US Politics the 2025 trump presidency thread

[fairnymph]

Why?

It’s destructive to both the nation that is immigrated into and the nation that is emigrated from. It destroys true diversity. Without boundaries, i.e. segregation, you can’t have differences. The Internet is bad enough in many ways but moving people who are radically different around is far worse.

 

[tryptakid]

It’s destructive to both the nation that is immigrated into and the nation that is emigrated from. It destroys true diversity. Without boundaries, i.e. segregation, you can’t have differences. The Internet is bad enough in many ways but moving people who are radically different around is far worse.

I don't disagree that truly open immigration is bad, but I do think that nations benefit from a diverse flow of ethnic and cultural backgrounds - When values are aligned *which is key* - I think the failure of liberal immigration has been either

A) too low a barrier for entry - no assimilation or vetting of whether someone is a good match for the chosen place of immigration

B) too difficult a means of entry mixed with a highly desirable end point for reasons such as safety, security, or financial benefits (the current situation plaguing the US and UK) - Legitimate immigration is so difficult that but there are many ways to avoid doing it legitimately but without any vetting by the nation to ensure value alignment.

Monoculturalism is good but it can lead to stagnation and hostility, and struggles to allow for evolution in culture/or any real cultural export. Maybe that's not a problem, but I'm a believer that cultural exportation is a way to share things outside of immigration, creating new synergies. House and Techno are examples of non-immigration cultural exportation and synergy with european and american synergies that create beautiful music, and subcultures that transcend national borders.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I think its important to remember that life, including culture and society, is highly dynamic. That's actually one of the advantages of life, it increases resiliency.

Cultural assimilation is really a two way street, learning happens on both sides and it makes society better by allowing the dynamics to take place more smoothly rather than one side forcing another to be a certain way.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

There is good in his bad, and unfortunately, bad in his good.

I think he is just bad. They ain't particularly educated in science stuff, nor commendable family man. He is just narcissist and sociopath and knows how to exploit people and deal with competition. That is why he is so "successful". Same achievements could have been made by humane leading.

 

[fairnymph]

I don't disagree that truly open immigration is bad, but I do think that nations benefit from a diverse flow of ethnic and cultural backgrounds - When values are aligned *which is key* - I think the failure of liberal immigration has been either

A) too low a barrier for entry - no assimilation or vetting of whether someone is a good match for the chosen place of immigration

B) too difficult a means of entry mixed with a highly desirable end point for reasons such as safety, security, or financial benefits (the current situation plaguing the US and UK) - Legitimate immigration is so difficult that but there are many ways to avoid doing it legitimately but without any vetting by the nation to ensure value alignment.

Monoculturalism is good but it can lead to stagnation and hostility, and struggles to allow for evolution in culture/or any real cultural export. Maybe that's not a problem, but I'm a believer that cultural exportation is a way to share things outside of immigration, creating new synergies. House and Techno are examples of non-immigration cultural exportation and synergy with european and american synergies that create beautiful music, and subcultures that transcend national borders.

Sounds like we mostly agree, except that I think that everything is downstream of genetics, including values. Different racial groups and even different ethnic groups within them have their own individual bio spirits and these bio spirits emanate and impress on their surroundings, creating what we call culture and civilisation. If you allow different pockets of these groups to flourish on their own while engaging in healthy communication and trade with other distinct groups that’s when you get the maximum benefit for all. So I’m big on monoculture within many different nations - and I think nations should be quite small - and big on multiculturalism as a result of that variety via segregation.

I would argue that multiculturalism within a nation is what leads to hostility, not homogeneity. And of course any nation that is too insular can potentially suffer from stagnation. I don’t think that is ever likely to be a problem for my people, namely white people of ethnic European descent, because we have such a fascination for other cultures. I can’t comment on other peoples not being sufficiently educated on them.

Also, I love electronic music, but there’s not a huge difference between Europeans and those who descended from Europeans in the US. Just saying’. Especially if you look at the specific ethnic backgrounds of EDM overall and even specific sub genres.

 

[fairnymph]

I think its important to remember that life, including culture and society, is highly dynamic. That's actually one of the advantages of life, it increases resiliency.

Cultural assimilation is really a two way street, learning happens on both sides and it makes society better by allowing the dynamics to take place more smoothly rather than one side forcing another to be a certain way.

