Yeah, I highly doubt that.
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S&T Moderators: Skorpio | VerbalTruist
Is A.I. waiting to take over ?
- Thread starter MedicinalUser247
- Start date
Yeah, I highly doubt that.
These tech leaders are all trying to sell a vision on behalf of their paymasters; the elite are technocrat, transhumanists, who want a global slave farm that can be managed with the push of a button.
They need the public to buy into this crap, because if we reject it then they'll have to force it instead and that's much harder.
kiely
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2022
- Messages
- 13,776
Conspiracy theorists of the world. It's better to be SCARED . Than HORRIFIED.
I do have some fantastic source and link topics I have scanned and I am bookmarked in now.
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See like auto check wanted to change my than to then. What ?? loool Totally different context.
edit : rotf
I do have some fantastic source and link topics I have scanned and I am bookmarked in now.
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See like auto check wanted to change my than to then. What ?? loool Totally different context.
edit : rotf
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Aye, most applications are 'business', such as doing code work or analyzing data for some commercial process. But there is the 'learning to learn' or even reading for relaxation. There are multiple layers to what you can gain from that: The content directly, the method of writing by the author, how things are presented, etc. There is a LOT more to be taken in if the reader spends the time and has the awareness. Something you can't get from cliff notes (the AI summary), or watching the movie version.
Yes, and compared to the quote above, we each individually have to assess the purpose of the learning and the investment we're willing/able to make.
Don't take my title away and give it to someone else for being old and crotchety, dagnabit.
Tho, many of us lament the next generation getting lazier...I look at cell phones for an example. We don't know people's numbers, instead we know where in the phone to access it = smaller effort, much wider access. Similarly, these smart devices deliver the internet's available information (where to eat, how to get there, what is the menu), a TON of more information available to us we never would have considered asking about a generation or two ago. So, more data available, and while we aren't necessarily smarter human beings (our processing hasn't really improved), we do have a wider array of mental capabilities thanks to this technology. Do I have a point to this? Idunno...just kinda rambling
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
There is an AI programmer from the community who has asked about learning from BL's data set. The intent is to build a chatbot type entity that can call upon the wisdom and experience of BL. I think it focused on the discord platform first, but there is a desire to incorporate the forum's information as well. Bottom line, someone's on it
This is what the tech-bros and their little cultural nerdlings in Generation Y/Z/A don't really understand. That information ≠ intelligence. It permeates the entire discussion about the current state of AI, and the hype-train actors continue to ignore it.
And what do you get as a result? Young people who have relied on AI to do intellectual work for them, then when actually confronted about their depth of knowledge they fall to pieces.. because information is ≠ to intelligence and they don't understand the concepts beyond the information.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
That's one way to see it. Even in middle school, I remember Sister Mary Elephant telling us “memorization is the lost art.” This is a valid enough complaint, but it's all in how we choose to see it. Labeling an entire generation as "lazy" bc of new technology designed by older generations seems capricious, unhelpful, and doom-and-gloom dramatic. And anyway perhaps not having all these numbers stored in our brain just frees up space for other memories. Idk how true that is (and I still remember phone numbers from childhood FWIW) but there are probably 20x the phone numbers now considering the mass proliferation of broadband cellular, the ubiquity of affordable cell phones & smartphone technology and a larger population now … it's not exactly fair to expect people to have all these numbers memorized, not when virtually every person over the age of 13 has their own dedicated phone line…
Quasi-arbitrary numbers are inherently difficult to remember anyway. That's why we don't typically use numerical IP addresses for websites but prefer URLs for obvious reasons. Contacts in a phone are a much better method for personal directory services… I mean, no one shit on ppl for using a Rolodex back in the day, ya know…
Also, don't get me wrong – I love to tease Gen Z people about how they're technically the “Tide Pod Challenge” generation, but honestly: what things do you look forward to from the future generations, and in what ways do you think they'll be more suited and qualified to shape the world, civilization, and modern societies? Or do you think there's no hope and society is cooked?
Seems like you have personal beef. "Little cultural nerdlings"? Gotdayyem … The term is "brogrammer" anyways, lol. Don't be the reason everyone ignores our generation and calls us "Boomers" (despite being Gen X, but that also kinda figures for our “slacker” generation, praise Bob)…
Tell that to the CIA.
Broad sweeping over-generalizations don't help your argument, you know.
