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What made you find faith, or what turn against it?

lecroute said:
For some people it's a major event (catastrophe, miracle) that made them find or lose their faith.
For others it was a slow process, triggered either by someone close or through reflection.
Others just follow through with what they were taught growing up.

What was it for you?
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Sobriety and the past 3 years or so of praying (even when I didn't believe it, especially when I didn't) seems to have sprung a leak of faith into me.
 
I've never had a faith in something external to myself,. Except perhaps looking to the night sky and hoping that there has to be at least one other planet out there with life like us, that has transcended violence of taxation and all our bullshit jazz.

Inwardly, I never lost faith, though it is largely drowned out ceaseless noisy bullshit of the modern world.

However, faith really isn't the right word. It's not about believing something separate from yourself. This is where religions have done the most damage, making a marvel of an individual, a superhero, or some nebulous God or pantheon of Gods. I truly believe there is an organic, transcendental potentiality, an evolutionary potential, within human beings that is our birth right and available to all. Something which when taken its full conclusion renders the need for faith obsolete. All the mystics known and unknown were just early bloomers.

I suppose you could say I have faith in the assertions of those mystics that one can do the same as they did. But again it's not really a faith, I don't believe it, because I've tasted enough already to know that it is real.
 
The definition of faith is belief in something that has no proof.

When people say they are of a "Faith", what they really mean is Religion. One can have faith in a higher power without belonging to a religion, or accepting any doctrines.
For over 40 years I had faith there was a higher power, but belonged to absolutely no religion. Faith is in the "heart", not written down.
 
Prayed every night thst cunt die in his sleepnever did my wife practicing Catholic my mom died this year she think we meet in heaven I think I never see mom wish I could have faith it just not there
 
lecroute said:
Does being spiritual automatically mean that you have faith?
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I don't like the word spiritual. It can be a problem when a word or term is widespread and commonly used despite having such an ambiguous definition. I've told people before that I don't believe in "spirits" or ghosts. And so often the response is something like: "It's not about literal spirits and ghosts! It's a feeling". I actually agree with that. So why don't we just call it that then? A human feeling.

Other people will use the word loosely in relation to yoga and listening to Zen music. It's not really a feeling, just a mood based on the atmosphere you've created.

And then there ARE others that do indeed attach a magical or supernatural component to the word.

On an occasion or two you've encouraged people to be more respectful. And I get it. But sometimes it's so hard for people to share their true feelings without insulting or offending others. For example when someone says faith is something they feel within, and I feel like they're wrong (in terms of the source of that feeling) do I just have to sit there and shut the hell up? But conversely what's the alternative? Who am I to tell them they're wrong about THEIR feelings? But at the same time, who are they to tell me I'm wrong for doubting the reliability of human feelings?

lol... I feel myself starting to go off topic again.

But earlier in this thread I tried to touch on the reasons why the God/atheist debate is basically impossible. And how each side can't even agree on the foundational rules that lead to questions, semantics, etc. And here is one such example of this: Many Christians, I'm sure not all, but many Christians interpret atheists as denying or rejecting God. I actually feel like I'm rejecting PEOPLE. Which includes the thousands of religions people have made up. Which includes Jehovah and any number of recognizable gods. If I would have been one of the people being herded around by Moses I think I would have been like: "Fuck this shit. He goes up on a mountain, doesn't let anyone see what he's doing up there, and comes back with stone tablets from God? Yeah fuckin' right!". I wouldn't even consider it a rejection of God on my part. I would have told Moses to suck one and I would have perambulated elsewhere.

And if I have that view of Moses I am also going to have that view of the Bible's other authors, or the person on the street that's telling me when the world is going to end, and yes, even people that claim THEIR feelings/spirituality are linked with God, magic... however you wish to word it. Do such people really believe I don't have emotional moments too? Like epiphanies and what not? I simply do not assign unnecessary meanings to these feelings.

So anyway that's what I mean about the foundational rules in this "debate". Many people might ask me why I'm rejecting God. And right off the bat Im thinking loaded question! I reject man-made bullshit! We can't even agree on the legitimacy of the questions!
 
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lol... I've always imagined a scenario where I'm dead wrong about religion. And that Christianity was 100% right. And one day I'm in front of God on judgement day and he asks me about my lack of faith and rejecting him. And I'd be like:

"If you're omnipotent then you KNOW that's not true! I rejected people! All the people that I thought made this bull-shit up! The same people that thought epileptics were possessed by demons! Look at all the other BS people have been wrong about through the centuries. Stuff that's not even related to religion! And you really expected me to believe this bullshit!?!?!?"
 
