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Russo-Ukrainian War v. World War 3?

thujone said:
It may be insanity or it may be a sign that Ukraine is trying to secure a better position for negotiating a ceasefire
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This might be stupid question, but does this mean they essentially ‘sacrificed’ their people in order to negotiate a ceasefire?
 
pixies+ said:
This might be stupid question, but does this mean they essentially ‘sacrificed’ their people in order to negotiate a ceasefire?
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That assumes a negotiation is forthcoming. The rhetoric from Russia since then is more antagonistic and offensive operations have increased.

Maybe Ukraine is holding Sudzha as a short-term bargaining chip and Plan B is to just sabotage it.
 
thujone said:
Maybe Ukraine is holding Sudzha as a short-term bargaining chip and Plan B is to just sabotage it.
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There was international news yesterday that Germany has issued an arrest warrant for a Ukrainian in relation to the Nordstream sabotage. This is bollocks, since the evidence of the explosions clearly indicates that it had to have been a sizeable or sophisticated military operation.

It was all over various news sites. Whereas when Seymour Hersh put out his claims - and other bits of evidence like Liz Truss' phone call etc - weren't really conveyed by the MSM with such authority. This suggests to me that Ukraine is about to get thrown under the bus by the international community, that this clown show conflict has served its purpose whatever that might ultimately be.

We're probably going to see a rapid shift to other narratives now. Iran/Israel, or another pandemic. Just like what happened at the start of this Ukraine thing, when covid just suddenly dropped off the face of the Earth and Ukraine was shoved in front of the masses minds.
 
deficiT said:
Ah I see. Hadn't been paying much attention, and yeah this thread wasn't active for a while.

It sounds like it was yeah, I'm not sure why they would attempt that. How long ago did they invade?


It certainly seems like there are several world governments that are all on board for ww3
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they wanted boosted moral of their forces,which loosing ground in Pokrovsk and Gorrlovka district everyday-first.Second-trhe plan is to grab more land,which they wanted to give them more higher ground in eventualy negotiations-a n illusiory ill thinking of Zelenski and it's allies from NATO(the private army of the deep state)-there would not be negotiations.Third-ill clown wanna show his masters that he deserved more money and weapon-all attention of America was dragged on upon different stage-Gaza and the clown feels sad....no public,lost of interest...etc....it would be lesser and lesser care ofU.S....same who win elections-this is now problem of poor decaying Europe
 
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@Nas47 , Do you think Russia will go for Sloviansk&kramatorsk before sitting at a hipotetical negociation table?
Do you think that russians will be able to deffend Dombass without taking any more land?

And, just another thing, once that this carnage finally ends, what do you think Zelensky and the Junta can expect from the future?
 
Russians needs a sanitary zone-that means a territorry about 200km from their borders.Artilery fires at about 40km..planning bombs like those thatU.S.,Brits and France gave to Zelenski and who fired by plains,but also could be from the ground-80-90km...Rockets fired from land could reached more than 200km...nonpiloting planes reach thousand km.....so safe zone to Russian is a Dnepr river....they also would not allow Odessa(which is city inhabitted by russians,people there speak on russian not Move and the city is build by russian empress Ekaterina The Great) and any part of the sea to the enemy-cause there is real threat to Crime and eventually NATO base.....the problem here is not Zelenski or whatever new leader that they would have....the real problem is NATO...This war is their war.....cause if they loose their existence is at real danger-this is just a bottomless pit that every country must put enormous ammount of money,while their citizens got poorer and poorer...and they steal too...what ya think...corruption and theft are now everywhere....This allience is no more defensive alliance,but offensive one....just the next firm which sucks precious resources....and their scared pooer people that this terrible tyrant will invade Europe....what a fockin nonsense.....nor Russia,nor China wants war.....they wanna trade.....the war make some little part of society in the west mega rich,while hundread thousands rotten on the fields.....these people are real plague...much worst than any mafia.....these war boost economic of Russia too....majority of people don't need this shit-this bring only tears,suffer,hate,division an poverty for ordinary men...The wounds in former Yugoslavia are still not healed...and are passed thirty years or so....what a terrible times brother:cry::cry::cry:
 
