US Politics the 2025 trump presidency thread

[-=SS=-]

the reason that "illegal immigrant" is inaccurate is because in the US crossing the border or overstaying a visa is a civil offense not a criminal one, the only difference is documentation which most undocumented immigrants are in the process of obtaining

Annnnnd this is why our nations across the West are falling to pieces. Playing semantics, trying to obfuscate the reality of the situation. Same playbook being used in Europe, "irregular immigration", calling young men with designer clothes and iphones who have traversed several thousand miles to get here "refugees"..

It's absolute nonsense. You can't have millions of people pouring into nations through illegal channels and then hand wave it away by saying "they're seeking the proper documentation". Well I mean you can, but then you get what we've gotten in the EU, which is rapidly rising rates of crimes particularly of a violent and sexual nature, and crushing the economic situation for the people who were born and bred in these nations because 21st nation states have limited room to expand (housing, jobs, economy, culture).

You do realize your rhetoric and ideological standpoint is precisely why this is all going to end in bloodshed, right? This shit isn't going to just magically go away.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

It was constructive in that it was meant to get posters to think about their behaviors.

I guess I could just post a tweet without adding context beyond a smiley face. Would that be preferred?

OT: Whether something breaks civil or criminal law it is illegal. For instance, my speeding was illegal but not criminal.

someone seeking asylum has not committed a crime, many people getting deported are even waiting for or getting arrested at their immigration hearings which 98%+ of immigrants show up for. they're getting deported for following the process

 

[JahBeeuS]

someone seeking asylum has not committed a crime

Seeking asylum is not a crime but that does not mean someone seeking asylum hasn't committed a crime.

, many people getting deported are even waiting for or getting arrested at their immigration hearings which 98%+ of immigrants show up for. they're getting deported for following the process

Seems like the process is working then.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Seeking asylum is not a crime but that does not mean someone seeking asylum hasn't committed a crime.

Seems like the process is working then.

perhaps you need to reread the words I wrote

people are getting deported for going through the proper process which is not the system working

 

[JahBeeuS]

perhaps you need to reread the words I wrote

people are getting deported for going through the proper process which is not the system working

Or maybe they don't qualify for asylum? Maybe they didn't fill out the proper form? Maybe they didn't check in properly? Maybe they were working before they should have been without papers? Idk, without knowing why they were getting arrested / deported I dont think you can say the system isn't working.

 

[-=SS=-]

someone seeking asylum has not committed a crime

Why are you using words interchangeably - rhetorical question.

If someone has come across the border illegally then they are an illegal migrant.
If someone has applied for asylum from their host nation, then they are an asylum seeker (and may be accepted/denied).. this is the legitimate route, and we can have a discussion about criteria of that too.
If someone is fleeing persecution then they are a refugee but only on the condition that they seek refuge in the first sovereign state they cross into.

The overwhelming majority are economic migrants, not asylum seekers or refugees. It's the same in the EU.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

You can argue the logic of various levels on immigration if you like. There's right and wrong on both sides of that.
That's not the point at present. The problem in America right now is the rule of law. ICE is using Gestapo tactics and not following the procedures the law requires. They are violating people's rights, even vanilla US citizens. A friend has relatives in LA and they say people are getting tear gassed for videoing ICE doing their raids.

A good and a big example is the lack of due process. Due process is a right given to all in America no matter citizenship or legal status. Trump has said that if he used due process it would take too long to carry out his deportations. Sorry, but that's just how it is. The ends don't justify the means, even if I did agree with the ends.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Or maybe they don't qualify for asylum? Maybe they didn't fill out the proper form? Maybe they didn't check in properly? Maybe they were working before they should have been without papers? Idk, without knowing why they were getting arrested / deported I dont think you can say the system isn't working.

the problem is that we don't know because they get arrested before any hearings. due process exists for a reason

its absurd to tear apart a family because someone forgot to check a box, that's what filing an amendment is for

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Watch the cop to the left. He's watching the reporter and then finally takes aim and shoots her.

Dude I saw that too but from her camera you could see the guy line her up if you watch. I believe that is the same protest I will be attending. (in a different location of course).

Who woulda thought electing a 34x felon sexual predator whose main motivation to run was stay out of prison for treasonous-ish behavior would backfire. Can an entire country be a cult??

Too many ppl are still pretending or convincing themselves things are going well. The display of stupidity is vastly overwhelming. Only one thing to do with a rabid dog. (Yes I realize I'm basically a flea on that dog but w/e do what ya gotta)

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Dude I saw that too but from her camera you could see the guy line her up if you watch. I believe that is the same protest I will be attending. (in a different location of course).