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Cheshire_Kat said:
The definition of faith is belief in something that has no proof.
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In that case, the only time I had faith was when I was a child and still believed in the metaphysical scientific theories of black holes and the big bang.
Cheshire_Kat said:
Faith is in the "heart", not written down.
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See, I find this statement contradictory to the first I quoted, because if you feel something in your heart then that to me is proof, because it is tangible. You may not interpret it correctly on an intellectual level, because the impulses coming to the heart are not qualified and we colour them accordingly - much the same as psychic impressions on a psychedelic trip that get misconstrued i.e. 'I am Jesus!' - but the underlying nature of them is tangible and proof in itself, even if it is subjective.

I find faith to be an intellectual thing. I don't believe anyone really feels they believe in God from a purely intellectual standpoint, and conversely those who identify as atheist or agnostic are in fact the ones with faith.. because it takes a tremendous amount of intellectual willpower to hold up a concept structure like that, to be able to look at yourself looking at the world and honestly believe that is all the result of neuronal activity and a haphazard chance event (big bang) that in itself is inherently contradictory.
 
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-=SS=- said:
the impulses coming to the heart are not qualified and we colour them accordingly
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Love this!

-=SS=- said:
and honestly believe that is all the result of neuronal activity and a haphazard chance event (big bang) that in itself is inherently contradictory.
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Not so much this, though. I don't want to speak for all atheists but a good amount of us haven't come to this conclusion.
 
Asparagus_Prince said:
Not so much this, though. I don't want to speak for all atheists but a good portion of us haven't come to this conclusion.
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Right.
I'm not sure about the "all only neurological activity" and I refuse to accept the big bang theory as a given fact.
 
lecroute said:
I refuse to accept the big bang theory as a given fact.
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Yeah, me too. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that I'm mostly apathetic when it comes to the Big Bang theory and/or scientific pursuits to explain everything. I don't really care.

Edit: That's not actually true. I do care about knowledge/facts and the scientific pursuit of truth. I guess I get slightly annoyed when people stereotype atheists as being enthusiastic followers of science. Almost as though THAT is our religion. How the universe works is mildly interesting to me, but not especially. I care about it far less than most people probably assume. I don't care how this computer in front of me works, either.
 
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Pickledlemons said:
Faith is defined as believing something without evidence. And I don't consider that a good thing. So thats why I don't 'have faith,'
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In the name of contextualizing I'm going to stand up for the religious here and say that I disagree.

If I say something like: "My team sucks and probably won't win. But I'm still keeping the faith" then sure, your definition is close enough.

But in the context of religion faith is their word. It's kinda their thing so let them have it. I don't like it when they define what atheism is for me.

Besides, a lot of religious people will argue there IS evidence. Maybe not proof, but evidence.
 
Asparagus_Prince said:
What about the fact that the earth is round and not flat? Do you accept that as fact?
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it's a physical fact in our 3D space.
but perception is not only about physicality.
so unless you believe satellite images are real, or travel high enough to see it with your own eyes, all you perceive is that the earth is flat.
and there yo can decide if it's worth your time and energy to ponder about the possibility that maybe we only see what our brains are wired to see, and the earth is, in fact, a hypercube (like not a sphere at all)
 
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Asparagus_Prince said:
In the name of contextualizing I'm going to stand up for the religious here and say that I disagree.

If I say something like: "My team sucks and probably won't win. But I'm still keeping the faith" then sure, your definition is close enough.

But in the context of religion faith is their word. It's kinda their thing so let them have it. I don't like it when they define what atheism is for me.

Besides, a lot of religious people will argue there IS evidence. Maybe not proof, but evidence.
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Other people can believe whatever they want, I was just answering the question as for why I don't have faith.
 
Pickledlemons said:
Faith is defined as believing something without evidence. And I don't consider that a good thing. So thats why I don't 'have faith,'
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Actually I was thinking quite the opposite in some cases. When I get out of bed every morning I have faith the floor won't cave in when I set down on it and that is based on past experience.

As I say that we can all look at our life and pick out what we decided to have faith in. Some people put all their faith in their doctors. If the doc says take the med people take it. So faith encompasses both having experience or putting it in something that we don't have evidence for.

I think Terrence McKenna said it wonderfully in one of his talks. Logically it is easier to believe a drunken deity pissed us out into creation that believe something came from nothing.

Mother Nature winks at us though. We form time through rotations and circles around the sun. Days, months, years all based off natural measurements. But Mother Nature winks when we try and define time by something bigger, like the rotation of a galaxy. ;)
 
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