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Nas47 said:
Russians needs a sanitary zone-that means a territorry about 200km from their borders.Artilery fires at about 40km..planning bombs like those thatU.S.,Brits and France gave to Zelenski and who fired by plains,but also could be from the ground-80-90km...Rockets fired from land could reached more than 200km...nonpiloting planes reach thousand km.....so safe zone to Russian is a Dnepr river....they also would not allow Odessa(which is city inhabitted by russians,people there speak on russian not Move and the city is build by russian empress Ekaterina The Great) and any part of the sea to the enemy-cause there is real threat to Crime and eventually NATO base.....the problem here is not Zelenski or whatever new leader that they would have....the real problem is NATO...This war is their war.....cause if they loose their existence is of real threat-this is just a bottomless pit that every country must put enormous ammount of money,while their citizens got poorer and poorer...and they steal too...what ya think...corruption and theft are now everywhere....This allience is no more defensive alliance,but offensive one....just the next firm which sucks precious resources....and their scared pooer people that this terrible tyrant will invade Europe....what a fockin nonsense.....nor Russia,nor China wants war.....they wanna trade.....the war make some little part of society in the west mega rich,while hundread thousands rotten on the fields.....these people are real plague...much worst than any mafia.....these war boost economic of Russia too....majority of people don't need this shit-this bring only tears,suffer,hate,division an poverty for ordinary men...The wounds in former Yugoslavia are still not healed...and are passed thirty years or so....what a terrible times brother:cry::cry::cry:
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love ya too @Robi ....nothing bad about trans people...they bring colour in this dark world...the problem is that mothafockas use these groups and all other societies-like immigrants like political tools to spread division and hate amongst people.....'cause a divided people,who hate each other are just an easy controlled brain-washed flock upon which they can get experiments how to create a "New human"....more scary even than nazis
 
Nas47 said:
love ya too @Robi ....nothing bad about trans people...they bring colour in this dark world...the problem is that mothafockas use these groups and all other societies-like immigrants like political tools to spread division and hate amongst people.....'cause a divided people,who hate each other are just an easy controlled brain-washed flock upon which they can get experiments how to create a "New human"....more scary even than nazis
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Why I took that as you took me for a trans ,I dunno...but I was born a female and still am one...I think. Maybe look up my skirt for me?
Grinding Music Video GIF by Bebe Rexha
Now back to our regular scheduling
 
Robi said:
Why I took that as you took me for a trans ,I dunno...but I was born a female and still am one...I think. Maybe look up my skirt for me?
Grinding Music Video GIF by Bebe Rexha
Now back to our regular scheduling
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i know that u are female;)....just looks like supportive trans people...that's why i comment this way
 
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Whatever else you want call it, its certainly an embarrassment for a strong man like Putin. We in the west really don't understand the way Russians think and vice versa. There has been no protests or partisans, the Russians are de-politicized. They just don't care who's at the top because they feel they have no agency over it. 'But if Putin can't even protect the border.... maybe Ukraine can. Guess we'll see.... on with my day' is probably all thats going through their minds.
 
maaan...it is very easy to enter in Russia,but very difficult to go out..Do u know that?All enter with force in that country finished really bad....U arte terribly wrong..Ofcourse they know that without their leader with Russia is over-that's why not partisans...the majority of russians are behind him...don't u understand that thing u westerner?His power is people power....All the hyenas will cut it on little pieces. this vast territory without a tyranic leader on power..but this stupid assholes in the west did not even realize how luck they have with Putin....the next leader eventually could become someone like Prigozhin and Putin would seem to them like a good oldman....no way tyo dicuss with u...Obvious Ukrainian or Polish?Why u not defending ur country and go in trenches while ur brothers dying?Why not leave Canada and volunteered there....even not like a soldier,but helping in some hospital?
 
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Take a breath man.

Its a gamble thats for sure. Don't blame them for taking it though. Russia is an existential threat to them. If Trump gets elected he's gonna want negotiations (or at least his slimy VP will) and in that case, Ukraine needs some chips to trade. They're grabbing some chips. Will it pay off? Who knows? Their opsec is fantastic though.
 
