkylamine is one just off the top of my head without really thinking about it

Removing the benzene ring. And subbing a propylhexedrine ring etc etc

Well quite. Thiophene ring analogue was an RC. Not a good one nor a safe one, but legal at the time. If you outlaw the compounds we have data on, people will start guessing and sooner or later bad things will happen.
 
I took some a few months ago and I think it was pretty good. I was drinking at the time but I did get the fish bowl effect with my vision and it made my pupils go to max.

I stupidly took cocaine on it and it has zero effect ( which apparently is correct) since mdma will override coke.
 
I took some a few months ago and I think it was pretty good. I was drinking at the time but I did get the fish bowl effect with my vision and it made my pupils go to max.

I stupidly took cocaine on it and it has zero effect ( which apparently is correct) since mdma will override coke.
Personally, the times I've done cocaine whilst on MDMA just took me out of my roll and into a coke high for about 30 min before picking back up with the roll, but weaker. In my opinion, coke and alcohol are both bully drugs that will take over from whatever else you might be doing. YMMV.
 
Personally, the times I've done cocaine whilst on MDMA just took me out of my roll and into a coke high for about 30 min before picking back up with the roll, but weaker. In my opinion, coke and alcohol are both bully drugs that will take over from whatever else you might be doing. YMMV.
I'm pretty sure NHTSA or similar has done a study ...
The study was conducted in accordance with the Declaration of Helsinki, approved by the local Institutional Review Board (Comité Ètic d’Investigació Clı́nica -Institut Municipal d’Assistència Sanitària), and authorized by the Dirección General de Farmacia y Productos Sanitarios (98/112) of the Spanish Ministry of Health. All volunteers gave the written informed consent before to inclusion in the study and were paid for their participation.



3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is frequently consumed in association with alcohol. The effect of this combination in humans has not been previously investigated. Nine male healthy volunteers received single oral doses of 100 mg of MDMA plus 0.8 g/kg ethanol, 100 mg of MDMA, 0.8 g/kg of ethanol, and placebo in a double blind, double dummy, randomized crossover trial. Measurements included psychomotor performance, subjective effects, and pharmacokinetics. Plasma concentrations of MDMA showed a 13% increase after the use of alcohol, whereas plasma concentrations of alcohol showed a 9 to 15% decrease after MDMA administration. The MDMA-alcohol combination induced longer lasting euphoria and well being than MDMA or alcohol alone. MDMA reversed the subjective sedation induced by alcohol but did not reduce drunkenness feelings. MDMA did not reverse the actions of alcohol on psychomotor abilities. Combined use of MDMA and alcohol causes dissociation between subjective and objective sedation. Subjects may feel euphoric and less sedated and might have the feeling of doing better, but actual performance ability continues to be impaired by the effect of alcohol. Confirmation of these findings in further studies will be highly relevant in terms of road safety.
To our knowledge, results of this study provide the first information in humans about the pharmacodynamics (psychomotor performance and subjective effects) and pharmacokinetics of MDMA and alcohol interactions. The administration of 100 mg of MDMA, a dose in the range of doses used recreationally (Gamella et al., 1997), produced subjective effects similar to own observations in a previous study in which 75 and 125 mg were used (Camı́ et al., 2000a). Similar feelings of euphoria, stimulation,

Our previous studies consistently showed that MDMA-induced locomotor hyperactivity is dramatically increased by coadministration of ethanol (EtOH) in rats, indicating possible potentiation of MDMA abuse liability. Thus, we aimed to identify the brain region(s) and neuropharmacological substrates involved in the pharmacodynamics of this potentiation.

We first showed that potentiation of locomotor activity by the combination of ip administration of EtOH (1.5 g/kg) and MDMA (6.6 mg/kg) is delay sensitive and maximal when both drugs are injected simultaneously. Then, we used the 2-deoxyglucose quantitative autoradiography technique to assess the impact of EtOH, MDMA, or their combination on local cerebral metabolic rates for glucose (CMRglcs). We showed a specific metabolic activation in the ventral striatum (VS) under MDMA + EtOH versus MDMA or EtOH alone. We next tested if reversible (tetrodotoxin, TTX) or permanent (6-hydrodoxyopamine, 6-OHDA) lesion of the VS could affect locomotor response to MDMA and MDMA + EtOH. Finally, we blocked dopamine D1 or glutamate NMDA receptors in the VS and measured the effects of MDMA and MDMA + EtOH on locomotor activity. We showed that bilateral reversible inactivation (TTX) or permanent lesion (6-OHDA) of the VS prevented the potentiation by EtOH of MDMA-induced locomotor hyperactivity. Likewise, blockade of D1 or NMDA receptors in the VS also reduced the potentiation of MDMA locomotor activity by EtOH. These data indicate that dopamine D1 and glutamate NMDA receptor-driven mechanisms in the VS play a key role in the pharmacodynamics of EtOH-induced potentiation of the locomotor effects of MDMA.


