Hey everybody. I have a question i cannot figure out. So I’ve been on Lunesta (eszopiclone) for a few months but am now 5 days off of it. What my doctor has me doing is using gabapentin and seroquel (quetiapine) to sleep while lowering my dose of Ezsopiclone. I’m now 5 days off lunesta which I’m happy about but I’m feeling very “flat” and “dull” during the days now. Very SSRI like. Do we think that is due to the Gabapentin or Seroquel? I take 600mg gabapentin and 50-100mg seroquel at night along with full spectrum live resin THC. I also use kratom on the weekend (powder) and typically 3g of a good green Maeng or Malay will give me great amounts of energy and euphoria but since i have been consistent with the seroquel and gabapentin for 2 weeks now I’m barley noticing any effects from 3 to even 6gs of kratom. Would it also be dulling the kratom effects? Any and all ideas are welcomed. Happy Sunday BL fam.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Kratom Seroquel or Gabapentin dulling Kratom effects?
- Thread starter pnillyg
- Start date
I think it is the seroquel. Gabapentinoids are commonly used for boosting various drugs, and many have good success with that practice. Gabapentin might also dull some effects or change the high, but having used quetiapine occasionally, I am pretty much convinced it is the main culprit here. It makes me feel like shit.
I suggest taking quetiapine until withdrawals are over, if you can not sleep without that, but I don't exactly recommend using it for long time, even if it was exceptionally well tolerated neuroleptic. It is not particularly healthy medicine. I wish you can find a way to sleep with some less HC medicine, or, if that is possible, without medicines.
Gabapentin can also cause dependence and some issues over time, but 600 mg gabapentin is not really high dose, so chances are you can take it for some weeks without suffering too much when getting off that, if that is your plan anyway. There is some odd variety in peoples tendency to get dependent on gabapentinoids.
Your doctor seems to know what they is doing, based on information you shared. I wish they can further help you.
I suggest taking quetiapine until withdrawals are over, if you can not sleep without that, but I don't exactly recommend using it for long time, even if it was exceptionally well tolerated neuroleptic. It is not particularly healthy medicine. I wish you can find a way to sleep with some less HC medicine, or, if that is possible, without medicines.
Gabapentin can also cause dependence and some issues over time, but 600 mg gabapentin is not really high dose, so chances are you can take it for some weeks without suffering too much when getting off that, if that is your plan anyway. There is some odd variety in peoples tendency to get dependent on gabapentinoids.
Your doctor seems to know what they is doing, based on information you shared. I wish they can further help you.
daturetard
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Seroquel for sure. Antipsychotics are known for causing inability to feel pleasure. It's horrible that they're used at all let alone off lable. I'd switch that for 50 mg of doxylamine (which you should also got off as soon as possible) or something like relaxium/ other sleep supplements.
100mg of seroquel is too much imo.
For sleep I'd recommend 25mg of seroquel, chewed and held sublingually. Sublingual administration of seroquel results in quicker sleep inducing effects, at a lower dose, and perhaps most importantly, less hangover/next day effects since it's more quickly absorbed and thus eliminated from the bloodstream. I'd say 50mg maximum for this purpose. 100mg is too much.
Also, the gabapentin may be making the kratom feel weaker (especially at such low a dose of kratom). Part of kratom's action is on calcium channels, and this overlaps with gabapentin.
The combo in particular will blunt the effects of kratom.
For sleep I'd recommend 25mg of seroquel, chewed and held sublingually. Sublingual administration of seroquel results in quicker sleep inducing effects, at a lower dose, and perhaps most importantly, less hangover/next day effects since it's more quickly absorbed and thus eliminated from the bloodstream. I'd say 50mg maximum for this purpose. 100mg is too much.
Also, the gabapentin may be making the kratom feel weaker (especially at such low a dose of kratom). Part of kratom's action is on calcium channels, and this overlaps with gabapentin.
The combo in particular will blunt the effects of kratom.
daturetard
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^adding to the less hangover comment, lower doses of quiteapine are actually more sedating than higher doses.
psychiatryonline.org
Try halfing your dose if not trying other sedatives entirely
A Brief Review of Quetiapine | American Journal of Psychiatry Residents' Journal
PsychiatryOnline.org is the platform for all American Psychiatric Association Publishing journals, DSM, and bestselling textbooks, as well as APA Practice Guidelines, and continuing medical education.
I have experienced mirtazapine and gabapentin feeling like good medicinal combo. Might knock out better than quetiapine and does not feel like shit. But mirtazapine has also quite a few issues, but you can ask your doctor if you could try that instead also.
