Tryptamines Psilocybin has no tolerance?

[Ismene2]

Just to clarify what I'm saying - I know eating mushrooms has tolerance, eating dried powder has a tolerance.

But psilocybin chocolate? That's a whole other animal. Let me explain...

Three weeks ago I tried psilocybin choc for the first time. It was so good I immediately booked a week off work and bought a shitload more chocolate. On the first day I tripped balls, the second day I tripped balls. I also tripped ALL DAY each time - when it started wearing off I'd take some more chocolate and go straight back up again. .I've tripped balls every day for 7 days. I even took acid on the third day which I thought would be the end but the next day I took some more chocolate and hey - I was tripping again. The heaviest trip was probably the fifth day in a row when I also noticed an incredible Ecstasy like bodyhigh - like the cleanest, purest E. I remember walking up to my bed, holding my arms out crucifixion style and just falling face first into the duvet and rolling round in it.

It's the eigth day today and I am stopping to let myself recharge. Plus I've eaten almost all the fucking chocolate.

But yeah - very surprised - I always thought psilocybin had a tolerance of a week or two but not when it's in chocolate. Psilocybin is my new fave drug - never felt so at one with a drug since 4 years ago when you could get genuine 4-aco-dmt (the tan/white stuff - the grey stuff they've been selling in the UK for the last 4 years is fake)

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Or maybe it wasnt psilocybin?
Makes no sense that the tolerance buildup would just disappear just because its in chocolate.

Although all tryptamines ime have a serious short term tolerance.
So no idea how you were able to pull that off.

But im happy you we able to have a good time with it.


Personally ive been microdosing 4acodmt for the past 4days.
At 1-2mg per day ive barely noticed any tolerance either.
However the doses is basicly sub threshold so my receptors are probably just laughing at it.

 

[Ismene2]

I think the psilo is being absorbed into the blood quicker subluingally and on the way down to your stomach. By the time you've chewed a tiny peice of chocolate in your mouth there aint much left to be digested - its pretty much in your bloodstream. I imagine its close to injecting psilocybin.

Dose wise I was taking between 4 and 10 dried grams every day.

 

[chris_p]

To add to this thread, I've been in a similar situation with shroom powder, I could take them every day and still trip and while tolerance was present it wasn't enough to prevent me from having a similar or identical experience with the same dose as the day before. I took them daily for like 9 days, near the end there was extreme amounts of mania and euphoria like in your explanation which was unusual for me but shrooms seem to cause it when overused. My doses ranged from 1-2g to 3g near the end, possibly only higher doses in the 5-6g range cause enough tolerance to cancel out effects entirely?

 

[Ismene2]

Dose

To add to this thread, I've been in a similar situation with shroom powder, I could take them every day and still trip and while tolerance was present it wasn't enough to prevent me from having a similar or identical experience with the same dose as the day before. I took them daily for like 9 days, near the end there was extreme amounts of mania and euphoria like in your explanation which was unusual for me but shrooms seem to cause it when overused. My doses ranged from 1-2g to 3g near the end, possibly only higher doses in the 5-6g range cause enough tolerance to cancel out effects entirely?

That's interesting - I never experimented too much with the powder because I just believed IN the "you need to leave a week between trips". I will be getting some powder soon so I will explore it - the powder is a lot cheaper than the chocolate!

 

[Phobos]

I think the psilo is being absorbed into the blood quicker subluingally and on the way down to your stomach. By the time you've chewed a tiny peice of chocolate in your mouth there aint much left to be digested - its pretty much in your bloodstream. I imagine its close to injecting psilocybin.

Dose wise I was taking between 4 and 10 dried grams every day.

The chocolate is playing a role here, 100%.
Chocolate contains theobromine which is a mild MAOI which means it stops your body from metabolising Psilocin into an inactive metabolite.

I made my own chocolate mushrooms and the potency is about 2x IME compared to the same shrooms eaten with no chocolate.

I then bought Theobromine capsules and they do the same enhancement as chocolate, but even more as it's hard to eat a lot of theobromine from chocolate.
Theobromine is the most concentrated in the high % chocolate and it's a bit hard to eat more than 40grams of it for me while in pure powder form you can easily eat the theobromine equivalent of 100g of 90% chocolate.


Do you feel the mushroom powder when you chew the chocolate?

 

[chris_p]

I just believed IN the "you need to leave a week between trips".

I believe psychedelics are self-regulating and 'doing too much or too often' will end up in a lesson to remember and not necessarily any real serious consequences, the one week between is just general advice. Shroom binges changed my perspective on life, I had some real wild experiences and felt rejuvenated for a really long time afterwards, however spacing the trips by a week would've likely gotten me the same benefit either way. Know yourself is what I'd say and don't be scared to experience the moment...

 

[chris_p]

Chocolate contains theobromine which is a mild MAOI which means it stops your body from metabolising Psilocin into an inactive metabolite.

Interesting, might try this. Would syrian rue have the same effect or would it be too potent as an MAOI inhibitor?

 

[Phobos]

Interesting, might try this. Would syrian rue have the same effect or would it be too potent as an MAOI inhibitor?

It would definitely be more potent.
I would titrate the mushrooms dose up from half gram of dried powder.

 

[Ismene2]

Interesting, might try this. Would syrian rue have the same effect or would it be too potent as an MAOI inhibitor?