 
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So what does mixing cocaine and ecstacy feel like? Mixing Cocaine and ecstacy, a user would hope to feel increased euphoric effects of both drugs. However, ecstasy’s effects tend to override cocaine’s effects, once it has kicked in. Many poly drug users report that taking both drugs together is a waste of time and a waste of drugs.

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So what does mixing cocaine and ecstacy feel like? Mixing Cocaine and ecstacy, a user would hope to feel increased euphoric effects of both drugs. However, ecstasy’s effects tend to override cocaine’s effects, once it has kicked in. Many poly drug users report that taking both drugs together is a waste of time and a waste of drugs.

Copied this from a forum
Maybe if you did the cocaine first and then transitioned to MDMA, then yes, probably the MDMA would take over due to the fact that cocaine has a shorter duration of activity. However, I've made the mistake of doing coke mid-roll. In that scenario, the cocaine takes over the high, at least for yours truly and for several of my friends. We all ended up regretting not waiting until later to do the cocaine. And this makes sense if you think about it – cocaine acts as a triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor. And as we all know, one cannot roll while one is experiencing serotonin reuptake inhibition bc it prevents the drug from traveling up the serotonin transporter so it can have its effect on the pre-synaptic storage of serotonin. Best bet is to use the MDMA and four hours later use the cocaine during the comedown
 
Poly drug use should be in a thread of its own.
What is relevant here is the different effect of meh-MDMA taken with some drug (which I don't remember now) compared to the effect of the same drug with magic MDMA.
 
Poly drug use should be in a thread of its own.
What is relevant here is the different effect of meh-MDMA taken with some drug (which I don't remember now) compared to the effect of the same drug with magic MDMA.
Ok sorry
 
Look at the trismus, hyperkinesia and mydriasis in full lighting here !
Nowadays, we don't see these side effects anymore...
 
Look at the trismus, hyperkinesia and mydriasis in full lighting here !
Nowadays, we don't see these side effects anymore...
"We"? Are you speaking French or you have a frog in your pocket? I still see these side effects quite frequently in people on MDMA.
 
"We"? Are you speaking French or you have a frog in your pocket? I still see these side effects quite frequently in people on MDMA.
Must be the frog. Since when have you noticed a change ? What city are you in ? Is your MDMA from domestic production or imported ? If "imported" then from which country ?
 
Must be the frog.
Lollerskates.

Since when have you noticed a change ?
Well, sometime circa 2007, it became a little more difficult to procure legit, quality MDMA, and for me, this persisted until about 2013 and the quality has been back ever since then.

What city are you in ?
I live in New York City.

Is your MDMA from domestic production or imported ? If "imported" then from which country ?
Over the past dozen or so years, I've had both MDMA and MDA that were manufactured domestically in the U.S., and I've also sampled MDMA from The Netherlands, Germany, Chile and Columbia. Personally, I think the domestic stuff has been 🔥, and I'm not saying that out of some misplaced sense of American nationalism, either. I expected the Dutch shit to be superior to all, and while it's been good, too, I swear the domestic stuff I've had has been cleaner.
 
Aussie here.

One of the most interesting, informative and relatable threads I've come across, hats off to all the Brainiac's who contributed (even when the chemistry got a bit above my head). I've never really had that magical life changing roll that most have but I have some good times on it.

I most definitely had a run in with a bag of "MehDMA" crystals last year which put me off it for good. Looked the part colour/crystal wise, bit of liquorice on the nose, came up nice and purple on the Marquis, and on the purity EZTEST (not sure how reliable they are) gave a solid medium purity reaction.

I noticed some stark differences from previous experiences and at the time put it down to my own mindset and brain chemistry at the time.

My experience with "MehDMA"

Dosage:
150mg + 100mg 1 hour later.

Setting: Me + another couple that i'm close friends in the evening at my apartment.


1. Nystagmus (eye wobbles). Came on early, fast and strong and left just as quick. Wasn't particularly enjoyable either.

2. Coldness. As it kicked in I got those warm flushes briefly and stripped down a bit but it wasnt long before i had the heater back on again + jumper. Little bit sweaty

3. Empathy/sociability/feelings of connection did occur but they were very, very brief, we had maybe 30 minutes of really deep and meaningful conversation, I could tell the others were definitely much less inhibited than usual and we broached topics we normally wouldn't. In less than an hour after it kicked in we had all lost the motivation and were pretty much back to our regular old selves, perhaps even more inhibited than usual. I recall secretly wishing they would leave soon not long after this fell off.

4. Tactile enhancement, I rarely get this on my best of rolls but in this case I remember rubbing my legs expecting it to feel like the first big stretch of the day and wound up feeling like an idiot. Absolutely zilch

5. Energy. As it kicked in I did a bit of pacing around but very soon after it just wasn't there. Typically on a good roll I'll be running around all over the place for hours, chasing my friends, dancing, or pacing the room back and forth feeling quite satisfied with my decision to do so. In this experience we sat the entire time and even after my booster I was glued to my chair.