Epic thank you all for the help!! Last night i got away without taking any Seroquel i feel like i might be in the clear finally and my circadian rhythm is finally beginning to get reset as well as the PAWS from my recent detox wearing off. Not feeling much withdrawal from the eszopiclone surprisingly and hope i have the same outcome with the seroquel and gabapentin… i may try to cut the gabapentin down to 300 or 0 tonight. It definitely was the building effect of the seroquel the last few weeks because I’ve been taking gabapentin much longer and it never had me this dull. As far as sleep my anxiety is very low so the cannabis has been more helpful for sleep (don't usually use cannabis for anxiety tends to make it worse). Doxylamine and diphenhydramine both give me terrible RLS which is also why i take the gabapentin. Andybody know how long it will take for the cumulative effect of seroquel to wear off? How long until kratom starts working again? Different strains maybe to try (kratom)? Planning on wating at least another week or two until trying kratom again. I hate feeling like a zombie… I appreciate all of the input!
Amazing… I’m done with that sh*t
Great for when you’re having extreme ups and downs but definitely not just a sleeping med like the doc told me…
Per usual docs withholding extremely valuable info.
I’m done with it.. I haven’t taken it in 3 days couldn’t sleep last night so took 75mg with my gabapentin and ended up still needed the eszopiclone (the reason i started taking it was to get off of eszopiclone!) this is ridiculous again doctors are cooked I should’ve been one and i now feel like a damn zombie…^adding to the less hangover comment, lower doses of quiteapine are actually more sedating than higher doses.
Try halfing your dose if not trying other sedatives entirelyA Brief Review of Quetiapine | American Journal of Psychiatry Residents' Journal
PsychiatryOnline.org is the platform for all American Psychiatric Association Publishing journals, DSM, and bestselling textbooks, as well as APA Practice Guidelines, and continuing medical education.
i really hope your right lets see how this goes…
Amazing… I’m done with that sh*t
Great for when you’re having extreme ups and downs but definitely not just a sleeping med like the doc told me…
Per usual docs withholding extremely valuable info.
Yeah, it's incredibly irresponsible for docs to casually prescribe it for sleep, especially doses of 50mg+. 100mg is stupid amount for sleep and will cause grogginess and dysphoria well into the next day. It is completely off label for sleep, studies have shown it actually worsens sleep quality. It's a side effect from the opioid epidemic, which cause docs to stop prescribing benzos and z-drugs as well, so they started handing out a powerful neuroleptic antipsychotic instead...
While I do still use it for sleep occasionally, just 12.5mg is more than enough to induce sleep for me... but these days I just take 50mg of DPH benadryl for sleep. Safer, and about as effective.
Luckily it is the shortest acting half life of modern antipsychotics with a half life of only 6 hours (plus a less active metabolite of about 8 hours). It will be completely, physically, out of your system in just a few days.
Most others have half lives of 24-30+ hours....
They even have evil long lasting injections that last 6+ months. Imagine that shitty feeling you had, every single day, for the rest of your life.
It may give you some empathy for people that are forced to take them due to various psychiatric disorders.
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Yea i hate that i had to find out that its not FDA approved for what hes writing it for let alone the massive doses i dont need as i dont suffer from anyuthing seroquel helps with... but ok hopefully it clears before the weekend because the dysphoria has me in a bad place mentally. For sure gives me empathy my buddy has to take it for his BPD. DO they write 12.5mg scripts or do you split a 25mg? also i love how DPH makes me feel but for sleep i cant stand the RLS i get from it. and that goes for any antihistamine with me unfortunately. even Unisom and Melatonin...
25mg is the lowest dose prescribed, yet is also rarely prescribed that low for misguided reasons. Last time I visited a shrink, I specifically asked for seroquel for sleep-- because I presumed she would not be willing to prescribe anything else. She gave me 100mg pills. I'd chop them up into tiny fucking pieces just for 10-15mg.
When I was younger, I used to have that same opinion and reaction. It would give me RLS. I always HATED DPH and anticholinergics in general.
But for whatever reason, these days DPH does not give me RLS at all. Works well for me again... unless I'm in opioid withdrawal, then it makes the RLS worse.
Also, seroquel can give RLS as well, because it's pharmacologically complex and also acts as an anticholinergic like DPH at certain doses. Typically lower dosages.... ironically used for sleep.
I feel like if anything is sedating but doesn’t cause sleep it causes rls… I could be trippin but I feel as if I don’t fall asleep from whatever substance I have consumed (Hydroxazine, melatonin, thc) they all cause RLS… granted it only happens at night.