I think it’s important to remember that dynamism requires order not just pure energy to truly manifest in its full glory. Any energy, if not used appropriately, if it has no direction, is at best wasted and at worst highly destructive.

I’m more order oriented than I am chaos, but it’s not a huge gap. There’s definitely a push-pull there that is necessary, like with any duality.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I think it’s important to remember that dynamism requires order not just pure energy to truly manifest in its full glory. Any energy, if not used appropriately, if it has no direction, is at best wasted and at worst highly destructive.

I’m more order oriented than I am chaos, but it’s not a huge gap. There’s definitely a push-pull there that is necessary, like with any duality.

Have you read about chaos theory?

 

[fairnymph]

Have you read about chaos theory?

Yes! It’s one of my favourite books in fact.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I also loved that book, its a really good story that honestly everyone should read at some point. Not super in depth scientifically but very good story telling. A big takeaway for me was that a chaotic dynamic system is actually ordered in itself

 

[Quasimoto]

What is Trump doing?

like.... why is he starting trade wars and obsessed with tariffs all of a sudden?

He is using tarrffs to now piss off all of our major allies and economic trade partners around the world........ for what purpose???

That's what is bugging me. If these trade wars happen, general goods and groceries will triple or quadrouble in price for a few years and he will be considered te worst president ever.

That's what is bugging me... what is his endgame???

Him doing ICE raids, deportations, and other bullshit executive orders are sad, but ultimately they are a sort of "look this way" towards the media while Trump admin does something else.....

 

[4DQSAR]

I expect Donald Trump has failed to study history. If the US introduces tarriffs, other nations simply introduce their own tarrifs on goods the US exports. As a result international trade drops, consumer prices go up and it's the people rather than the elite who suffer.

China has already setup export controls on rare earth metals. They saw Donald Trump coming and planned ahead to ensure that they could retaliate quickly. Think what would happen if China simply stopped the supply of rare earth metals. Expect every item of electronic goods to hugely rise in price and potentially whole sectors of the US economy simply stopping because they rely on rare earths.

I did mention this earlier after having studied a history of the US experiments with tarriffs. It may take some time to filter through because US manufacturers will certainly have stockpiled vital inputs that are imported, but I would keep an eye on the prices of electronic goods. It seems a likely cause of inflation within the US as demand outstrips supply.

I also tacitly pointed out that Donald Trump does not lie on any left<-->right as we are used to considering politics and indeed even nationhood. Like ancient Rome, Donald Trump see the US population in terms of 'the elite' and 'the people'. The elite essentially control everything but imperium is held by a single person. In ancient Rome that was the emperor.

The manner in which he is issuing executive orders should concern anyone who believes the US should remain a democracy. Because the people really don't have much power and the elite are quite obviously being allowed to profit so they won't openly disagree with his overt position on any issue.

It really is worth reading a history of tarriffs and on how ancient Rome operated because I don't see many differences. If a president is happy to bypass the two house system, a system designed to prevent all the power being concentrated into the hands of a single person, they are behaving just as the Ceasers.

 

[tryptakid]

I expect Donald Trump has failed to study history. If the US introduces tarriffs, other nations simply introduce their own tarrifs on goods the US exports. As a result international trade drops, consumer prices go up and it's the people rather than the elite who suffer.

China has already setup export controls on rare earth metals. They saw Donald Trump coming and planned ahead to ensure that they could retaliate quickly. Think what would happen if China simply stopped the supply of rare earth metals. Expect every item of electronic goods to hugely rise in price and potentially whole sectors of the US economy simply stopping because they rely on rare earths.

I did mention this earlier after having studied a history of the US experiments with tarriffs. It may take some time to filter through because US manufacturers will certainly have stockpiled vital inputs that are imported, but I would keep an eye on the prices of electronic goods. It seems a likely cause of inflation within the US as demand outstrips supply.

I also tacitly pointed out that Donald Trump does not lie on any left<-->right as we are used to considering politics and indeed even nationhood. Like ancient Rome, Donald Trump see the US population in terms of 'the elite' and 'the people'. The elite essentially control everything but imperium is held by a single person. In ancient Rome that was the emperor.