Oh I see… so you're an optimist
For really, this curmudgeon energy is going overboard, and I say that w/all due respect. We may not always agree, you & I, but I do respect your intellect, and you definitely have some good warnings/points. But why are you so fully convinced of these shitty outcomes? Why are you so sure this is the only way it can end? You really don't think anyone will make good use of these tools? Also, young people aren't the only ones using it…Also, it doesn't matter if you call it "AI", "large language models", or "chopped cheese sandwiches"; they've already stuck the name "AI" on it, and it's a brief, easy thing to say, so it will persist. Same like calling people "white" or "black" – it's inaccurate, loaded w/cultural prejudice, and hella polarizing – but "white" & "black" are monosyllabic, while "Caucasian" and "African-American" (or "African-[insert nationality]") take too long to say. … Just like "drug addict" is easier and quicker to say than "person with substance abuse disorder", pejorative shading be damned. The public will often choose convenience and brevity over quality and/or precision. Remind you of anything?
And why not? Who doesn't like linguistic shortcuts? Like stereotypes ☞ yeah they can be annoying sometimes, and they're not always accurate, but when they are, boy are they tremendous time-savers (again: sound familiar?), which is why they're so common. But meanwhile the public is already figuring out the limits of what current so-called "AI" can do. Like the lawyers who got into professional trouble after trying to use it to do legal research, and then not double-check it, only to discover that it was quoting non-existent caselaw. Oopsie. But you don't blame the technology for this – and neither did the judge – you blame the foolish ass lawyers for trying to take a risky shortcut with a tool they did not understand.
Ultimately, it's probably not the thing of real worry here. The more dystopian concern I have is in how militaries are planning – or in some cases already using – human detecting AI in drones and missiles and shit like that. I don't love the idea of homicidal slaughterbot drones hovering the countryside looking for “military combatants” with ~68% accuracy at delineating civilians from soldiers… that sorta grim Dark-Mirror-type shit. … The concern it's making a generation lazy is just the same, rehashed bellyaching trope the cranky older generation loves to complain about the younger ones, tale as old as time. Young people are notoriously lazy according to their stereotype, right?
The idea of an AI LLM tripsitter bot seems like a pretty good one. I searched, and it exists already, but I see lots of room for improvements in a competitor (so to speak): https://www.yeschat.ai/gpts-9t55QZhsriK-TripsitterThere is an AI programmer from the community who has asked about learning from BL's data set. The intent is to build a chatbot type entity that can call upon the wisdom and experience of BL. I think it focused on the discord platform first, but there is a desire to incorporate the forum's information as well. Bottom line, someone's on it
Oh I see… so you're an optimist
I'm Gen Y. The place where my criticism comes from, and why I'm so cynical, is because I've witnessed over the past two decades how the majority of my generation thinks on a variety of topics.. and how much their thinking process is inadequate. This applies to all generations broadly, and there is always a percentage of the population that are not so switched on, that fall more into the 'instinctual' category than the intellectual.The concern it's making a generation lazy is just the same, rehashed bellyaching trope the cranky older generation loves to complain about the younger ones, tale as old as time. Young people are notoriously lazy according to their stereotype, right?
But it's not just about making young people lazy, but specifically intellectually lazy. Thinking, intellect, is an acquired skill. It's not a given. My concern is that when you introduce a technology that is clearly going to decrease intellectual ability generation wide from a young age, well.. what implications do you think that has for society at large? Democracy? Cultural habits? Interpersonal relations?
It's not going to end well, because these technologies have been deliberately made pivotal to our daily lives and ability to function in society. This is why the British government is not saying "we must do something to reduce screens/computers for children".. but "we must ban content to protect the children".. all this technology is clearly being taken as a given in children's lives.
There is a regression going on already, which has accelerated with each new piece of technology. Even between my generation and those not even 10 years younger.. there is a noticeable difference in ability and mind state, due to them growing up with smart phones and full-on internet culture. It has damaged them.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Ah okay then, well you're in your 30s at least… Look it's fine to speculate, but it's unwise to be too certain of a thing. History shows us that truth is stranger than fiction, and it's rare someone can accurately predict complex situations involving tons of people and various factors to take in to the point of being virtually impossible to see where it's all headed; i.e.: it's fairly difficult to predict the future. People have a way of surprising each other, you know.
