Immigration discussion

[Quasimoto]

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This is a strange thing.

"He was illegally deported, he has never been charged with a crime."

Next paragraph: "He illegally immigrated to the US in 2011"

So which is it? He illegally entered and was illegally deported... I guess it cancels itself out? Illegal immigration is a crime itself, the lib news keeps forgetting that.

I digress... I doubt he was a bad guy, but I don't understand why we give asylum to every random ass dude who illegally enters our country... simply because his country is dangerous, we make him a US citizen with all given rights instead of sending him back? On that pretense, we could give citizenship like 6 billion people... where do we draw the line?

Life is not fair. The US is not the world police, or the world orphanage... and is definitely not some world sanctuary from gang violence! Our country is just as violent and gangridden as most other countries...

The US takes in exponentially more immigrants than any other country in the world-- and that's just accounting for the legal ones!!! This number is probably 3x higher than in the graph below.

WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?

 

[Robi]

Hang em ALL,starting with.....oh I don't even need to say

 

[nuttynutskin]

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This is a strange thing.

"He was illegally deported, he has never been charged with a crime."

Next paragraph: "He illegally immigrated to the US in 2011"

So which is it? He illegally entered and was illegally deported... I guess it cancels itself out? Illegal immigration is a crime itself, the lib news keeps forgetting that.

I digress... I doubt he was a bad guy, but I don't understand why we give asylum to every random ass dude who illegally enters our country... simply because his country is dangerous, we make him a US citizen with all given rights instead of sending him back? On that pretense, we could give citizenship like 6 billion people... where do we draw the line?

Life is not fair. The US is not the world police, or the world orphanage... and is definitely not some world sanctuary from gang violence! Our country is just as violent and gangridden as most other countries...

The US takes in exponentially more immigrants than any other country in the world-- and that's just accounting for the legal ones!!! This number is probably 3x higher than in the graph below.

WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?

He was granted withholding removal status because it was likely he'd face harm since the reason he came in the first place was to escape gang violence, then the Trump administration made up a bunch of lies about him and got him deported to one of the worst prisons in the world. If you don't see anything wrong with that you're nuts.

 

[sHR00m]

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This is a strange thing.

"He was illegally deported, he has never been charged with a crime."

Next paragraph: "He illegally immigrated to the US in 2011"

So which is it? He illegally entered and was illegally deported... I guess it cancels itself out? Illegal immigration is a crime itself, the lib news keeps forgetting that.

I digress... I doubt he was a bad guy, but I don't understand why we give asylum to every random ass dude who illegally enters our country... simply because his country is dangerous, we make him a US citizen with all given rights instead of sending him back? On that pretense, we could give citizenship like 6 billion people... where do we draw the line?

Life is not fair. The US is not the world police, or the world orphanage... and is definitely not some world sanctuary from gang violence! Our country is just as violent and gangridden as most other countries...

The US takes in exponentially more immigrants than any other country in the world-- and that's just accounting for the legal ones!!! This number is probably 3x higher than in the graph below.

WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?

At the 1967 protocol of the 1951 refugee convention which the USA ratified and which clearly states: "no one shall expel or return (“refouler”) a refugee against his or her will, in any manner whatsoever, to a territory where he or she fears threats to life or freedom." But don't worry. Trump will ignore this treaty for sure while he is building concentration camps in El Salvador. For refugees, for permanent residents and for american citizens.

Edit:

BTW a high rate of legal immigration is beneficial. Your demographics are bad. You are increasingly lacking the workforce to continue running the country, especially if you want to bring the production back. As long as they are qualified and speak English, who cares where they came from? But go ahead, don't take in qualified workers. Germany would be happy to have such a stream of qualified personnel.

 

[Quasimoto]

He was granted withholding removal status because it was likely he'd face harm since the reason he came in the first place was to escape gang violence, then the Trump administration made up a bunch of lies about him and got him deported to one of the worst prisons in the world. If you don't see anything wrong with that you're nuts.

Of course I see wrong in what Trump is doing, I hate it. I don't think that guy deserves to be sent to the El Sal Gulag.... but I also don't think he necessarily has the right to live in this country.

I just don't like how the media is portraying him as some total innocent. He came here illegally, and never should have.

Tell me, why does he deserve my pity? He was never supposed to be here. I do not see him as a fellow American... pero tengo muchos amigos Mexicanos y hablo un poco espanol... no tengo un problemo con su cultura.

