Global Events The Middle East - Palestine, Israel, and Iran
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Cream Gravy?
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^I think the whole Middle East thing will be over sooner than later. Probably for the best. I enjoy watching the Iron Dome interception vids, never seen anything quite like it in all my years of studying warfare. Love it.
There has been no conflict thus far quite so modern. Iran is the last bastion of organized Islamic extremism with any real clout. If Israel can finish what their neighbors started a year and a half back it'll bring a new era of stability to the region the likes of which haven't been seen since the Ottoman's ran things.
There has been no conflict thus far quite so modern. Iran is the last bastion of organized Islamic extremism with any real clout. If Israel can finish what their neighbors started a year and a half back it'll bring a new era of stability to the region the likes of which haven't been seen since the Ottoman's ran things.
the only reason that Iran has those people in charge is because they were viewed as incorruptible by the US/UK/EU
the root issue is the foreign policy of US/UK/EU
Cream Gravy?
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Huh? Khomeini was inserted during the 1979 revolution, by extremists who then fought a protracted war against their Sunni neighbors. They freakin' invented the modern child soldier. Gruesome shit that was completely avoidable but one branch of one Islamic sect went off the deep end... I don't see why secularism as international policy caused the absolute destruction of any sort of freedoms in Iran.
The issues in Iran stem from extremism dating back 45 years that should have been dealt with ages ago. They haven't got anything to do with western policies. Saying that Iran's brand of Islam is a logical reaction to secularism's spread is like saying that it's logical for me to shoot my neighbor because I'm Catholic and they're Baptist.
I didn't say anything about secularism, I said they wouldn't be manipulated by foreign states
Extremists who wrestled away power from a weak Shah who'd been inserted by the western allies and their corporate interests after the CIA helped to overthrow the popularly elected PM Mohammad Mosaddegh, whose policies included nationalization of Iranian oil was not seen as favorable by western oil companies and the US. Further, he was seen as friendly to communist Russia and that was obviously a no go for the US's interests (as evidenced by our incessant proxy wars throughout most of the world during this time).
Cream Gravy?
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Okay.
Cream Gravy?
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I honestly don’t see why you can’t separate morality from right and wrong here. It is wrong to meddle in the sovereign affairs of foreign nations, but is not immoral if the goal is to provide for the general benefit of the whole planet. The whole world has an interest in removing religious extremism from the planet, and Iran is the center of those extremes and has been for decades.
Whatever reasons that might have led to the Iranian Revolution are not the point; the point is that the end product of a regime hellbent on exterminating all non-believers must be remedied. There is no such thing as peaceful coexistence with Iran’s current regime. They will use nuclear weapons if they do procure them.
Tell me how it is in anyone’s interest for the current regime of Iran to continue its operations and to continue enriching uranium please. We’re talking about the big picture here, can you see that? In what reality does anyone here desire to be converted to Shi’a Islam or otherwise be killed?
If that doesn’t make any sense then I’m out of argument. This is a black and white issue here. Us (most of the planet to include most Muslims) vs them. They would kill us all if they could and personally I cannot abide that.
Whatever reasons that might have led to the Iranian Revolution are not the point; the point is that the end product of a regime hellbent on exterminating all non-believers must be remedied. There is no such thing as peaceful coexistence with Iran’s current regime. They will use nuclear weapons if they do procure them.
Tell me how it is in anyone’s interest for the current regime of Iran to continue its operations and to continue enriching uranium please. We’re talking about the big picture here, can you see that? In what reality does anyone here desire to be converted to Shi’a Islam or otherwise be killed?
If that doesn’t make any sense then I’m out of argument. This is a black and white issue here. Us (most of the planet to include most Muslims) vs them. They would kill us all if they could and personally I cannot abide that.
who are you to decide what is best for the whole planet
Iran wasn't the center for extremism when the US decided to overthrow PM Mohammad Mosaddegh - they were liberal and cosmopolitan. It was his desire to nationalize oil fields for the benefit of Iranian interests that lead to western interest in overthrowing the government and installing an unpopular, western friendly Shah. The Shah's government fomented dissent which fueled religious extremism and subsequently created the substrate which produced the 1979 revolution leading to the regime you now know and dislike.
Yeah but what about my kebabs and halal products if Iran is disposed? Where will I go? What will we all do??
The real tragedy in all of this is that the global economy is pegged to oil, and a third of that oil passes through the Persian Gulf. It's alright for Israel and Iran to dick about with each other, but I hope Israel understands that if they cause Iran to fuck up the global economy by deliberately setting fire and mining that Persian Gulf then they're going to find themselves without public support.
The cynic in me thinks this is all geopolitical games anyway. The Anglo-American establishment basically created the modern Middle East. The Royals and MI6 chief still go out there (Oman I think) yearly to have a little chit-chat, about weapons and oil. We're approaching 2030, so anything could happen - cliché at this point, but we're currently overdue another 'once in a lifetime' event since Covid.
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Iran is essentially a rogue state imo. Fuelled by decades of fukkery by mainly the US… but we are where we are.
Israel’s unprovoked attacks are a breach of international law… just like their genocide in Gaza.
As such, Israel is now also a rogue state.
There are no winners in this fight. Only losers.
Israel’s unprovoked attacks are a breach of international law… just like their genocide in Gaza.
As such, Israel is now also a rogue state.
There are no winners in this fight. Only losers.
Iran I don't think is necessarily rogue, they're trying to be independent of foreign influence. Israel on the other hand, is directly controlled by the US and is constantly attacking anything that moves in the region, and even stuff that doesn't
Which group of fucking arseholes has continually backed Islamist extremists? The US and their good friend Israel. Now why did they do this in 79 you may ask? Wel basically keep the Commies out at all costs. The US or Israel could really give 2 fucks about Islamists
Shambles
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I take your point. “Rogue” was the wrong word. They are an authoritarian theocracy though which is definitely not the way forward…. But, again, Israel are right up there with them on those fronts
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I guess the more rational person in this discussion? This ain’t based on emotion here.
But okay, if there’s no point in the discussion I’ll leave y’all to it. I just thought I’d ask one final question and unsurprisingly I got the answers I expected.
you’re still talking about the past and not the present. And in doing so, dodging the questions I posed in the reply you quoted.
I believe the term “can’t see the forest for the trees” is apt here. There’s the big picture and then there’s quibbling about “what should have been.” What should have been, cannot be, because it is not and we are not inter dimensional time travelers. So if you don’t wish to answer this reality, that’s fine, I just hope you realize it’s a sort of way of saying “I’m gonna stick my head in the sand because we should all just always get along and I refuse to grasp that conflict is a part of reality.”
going back to what I just said above. We are where we are and I don’t see why fussing about Cold War conflicts and policy is an excuse to say you know what, Islamic extremists deserve hugs, not bombs. Because they would throw your hugs ina fire and then throw you right on top of it for being a dirty infidel.
I tried y’all I really tried. Have fun in your alternate realities.
My wife told me about the ‘dead internet theory’ today, hadn’t heard of it. Starting to believe it.
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Your lot put these cunts in power. Dont go whinging when they turn around and bite you
no you're just assuming that you, or our governments for some reason, know what's best for everyone on the planet
you don't see how conceited that is?
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My lot? Do explain.
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I can see why you’d call it conceited, but I also believe you are deliberately obtuse and would argue against anything and everything if it meant sticking up for the mythical “little man”.
I’m not saying any one or group of governments has the right answers but they damn sure have the responsibility to try and right the wrongs. And at least Israel is trying, even if it is wrong in its reasoning. It is existentialism pure and simple.