You're assuming too much… "clearly going to decrease intellectual ability"? Clearly? No, there's nothing clear about that, and I disagree with your assessment, likening it to the fear math teacher's had in the 1970s of allowing students to use calculators. Are we further in mathematics since the 70s, or did calculators make everyone "intellectually lazy"? There's no need for this level of paranoia and fear.
You know how programming languages offer levels of abstraction so we can focus on bigger details? Something like that. Or how about when photography technology took off and suddenly anyone could be a photographer? Did that represent the end of all painted art like some artists feared? No, they moved on to newer forms of expression. Yes, change is coming. It always is. Yes, there are likely implications. Embrace these things as they come, perhaps gently bend them to your will, but do not break the flow and try to swim upstream for no reason. I sense a lot of fear in you. Don't fear change. It's okay. You're smart and resourceful; you will find a way, and society is gonna be fine despite some hiccups and speed bumps along the path. And I'm not making a technocrat argument there. I think when things push too far in one direction the pendulum eventually swings back and we'll see future generations embracing more balance to the so-called digital life. It's not all Doom & Gloom, Inc.™ you know?
It never does. No one gets out of this alive. Don't take it too seriously. It's just a long-but-also-short ride. Try to enjoy it, smile and laugh at the absurdity. Don't forget we're all in this together. I know that sounds trite, but that doesn't make it untrue.
You mean like how it was for us with… microwaves, color televisions, automobiles, calculators, personal computers, handguns, vaccines, antibiotics, eventually the internet, pagers & cellphones (& two-ways), shopping malls, cable television, compact discs, power steering, Interstate Highways, washing machines, the awareness of micro-organisms like bacteria & viruses, power brakes, airbags, refrigeration, air conditioning, anesthesia, running shoes, velcro, bicycles, books & the printing press, the energy grid, modern medical science, and on & on, you get the idea. Nothing really changes, just rearranges. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss…
Yeah that's not new. And there's no fixing dumb, goddamn it. And people are pretty fucking dumb overall, or at least, that is one way to see things. I tend to see it with a bit less cynicism when I recall the ways seemingly cattle-like dumb-dumbs will hit me w/something profoundly insightful, or simple-yet-clever bits of wisdom, or sheer genius I almost accidentally overlooked. You ever notice that oftentimes rich people are in fact not exactly the brainiest motherfuckers on the planet? Yet somehow they have that knack for making money that is its own sort of separate genius? You can learn from them. The point is: don't fall into the trap of feeling isolated by your intellect. Stay humble and let others teach you. Give things a chance, look for silver linings and golden opportunities.
Pfff, listen to me ranting on like I know what I'm talking about, barking orders and lobbing suggestions at you like I have any clue what's going to happen next. Sorry about that. I don't know what's coming next, I doubt anyone really does. I can just tell you what's worked for me so far, and it involves not worrying too much about the things I have no control over. You know, I'm trying to accept what I can't change about the world, muster up the courage to change what I can, and to have the wisdom to know the difference, to paraphrase a famous prayer.
But dammit man, there are also some really, really fucking smart people out there, too, whom I've had the pleasure of knowing. Don't lose faith, young Jedi. Anger is a path to the Dark Side. There is no Darth Artificial Insidious, and it's not Jar-Jar either… more like… C3PO I guess. You know, the Nipponese have really culturally embraced all early forms of "AI" and they have a much more optimistic outlook on the matter, FWIW. Maybe it won't be all iMatrix Ghost In The SkyNet Robot's Basilisk after all.
I'm fairly sure I'm not convincing you of anything though, and you will likely get even more entrenched on your points, despite the fact that I'm not dismissing and consider them good warnings to consider. But you yourself admit to being cynical, and I'm asking you to consider seriously: don't you think it's possible you're approaching the matter with too much of a heavy bias against this nascent language technology? Perhaps I'm wrong about this, but I don't think it warrants panic.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Btw there are various forms of resistance to AI corrosion out there. Take for example:
Have faith. Integrity still exists out there in the wild.
Have faith. Integrity still exists out there in the wild.
No, I really don't think my concerns and bias are unwarranted. The thing is we're rushing ahead with all this technology without really understanding the implications to both the individual in terms of neurology and psychology, and the wider sociological implications. I mean forget the propaganda and malicious actors misusing technology against us, literally just in terms of pure biology and psychology we are not taking the potential implications seriously enough.