 

[Quasimoto]

BTW a high rate of legal immigration is beneficial. Your demographics are bad. You are increasingly lacking the workforce to continue running the country, especially if you want to bring the production back. As long as they are qualified and speak English, who cares where they came from? But go ahead, don't take in qualified workers. Germany would be happy to have such a stream of qualified personnel.

You are assuming a whole lot about me and are incorrect.

Your presumption that immigrants are needed for continued growth is also wrong and based upon corporatocratic disinformation. Immigrants are needed for corporations to continue growing their profit margins. Not the economy for average citizens. Beneficial to corporations who love paying minimum wage.... but not required for a healthy economy. The US became a world superpower well before we opened our borders to this level of immigration.

At the 1967 protocol of the 1951 refugee convention which the USA ratified and which clearly states: "no one shall expel or return (“refouler”) a refugee against his or her will, in any manner whatsoever, to a territory where he or she fears threats to life or freedom."

Maybe open your mind to the idea that this proclamation is outdated. Are you aware of the difference in immigration numbers between the 50s/60s and today in the 2020s?

The laws they passed in 1960 have little relevance to today.

 

[Quasimoto]

Let's do a thought experiment.

Imagine if I, a US citizen, went to China by illegally smuggling myself across their border and settled down illegally. The Chinese government gives me asylum, allows me to work. Then they elect a new communist leader who changes their laws enforces their laws and ends up deporting me to some North Korean gulag.

Would you feel bad about my situation? Would you say it was unjust? What would the US media say about me?

I feel like the left's opinion about this man are mostly based on emotions... emotions in an and unfair world. I vote democrat, btw...

I hate watching a tiger eat a baby animal... but I also recognize that its just the natural way. Life isn't fair. The US is not some sanctuary for every poor person or every unlucky person who is born in a broken country. We have no obligation to fix the world, even after we did so much evil, occupation, and international manipulation.

What Trump did to this man was unjust, and SCOTUS agrees, but that doesn't invalidate the discussion. It doesn't erase the fact that the man broke our laws by coming here.

 

[sHR00m]

Sure mate. I'm sure Trump has it all figured out. I have debated about the problems of aging demographics at length on here before. I really don't feel like repeating myself.

 

[sHR00m]

Let's do a thought experiment.

Imagine if I, a US citizen, went to China by illegally smuggling myself across their border and settled down illegally. The Chinese government gives me asylum, allows me to work. Then they elect a new communist leader who changes their laws enforces their laws and ends up deporting me to some North Korean gulag.

Would you feel bad about my situation? Would you say it was unjust? What would the US media say about me?

I feel like the left's opinion about this man are mostly based on emotions... emotions in an and unfair world. I vote democrat, btw...

I hate watching a tiger eat a baby animal... but I also recognize that its just the natural way. Life isn't fair. The US is not some sanctuary for every poor person or every unlucky person who is born in a broken country. We have no obligation to fix the world, even after we did so much evil, occupation, and international manipulation.

What Trump did to this man was unjust, and SCOTUS agrees, but that doesn't invalidate the discussion. It doesn't erase the fact that the man broke our laws by coming here.

You are honestly comparing the USA to a dictatorship like China? Mind blown.

 

[Quasimoto]

No, Trump is a lunatic and I'm one of the most vocal on this forum against him.

I presented a unique challenge. I don't think you're repeating yourself here.

Aging demographics are not crippling this economy. That's what the corporations who own this country want you to think my friend.

 

[Quasimoto]

You are honestly comparing the USA to a dictatorship like China? Mind blown.

Imagine China was a democracy, the thought experiment remains valid. You're diverting.

Or just imagine I said Canada. It doesn't matter. The country is irrelevant to my point.

 

[sHR00m]

Nah man, I'm good. I suggest reading up on what Hitler did from 1933-1938. You will find striking parallels to what Trump is doing right now.

 

[Quasimoto]

Nah man, I'm good. I suggest reading up on what Hitler did from 1933-1938. You will find striking parallels to what Trump is doing right now.

I'm a huge WWII nerd and I'd bet my balls I know more about WWII history than you do.

Yes, there are striking similarities, and I think Trump wishes he were Hitler. He's a wannabe fascist, especially his cronies. But that's beside the point I am making... has almost nothing to do with the discussion in the end.

 

[sHR00m]

If you say so. I didn't catch that earlier comment where you said you are opposed to Trump. That was not exactly obvious considering your remarks about his immigration policies.

 

[sHR00m]

I'm a huge WWII nerd and I'd bet my balls I know more about WWII history than you do.