I used to take mushrooms with moclobemide - it turns the mushroom trip into an oral DMT trip with very little nausea.

 

[paranoid android]

I haven't had the chocolate's yet as i prefer making shroom tea but i might give them a a go. I dont know why eating them in chocolate form wouldn't produce tolerance thats just weird. It still affects the same receptors so it should build tolerance the same way.

 

[Ismene2]

I haven't had the chocolate's yet as i prefer making shroom tea but i might give them a a go. I dont know why eating them in chocolate form wouldn't produce tolerance thats just weird. It still affects the same receptors so it should build tolerance the same way.

Very surprising to me too. Especially that it worked the day after acid.

 

[Ismene2]

I would add, if you eat some D9 the day after chocolates it really recreates the psiloycybin state.

Higher than GIRAFFE PUSSY

 

[Ismene2]

YIIIPPPEEE!!!

 

[Pfafffed]

The chocolate is playing a role here, 100%.
Chocolate contains theobromine which is a mild MAOI which means it stops your body from metabolising Psilocin into an inactive metabolite.

I made my own chocolate mushrooms and the potency is about 2x IME compared to the same shrooms eaten with no chocolate.

I then bought Theobromine capsules and they do the same enhancement as chocolate, but even more as it's hard to eat a lot of theobromine from chocolate.
Theobromine is the most concentrated in the high % chocolate and it's a bit hard to eat more than 40grams of it for me while in pure powder form you can easily eat the theobromine equivalent of 100g of 90% chocolate.


Do you feel the mushroom powder when you chew the chocolate?

I don't want to diminish your experience - I can't speak to that. But MAO inhibition as the mechanism responsible for theobromine subjectively increasing the potency of your psilocybin-containing mushrooms seems quite unlikely. If you have citations, please send them my way, but I'm not seeing much to back that up. The inhibition that we're talking about looks pretty insignificant from what I can find.

That said, even if that was the case, I think that it's important to discriminate between potency and tolerance. Potency as described here would be the result of higher levels of circulating 4-PO-DMT due to using one drug to slow its elimination. The same end result can be achieved by just taking a higher dose. Tolerance here is how the subjective intensity of the same dose changes day over day, possibly here as a result of receptor desensitization.

It's my understanding that higher levels of circulating drug over longer periods of time typically leads to more pronounced tolerance, not less.

 

[Pfafffed]

Interesting, might try this. Would syrian rue have the same effect or would it be too potent as an MAOI inhibitor?

Most reports suggest that syrian rue increases the potency of psilocybin and the duration of the trip. Many also suggest that it changes the feel or vibe of the trip. Descriptions like "shroomahuasca" or "oral DMT" are pretty common.

 

[arrall]

The chocolate is playing a role here, 100%.
Chocolate contains theobromine which is a mild MAOI which means it stops your body from metabolising Psilocin into an inactive metabolite

I don’t think the theobromide content in milk chocolate would be enough to do this.

 

[Ismene2]

Nah I cant see chocolate being strong enough - you need about 300mg of moclobemide

 

[Phobos]

I don’t think the theobromide content in milk chocolate would be enough to do this.

The effect is not as powerful as it is with dark chocolate or pure theobromine but a 10:1 milk chocolate to shrooms powder ratio is a very significant boost in potency and duration.

 

[Phobos]

I don't want to diminish your experience - I can't speak to that. But MAO inhibition as the mechanism responsible for theobromine subjectively increasing the potency of your psilocybin-containing mushrooms seems quite unlikely. If you have citations, please send them my way, but I'm not seeing much to back that up. The inhibition that we're talking about looks pretty insignificant from what I can find.

That said, even if that was the case, I think that it's important to discriminate between potency and tolerance. Potency as described here would be the result of higher levels of circulating 4-PO-DMT due to using one drug to slow its elimination. The same end result can be achieved by just taking a higher dose. Tolerance here is how the subjective intensity of the same dose changes day over day, possibly here as a result of receptor desensitization.

It's my understanding that higher levels of circulating drug over longer periods of time typically leads to more pronounced tolerance, not less.

My experience is purely personal, but has been verified multiple times.
I can be relatively scientific in my methods I grow my own shrooms, I follow the same drying procedure so I'm experimenting from the same batch of shrooms that has at the same level of moisture content.

Taking chocolate or theobromine massively changes the intensity of the trip it's not even subtle, it's more than 2x in the sense that by taking enough theobromine (using the pure powder) the intensity is similar to a double dose but also the duration is about 50% longer.
There is no difference in effects between taking chocolate or theobromine, it's just possible to take more theobromine by using pure powder obviously.

Theobromine itself is a nice but very weak stimulant for me, so I doubt it's a drug stack effect that I'm experiencing.

I had read the article you linked, they report achieving a 54% inhibition by using Theobromine, do you think that is a mild result?

My speculation is that with Psilocybin and Psilocin a significant amount of the drug is metabolised in the stomach before ever being active and that is reinforced by my experiments with oral and intranasal 4 Aco DMT showing a massive difference in potency in favour of intranasal.
So it makes sense to me that eating 800mg of Theobromine (the amount you'd get from about 80grams of 100% chocolate) you get to absorb a much higher amount of the psilocybin and psilocin.

In regards to tolerance, is it not possible that much of the tolerance is not caused by receptor desensitisation, but rather by an increase in MAOI enzymes?