Who woulda thought electing a 34x felon sexual predator whose main motivation to run was stay out of prison for treasonous-ish behavior would backfire. Can an entire country be a cult??

Too many ppl are still pretending or convincing themselves things are going well. The display of stupidity is vastly overwhelming. Only one thing to do with a rabid dog. (Yes I realize I'm basically a flea on that dog but w/e do what ya gotta)

Are you near LA?

 

[tryptakid]

You do realize your rhetoric and ideological standpoint is precisely why this is all going to end in bloodshed, right? This shit isn't going to just magically go away.

That's the worst part of all of it - it is definitely not going to go away. Climate change is a big driver of immigration, as are woefully unrealistic options for immigration, incredibly low risk/reward ratios on going outside the miniscule channels that do exist, and way too many reasons for people to want to leave situations that have been made unbearable do begin with, often because of the effects of economic expansionism, corruption, and corporatism. Add in the blending of very different cultural norms, religious values, and a lack of clear assimilation for those who do immigrate (as you've mentioned previously) and it doesn't bode well for any of this to simply improve.

The problem I see now is that immigration crackdowns are capturing innocent people without due process within the same broad sweep as people who may have been on a legitimate path, people who have immigrated outside of legal channels and who had not intention of attempting to rectify their status, in addition to citizens who simply do not support authoritarian and coercive state actions which involve shooting civilians who are exercising their right to assembly and protest. It's become more focused on finding a reason to pick a fight with the other view, and there's nothing being done to solve any of these issues.

 

[alasdairm]

If someone has come across the border illegally then they are an illegal migrant.
If someone has applied for asylum from their host nation, then they are an asylum seeker (and may be accepted/denied).

this is not accurate.

individuals can apply for asylum even if their entry to the u.s. was illegal. asylum applications do not need to be made from the origin country to be valid. (source: USCIS)

that said, entering the u.s. illegally may still lead to criminal charges even if the person goes on to seek asylum.

tl;dr the terms illegal immigrant and asylum seeker are not mutually exclusive.

alasdair

 

[Quasimoto]

I'm so tired of the GOP continuing to blame Biden for their own shortcomings and mismanagement. Not very alpha male of them, that's beta shit. I guess that's what you get when you elect incompetant TV personalities to office.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

this is not accurate.

individuals can apply for asylum even if their entry to the u.s. was illegal. asylum applications do not need to be made from the origin country to be valid. (source: USCIS)

that said, entering the u.s. illegally may still lead to criminal charges even if the person goes on to seek asylum.

tl;dr the terms illegal immigrant and asylum seeker are not mutually exclusive.

alasdair

"To seek asylum, you must already be in the U.S. and believe you will be in danger of persecution if you return to your country. Learn how to seek asylum and sponsor someone else."

How to seek asylum in the U.S. | USAGov

Learn how to seek asylum in the United States. If you already have been granted asylum, find out if you can sponsor your family to join you.

www.usa.gov

****************************************
AI Overview

The most common ways to seek asylum in the United States are through affirmative asylum and defensive asylum. Affirmative asylum is for those who are not already in removal proceedings, while defensive asylum is for those who are already facing deportation.
******************************************

A lot of this stuff has changed to a certain degree and I really don't feel like researching it again, but the most common way to seek asylum used to be to illegally cross the border and then turn yourself in and seek asylum. Turning yourself in would be affirmative asylum.




So yeah, many "illegals" are people going through the proper channels to be legal. The hearings take a while and so they are not held in custody while they are in this process (disparaging term for this - "catch and release")

90% have historically shown up for all hearings. With ICE grabbing them for deportation at those hearings now, I'm sure this will change.

 

[-=SS=-]

individuals can apply for asylum even if their entry to the u.s. was illegal. asylum applications do not need to be made from the origin country to be valid. (source: USCIS)

Yeah but in the context of the current situation, in the USA and Europe, what percentage of these people do you think actually fit the criteria/definition of someone genuinely seeking asylum.

I have no bones about saying I think the overwhelming majority, in both geographical contexts, are completely full of shit and just looking for a meal ticket and not fleeing actual persecution. I mean you can't claim Mexicans are fleeing persecution, and the people coming to the UK are traversing 1000+ miles to get here which is complete bullshit.. there's numerous countries on that journey that are completely safe to reside in (they are coming here out of economics).

And even with the genuine cases, I mean America is a bit different, the UK simply can not accommodate millions of extra bodies. We have to draw the line somewhere out of self preservation, we can not just take on the whole world; and that question is never answered by the left or political class, where the line actually is, at what point is it just suicide to keep on trying to cram more people into the life boat. You can't save everybody.