6. Duration. Took an hour to kick in, we got about 1hr of half-decent effects, then even with the booster we were fully coming down by hour 3-4. In the past the "roll" usually ends around 2-4 hours after ingestion for me but theres still a lot of pleasant lingering effects. There were 0 pleasant lingering effects. It ended abruptly and it was over.

7. Comedown. Extremely abrupt. No afterglow, no positive outlook the next day nor anhenodia, it just all of a sudden fell out from beneath us and that was that. No desire for introspection or any sudden insights. The next day I was pretty much back to my old self, nothing good or bad.
 
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I think the domestic stuff has been 🔥, and I'm not saying that out of some misplaced sense of American nationalism, either. I expected the Dutch shit to be superior to all, and while it's been good, too, I swear the domestic stuff I've had has been cleaner.
Agreed. I suspect this is because the Dutch/Belgian MDMA is more frequently produced in superlabs, while domestic labs are generally smaller. Whether a smaller lab takes more care or not, a lab might lose some level of efficiency when scaling to industrial levels would be my guess. Even growing massive chunks of crystals in plastic totes and buckets could entrap more impurities within the crystal lattice.

Well, sometime circa 2007, it became a little more difficult to procure legit, quality MDMA, and for me, this persisted until about 2013 and the quality has been back ever since then.
Agreed again. So much so that you know that I don't love this thread a whole lot. I haven't really seen mehMDMA since circa 2012 tbh. But I probably am a little more tapped in than an average consumer. I haven't bought MDMA from a stranger since the DNM golden age. Here is my theory.

Massive seizures of safrole around 2006-8 forced chemists to source their precursor from different and less desirable plants or synthetic sources (say benzodioxole), you could definitely expect a drop in quality due to the process not being as easy or as well understood. It was around this same time that we started to see more and more cathinone substitutes like methylone. I was always curious how there were precursors for methylone but not MDMA around this time. Safrole production seemed to continue (we saw this on the silk road that people were again able to order safrole in gallon quantities) and then the advent of the PMK glycidates (which I believe must be produced entirely synthetically...) we saw the slow and steady return of good MDMA that continues to this day afaik... There probably is mehMDMA out there, I just haven't seen it for years.
 
Aussie here.

One of the most interesting, informative and relatable threads I've come across, hats off to all the Brainiac's who contributed (even when the chemistry got a bit above my head). I've never really had that magical life changing roll that most have but I have some good times on it.

I most definitely had a run in with a bag of "MehDMA" crystals last year which put me off it for good. Looked the part colour/crystal wise, bit of liquorice on the nose, came up nice and purple on the Marquis, and on the purity EZTEST (not sure how reliable they are) gave a solid medium purity reaction.

I noticed some stark differences from previous experiences and at the time put it down to my own mindset and brain chemistry at the time.

My experience with "MehDMA"
Good summary of a typical MehDMA experience.
I find it very strange that no researcher haven't tried to get to the bottom of this conundrum after such a long time.
 
Does anybody else think that our brains’ constantly being assaulted by various things which induce frequent “micro dumps” of neurotransmitters (years’ worth of bad food, commercials/TV programs designed to cause these responses, smartphones etc.) is also a driving factor in drugs like this being “different” than those of yesteryear?

Lab tested, pure MDMA is more readily available than ever, to anybody with an internet connection. This should be the best of the best.

I think the way the world is now, with pleasure devices in the palms of our hands constantly, the behavioral changes of humans as a whole, has a lot bigger impact on this than we realize. I also think people who took “the best stuff” at raves in the late 90s and early 2000s simply had not been exposed to as much “euphoric” opportunities as today. Their brains were far more sensitive to it. And if you believe in any sort of collective consciousness, that’s a whole other layer to consider.
 
I had just half of a pill last night and it took about 35 minutes to kick in but I definitely felt it. Was proper jaw clenching and big pupils. I did slightly more and beer was flowing. Soon I could hardly speak properly 🤮🤮.
 
I find it very strange that no researcher haven't tried to get to the bottom of this conundrum after such a long time.
That's because there's no conundrum. It's not an issue. No researcher cares if a handful of illicit MDMA users complain that "it's not what it used to be" for them. There would be no money in researching it, and a hodgepodge of random anecdotes is not compelling evidence worthy of research.

In short, this is a non-issue. I assure you good MDMA is out there. Get a new plug and get some good MDMA and you'll see what I mean. And I'm not saying that to you directly, @PsychedelicSummer – for your sake I hope you're able to find proper MDMA – I"m saying this to anyone and everyone in general who really thinks there's something wrong with "today's MDMA". Res ipsa loquitur.
 
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