This is a poor analogy though, because you're talking about simple arithmetic calculations in comparison to the functionality of a LLM that can be used to bypass much more complicated and protracted thinking processes. A child using a calculator is incomparable to using GPT to write out an entire essay on a book the class is reading.
And how are people going to push the pendulum the other way when they can barely distinguish between their arsehole and their elbow, short of mass violence and revolution? I mean look where we are now, how polarized and high tension society has become, due to the breakdown in discourse caused by shit like political correctness. We can't even use language properly any more, and whenever you call that point out people inevitably try to detract and call you a racist, nazi, etc, to keep the argument inside this low-IQ Overton window.
What's going to happen when intellectual ability declines further. People will be more susceptible to the influence of state propaganda, less discerning, and more liable to project their frustrations outwards and crucify people like me who try to point out the contradictions in it all because it will rub them the wrong way (they know they've been duped, but not who by, and will lash out). There is nothing to say that our mass psychology could not descend back towards what we had a few centuries ago.. and how are we supposed to dig ourselves out of that scenario, given that now the state has such a stranglehold on our lives with all this technology?
I'm not afraid, I don't really care if I don't make it. I don't have children so I don't care that much, but I still care for the young of others and the human race at large. Not all change is good, progress is not linear and upward by default either.
Society may be fine indeed, but that doesn't mean it isn't going to become progressively more inhuman.
kiely
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2022
- Messages
- 13,776
omg there aren't enough emoji's for that one. 
Love That. ttyl again some time soon.
Love That. ttyl again some time soon.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Uh huh. Are you always this fun? Like at parties and such?
(RIP Mitch Hedberg)
Ok well, whenever you're done fretting the AI apocalypse, let us know. We'll still be here. The choice of anxiety is yours, as always. I'm going outside now. It's a nice early evening in NYC…
Make it? Make it where? What are you talking about? No one survives life, obviously. There is no "making it"; that's just all in your head. Trying to hit a moving target.
Well now so which one is it? Because you sound scared to me, and that's okay to be scared, just don't get carried away is my unsolicited $0.02. Panic is not helpful.
I don't think virtually anything is "linear and upward by default". Hence the expression about what goes up. Some say life is cyclical, but I tend to think of it as a spiral driving forward. There's a song by the band Tool called Lateralus that is about this very subject, about how reaching out for greatness is an ongoing stretch of our potential and capabilities and it's what drives so many of us. Every day you have a choice as to whether to fixate on the negative aspects or recognize the positive side of things while remaining solution-oriented about the problems we face, potential or realized.
TI-82s are pretty goddamn sophisticated, all things considered, and we used them in high school AP Calculus BC. It's slightly more complicated than arithmetic. Might not mean much, but to this day I can still calculate the area under a curve, rotate it about the y-axis, subtract an extrusion and give you the volume. The graphing calculator did not make me intellectually lazy anymore than AI is ruining today's youth's minds. Yes, they're growing up in a different world, but it's as our world was different from that of our own parents, and their's different from their parents, repeat ad infinitum. If I had a nickel for every time someone has said to me "this generation these days is so totally fucked"… well, I'd have an unusual way of making money
(RIP Mitch Hedberg)The concept still applies and it applied prior to this with things like Cliff Notes… This is just a new format for old tricks.
Ok well, whenever you're done fretting the AI apocalypse, let us know. We'll still be here. The choice of anxiety is yours, as always. I'm going outside now. It's a nice early evening in NYC…
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Heh, I'd rather be a cynic in your book (a realist in my book) and not be as entertaining, than be a regurgitator of fluffy nonsense just to titillate people I don't know. The types of people I like talking to, on the intellectual level, can handle this sort of discussion anyway.
Also, last time I checked.. using a calculator was not known to cause suicidal impulses and induce psychotic states in people. Both of which have already happened with GPT; a young boy killed himself after it basically confirmed his impulse, and right now on reddit there's a thread all about GPT induced psychosis.. it's an interesting read.
I'd wager a nickel that we'll see before too long some kind of social mental contagion occurring through GPT, given both the user and the model can become recursive in their input/output. I don't think you really appreciate how fragile and susceptible human psychology is to influences; it's a common theme these days, we've become blind to that notion because in order to function in our society you essentially have to tune out the 101 different ways you are being manipulated on a daily basis.