Also to be frank, I don't think we should either. Culturally it's foolish. It's not the only reason why our cultures are degrading, far from it, but taking on millions of people who don't belong here, who are looking at our nations like meal tickets, it is degrading us on a cultural level and not just economically. You take LA or London, the places have lost all respectability, crime is soaring, trust is diminished, there is no sense of place or true community (not the diversity faux-community bullshit). The people who were already there, native Americans or Brit's, have lost a fabric that was allowing prosperity and happiness to increase, and now it's reversing. That kind of fabric takes generations to build.

 

[tryptakid]

Yeah but in the context of the current situation, in the USA and Europe, what percentage of these people do you think actually fit the criteria/definition of someone genuinely seeking asylum.

I have no bones about saying I think the overwhelming majority, in both geographical contexts, are completely full of shit and just looking for a meal ticket and not fleeing actual persecution. I mean you can't claim Mexicans are fleeing persecution, and the people coming to the UK are traversing 1000+ miles to get here which is complete bullshit.. there's numerous countries on that journey that are completely safe to reside in (they are coming here out of economics).

And even with the genuine cases, I mean America is a bit different, the UK simply can not accommodate millions of extra bodies. We have to draw the line somewhere out of self preservation, we can not just take on the whole world; and that question is never answered by the left or political class, where the line actually is, at what point is it just suicide to keep on trying to cram more people into the life boat. You can't save everybody.

Also to be frank, I don't think we should either. Culturally it's foolish. It's not the only reason why our cultures are degrading, far from it, but taking on millions of people who don't belong here, who are looking at our nations like meal tickets, it is degrading us on a cultural level and not just economically. You take LA or London, the places have lost all respectability, crime is soaring, trust is diminished, there is no sense of place or true community (not the diversity faux-community bullshit). The people who were already there, native Americans or Brit's, have lost a fabric that was allowing prosperity and happiness to increase, and now it's reversing. That kind of fabric takes generations to build.

The US and Britain are hard to compare given that almost all American citizens are only a few generations removed from immigration themselves (baring the descendants of indigenous Americans. Our culture has had an average share of the overall population of about 15% immigrant since the 1850s up through today (according to Pew). Our culture is literally rooted in multiculturalism.

 

[-=SS=-]

Our culture is literally rooted in multiculturalism.

Not really. Little enclaves and pockets of parallel cultures doesn't make it multicultural, that word gets thrown around like it actually has weight when it really doesn't. There is always the culture of a nation, and other little pockets can exist within it.. but there has never been actual multiculturalism.. it doesn't exist because it doesn't work. This is why national borders exist in the first place, it literally defines the boundaries of a cultural system. The dominant culture was always very much twinned with national identity.

It's guff saying we're multicultural or "a nation of immigrants". Total bollocks. There is more about a cultural identity than just seeing people as interchangeable tax revenue units, which is what we're being conditioned to accept these days (under the obfuscating banner of diversity and all the rest).

Cultural identity. True community. Family. Relationships. Friendships. All aspects that make up the cultural fabric, held together by shared values and experience, which have all been under systematic attack for decades now in order to destabilize the culture and make it ripe for subversion. The whole immigrant situation is just one wedge of several being used to break that fabric.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Yeah but in the context of the current situation, in the USA and Europe, what percentage of these people do you think actually fit the criteria/definition of someone genuinely seeking asylum.

quite frankly it doesn't matter what you or I think, that's what the courts are for. the same courts that during the process of this decision that are being invaded by ICE agents without a judicial warrant

disobeying judges and arresting judges. what happened to rule of law? due process?

or do we just now decide arbitrarily on what fits the biases the media gives us?

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Not really. Little enclaves and pockets of parallel cultures doesn't make it multicultural, that word gets thrown around like it actually has weight when it really doesn't. There is always the culture of a nation, and other little pockets can exist within it.. but there has never been actual multiculturalism.. it doesn't exist because it doesn't work. This is why national borders exist in the first place, it literally defines the boundaries of a cultural system. The dominant culture was always very much twinned with national identity.

It's guff saying we're multicultural or "a nation of immigrants". Total bollocks. There is more about a cultural identity than just seeing people as interchangeable tax revenue units, which is what we're being conditioned to accept these days (under the obfuscating banner of diversity and all the rest).

Cultural identity. True community. Family. Relationships. Friendships. All aspects that make up the cultural fabric, held together by shared values and experience, which have all been under systematic attack for decades now in order to destabilize the culture and make it ripe for subversion. The whole immigrant situation is just one wedge of several being used to break that fabric.

you make it sound like information never gets exchanged between groups, in a complex system nearly all parts have some impact on each other