The manner in which he is issuing executive orders should concern anyone who believes the US should remain a democracy. Because the people really don't have much power and the elite are quite obviously being allowed to profit so they won't openly disagree with his overt position on any issue.

It really is worth reading a history of tarriffs and on how ancient Rome operated because I don't see many differences. If a president is happy to bypass the two house system, a system designed to prevent all the power being concentrated into the hands of a single person, they are behaving just as the Ceasers.

My working theory is he's trying to backdoor into austerity without calling it that.

 

[4DQSAR]

My working theory is he's trying to backdoor into austerity without calling it that.

I'm uncertain if Donald Trump is consciously moving the US into austericy but so far MANY of his executive orders will have that result.

The UK has been in austericy for 25 years now and if there is one thing I have learnt, it's that if something lasts for long enough. it becomes 'the new normal'. The people adapt to the idea that simply keeping a roof over their heads, paying utilitty bills and the bare minimum in the way of food, clothing and so on is all that they will achieve and that they should be greatful for that.

Because a people who have to spend their entire time simply surviving are unlikely to question authority.

As I have said, study the history of US tarriffs. Study the social structure of ancient Rome - because that is quite clearly the model Donald Trump envisages. A small elite who freed from oversight are then free to exploit the people.

I'm not an expert on the US system of government but it was my understanding that the role of the two houses are the ones to enact and repeal laws, the role of the president is to oversee the enation of those laws. So if the US system of government is so flawed that a president can simply enact exacutive orders, how does that differ from ancient Rome? If a single person holds imperator, it's a dictatorship by any other name. People may especially wish to study the period 100BC to 50AD. Because for quite a while the senate still theoretically held sway but the emperor was in a position to aid their money-making or equally to take away their wealth or in some cases simply have them charged for some invented crime. Carrot and stick.

I suppose modern Russia is the most similar example I can think of. It's really worth reading how Putin got into power and how he turned a democratic nation into a kleptocracy where he demonstrated imperator in the most demonstrable manner - he had people murdered.

Nation states do not move from democracy to dictatorship instantly. It's a generational thing where, as mentioned above, when people grow up into such a system, to them it is normal.

 

[Quasimoto]

I expect Donald Trump has failed to study history.

You can't fail something if you never took it in the first place.

 

[4DQSAR]

Then doomed to repeat it.

As a friend noted, the minimum wage in China varies depening on region but it's in the order of $200-$360/month. So it's not going to stop China exporting goods, it's simply going to result in the US consumer paying more. Because the cost of living in the US is so much higher, it's not going to make US made products any cheaper.

In fact, for low value items, China is actually off-shoring production so we are seeing China investing in nations like Vietnam where wages are even lower. It's not going to bring jobs back to the US.

Now it IS the case that tarrifs could theoretically reduce income tax in the US but I suggest that the ones to benefit will be the elite. Because the elite are in a position to disagree with Donald Trump in a manner that is very public. But if the elite GAIN from Donald Trump's policies, they aren't likely to overtly disagree, are they?

I'm not an economist but I'm not the only one pointing these things out.

My question is this. IF the income from tarriffs disproportionaly profit the elite, exactly what are the US public going to do about it? When it happens, it's already too late. Since the majority of US citizens take their news from a limited number of sources, most of the media is owned by the elite. So they need to be careful to read news outlets that may disagree with their prejudices and especially, make an effort to read news outlets based outside the US. Because it's quite incredible how some stories are buried.



Whatever your views on the man, the above film based on the book by Noam Chomsky gives examples of how the media will drive a narrative if it is to their advantage.

BTW a LOT of medicines used worldwide are often produced in just one or two factories. A lot of those factories are outside the US. So expect price rises on those items.

 

[fairnymph]

What is Trump doing?

like.... why is he starting trade wars and obsessed with tariffs all of a sudden?

He is using tarrffs to now piss off all of our major allies and economic trade partners around the world........ for what purpose???

That's what is bugging me. If these trade wars happen, general goods and groceries will triple or quadrouble in price for a few years and he will be considered te worst president ever.

That's what is bugging me... what is his endgame???

Him doing ICE raids, deportations, and other bullshit executive orders are sad, but ultimately they are a sort of "look this way" towards the media while Trump admin does something else.....