Yes, there are striking similarities, and I think Trump wishes he were Hitler. He's a wannabe fascist, especially his cronies. But that's beside the point I am making... has almost nothing to do with the discussion in the end.

Out of curiosity, what ended WW2?

 

[Quasimoto]

Out of curiosity, what ended WW2?

Literally? Mass casualties on a scale never seen before. Death.

It would have ended with or without nuclear weapons, there would only have been more bodies.

If you say so. I didn't catch that earlier comment where you said you are opposed to Trump. That was not exactly obvious considering your remarks about his immigration policies.

Yeah and that really annoys me. Not from you or this discussion, but in general with American politics. It's so divisive. No room for moderate takes.... which was faceted on purpose by the media.

I dislike the right much more than I do the left, but in the end I hate stupidity and ignorance more than any political take.

 

[sHR00m]

Literally? Mass casualties on a scale never seen before. Death.

It would have ended with or without nuclear weapons, there would only have been more bodies.


Yeah and that really annoys me. Not from you or this discussion, but in general with American politics. It's so divisive. No room for moderate takes.... which was faceted on purpose by the media.

Not really a lot more bodies tbh. It was arguably the declaration of war of the Soviet Union on Japan. Japan was already willing to surrender but they could not accept that the allies would dethrone the emperor. The USA would not accept direct negotiations so Japan contacted the SU as a mediator. Instead of acting as such the Soviet Union stalled and eventually declared war. The first bomb did not nearly interest them as much - they were used to entire cities being flattened over night. one bomb or 1000 didn't make much difference to them. The declaration of war on the other hand meant that every hope of a dignified surrender was lost, so they surrendered shortly after. The second bomb was merely the tip of the ice berg.

Edit: So it was arguably the Soviet Union that ended WW2. But I guess that won't fly with many Americans.
And here is the source.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Of course I see wrong in what Trump is doing, I hate it. I don't think that guy deserves to be sent to the El Sal Gulag.... but I also don't think he necessarily has the right to live in this country.

I just don't like how the media is portraying him as some total innocent. He came here illegally, and never should have.

Tell me, why does he deserve my pity? He was never supposed to be here. I do not see him as a fellow American... pero tengo muchos amigos Mexicanos y hablo un poco espanol... no tengo un problemo con su cultura.

Lol wut? It doesn't matter what you think of him, it matters what you think about due process, human rights and the constitution. I'm all for tighter immigration and I didn't agree at all with Biden's open border policy, but kidnapping people and deporting them to a dangerous prison in another country without even so much as a trial ain't the answer. I really fail to see what your argument is you think you're making. Either you're ok with potentially innocent people being locked up and thrown away in CECOT or you're not.

 

[sHR00m]

BTW, Abrego Garcia's lawyers said he was not convicted of a crime, which appears to be true. They never said crossing the border wasn't illegal.

Edit:

This guy lived there since 14 years. He worked hard in construction. He married and has 3 children. This guy was a productive member of society. I really fail to see what there is to gain to deport people like him. To me that is simply a racist attitude. Same goes for being hostile to legal immigration. Demographics are not up for debate. They can be healthy and they can be terminal. When nobody gets any children anymore you wont have future workers. Every family needs roughly 2 children to sustain the population. If that isn't the case your demographics will decline over the decades. Its simple mathematics. At some point the majority of people is so old that they belong in nursing homes but at that point nobody will be left to staff them.

 

[Quasimoto]

I really fail to see what your argument is you think you're making.

Read what I wrote, then.

Lol wut? It doesn't matter what you think of him, it matters what you think about due process, human rights and the constitution. I'm all for tighter immigration and I didn't agree at all with Biden's open border policy, but kidnapping people and deporting them to a dangerous prison in another country without even so much as a trial ain't the answer.

No, Trump is a lunatic and I'm one of the most vocal on this forum against him.

What Trump did to this man was unjust, and SCOTUS agrees, but that doesn't invalidate the discussion. It doesn't erase the fact that the man broke our laws by coming here.

Of course I see wrong in what Trump is doing, I hate it. I don't think that guy deserves to be sent to the El Sal Gulag.... but I also don't think he necessarily has the right to live in this country.

Did you even read bro?

Or did you just immediately come to the conclusion I was a Trump fanboy idiot and then disregard what I was saying? I made no real argument other than how my initial posts critiques the media's portrayal on the issue, and the left's oblivious opinion on immigration.