From what I’ve heard from those who understand these things better than I, it’s about negotiating and he’s trying to start from a position of strength. Idk if that is actually true, but it makes some sense to me. It does sound like a businessman tactic, but then again is it really that successful of a businessman? I’m kind of doubtful.

ICE raids and deportation he actually hasn’t been doing very much of that, alas. I wish he were. But Biden was deporting more. I think at least fewer are coming in though. But who knows…these days, there are very few sources I trust for this kind of information.

 

[fairnymph]

My working theory is he's trying to backdoor into austerity without calling it that.

For what purpose, do you think?

 

[fairnymph]

I'm uncertain if Donald Trump is consciously moving the US into austericy but so far MANY of his executive orders will have that result.

The UK has been in austericy for 25 years now and if there is one thing I have learnt, it's that if something lasts for long enough. it becomes 'the new normal'. The people adapt to the idea that simply keeping a roof over their heads, paying utilitty bills and the bare minimum in the way of food, clothing and so on is all that they will achieve and that they should be greatful for that.

Because a people who have to spend their entire time simply surviving are unlikely to question authority.

As I have said, study the history of US tarriffs. Study the social structure of ancient Rome - because that is quite clearly the model Donald Trump envisages. A small elite who freed from oversight are then free to exploit the people.

I'm not an expert on the US system of government but it was my understanding that the role of the two houses are the ones to enact and repeal laws, the role of the president is to oversee the enation of those laws. So if the US system of government is so flawed that a president can simply enact exacutive orders, how does that differ from ancient Rome? If a single person holds imperator, it's a dictatorship by any other name. People may especially wish to study the period 100BC to 50AD. Because for quite a while the senate still theoretically held sway but the emperor was in a position to aid their money-making or equally to take away their wealth or in some cases simply have them charged for some invented crime. Carrot and stick.

I suppose modern Russia is the most similar example I can think of. It's really worth reading how Putin got into power and how he turned a democratic nation into a kleptocracy where he demonstrated imperator in the most demonstrable manner - he had people murdered.

Nation states do not move from democracy to dictatorship instantly. It's a generational thing where, as mentioned above, when people grow up into such a system, to them it is normal.

Other than tariffs, what has Trump done that you think will result in austerity? I agree with you that people can adapt to almost anything, especially if it’s gradual and if everyone virtually else they know has to suffer through it too.

 

[tryptakid]

For what purpose, do you think?

I think that Elon and the tech elite need to cut public expenses, cut taxes to the wealthy, and channel that money into tech/space development - it'll make people really upset unless he can somehow blame it on something (tariffs not working out because CHYNAH) but really it's that he wants to exert more economic control which generally reads as big government which would be a tough sell as a republican. He's playing games in order to get money and latitude to tech so that A) Elon can go to Mars B) AI can replace a lot of labor costs and C) secure some type of power bloc comprised of those he chooses to anoint. It's very machiavellian.

 

[4DQSAR]

Other than tariffs, what has Trump done that you think will result in austerity? I agree with you that people can adapt to almost anything, especially if it’s gradual and if everyone virtually else they know has to suffer through it too.

I did mention this a few days ago but one major export that is important to the US economy is the export of arms. Now, the important thing (as nations who bought Russian weapons have learnt to their cost) is that buyers need to be certain that spares and support will always be available at an agreed price. For big ticket-price items, that means a relationship measured in decades. But Donald Trump has undermined confidence in US manufacturers. In fact any product or service offered by US-based businesses are now less trusted simply because buying US-made IF spares and support are a requirement. Because if product support would see a US manufacturer lose out financially, Donald Trump is liable to simply move the goal-posts.

I mentioned arms because European suppliers are already seeing an uptick but I think it equally applies to any long-term business deal. Nobody knows what Donald Trump might do and buyers are generally risk averse. That extends to EVERYTHING US made.

He also ssems strangely out of touch. He seems unable to grasp that the needs of the US motorist differ hugely from those of European or Japanese drivers. Getting angry that Europe imports cars isn't anyone being sneaky, it's the simple fact that US car manufacturers MUST design for the home market first and foremost. He also seems unaware that many European marques are actually owned by US companies - so the money still ends up in the US.

It's that constant misrepresentation that makes other nations nervous. Isonationism has a long history in US politics and not once has it ended well.