Pickledlemons said:
Whatever else you want call it, its certainly an embarrassment for a strong man like Putin. We in the west really don't understand the way Russians think and vice versa. There has been no protests or partisans, the Russians are de-politicized. They just don't care who's at the top because they feel they have no agency over it. 'But if Putin can't even protect the border.... maybe Ukraine can. Guess we'll see.... on with my day' is probably all thats going through their minds.
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Russians aren't de-politized, they are hellbent, politically hellbent to keep being a country not ruled from outside, just like the rest of Europe is, if we take Serbia apart. That is their ideology.
Western democratic systems, the ones I like to live in, are only one form of politics.
The vast majority of the world don't live by western democratic standars, but that doesn't mean for a second that they don't care about politics.

And ukrainians aren't hiper-pro-Zelensky politized, neither. Many of them were opossed to the Maidan coup and regime, but they were killed, like burnung alive in Odessa's trade union building, or hunted across the country and beyond. Hundreds of thousands of ukrainian lefties, Russian speakers and others were prosecuted and outlawed.
All the media have told us the misery (very real and human misery) of the ukrainian refugees in Poland, but no media will tell you about their fellow countrymen who became refugess in Russia, running away from Kiev's army and milita; even more: if western media fancy to talk about these ukrainians who went to Russia, they like to tell us that they were kidnapped!!
 
Señor Moreno said:
Russians aren't de-politized, they are hellbent, politically hellbent to keep being a country not ruled from outside, just like the rest of Europe is, if we take Serbia apart. That is their ideology.
Western democratic systems, the ones I like to live in, are only one form of politics.
The vast majority of the world don't live by western democratic standars, but that doesn't mean for a second that they don't care about politics.

And ukrainians aren't hiper-pro-Zelensky politized, neither. Many of them were opossed to the Maidan coup and regime, but they were killed, like burnung alive in Odessa's trade union building, or hunted across the country and beyond. Hundreds of thousands of ukrainian lefties, Russian speakers and others were prosecuted and outlawed.
All the media have told us the misery (very real and human misery) of the ukrainian refugees in Poland, but no media will tell you about their fellow countrymen who became refugess in Russia, running away from Kiev's army and milita; even more: if western media fancy to talk about these ukrainians who went to Russia, they like to tell us that they were kidnapped!!
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If you were to talk to experts in the field, they would tell you the same thing. Obviously its not every Russian, and that doesn't include the ambitions of the leader's themselves. But a good 50-60% of them are de-politicized. Its a tactic of Russian propaganda. Basically flood the air waves with contradictory information until people just say f it I don't care. Thats why so many Russians say "I"m not into politics," cause why would they be? Its not like they have any agency over it.
 
Well, @Pickledlemons, "experts in the field" have their masters, you know
It's obvious that a "expert" talking for the russian public TV can't be trusted 100% as he is doing his job for his employers.
Knowing that, why should us 100% trust "experts in the field" when they talk for CNN, BBC .. or writting in western media?
Every side has his agend, every agenda has its propaganda and every propaganda needs its own lyars.
Thinking of a russian "experts" as a propaganda agents is probably right; so is taking western ones
 
pixies+ said:
What would be the point in doing this? I’m trying to make it make sense..?
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Zelenskyy's government wants to make Russia pay a higher price for this war, specifically a civilian price. They are sending the message that "Since you've invaded us, we can rightfully invade you. If our civilians can be killed, so can yours." Basically, Ukraine is looking to hold a Russian town as a hostage. It is to create anxiety and to motivate Russians to want to end the war.

Ukraine is desperate because it is losing badly. It cannot win just going head-to-head with its army against the Russian army. That's not much of a contest. Russian soldiers get killed, but far, far more Ukrainian soldiers die, as Russia takes control of more and more Ukrainian territory. So Ukraine needs to get creative in making Russia pay a price that it may get tired of paying. I doubt this new strategy is going to pay off for Ukraine. It will just cause Russia to increase the brutality of its own approach, which has been somewhat restrained IMHO.
 
T
DesertHarp said:
Zelenskyy's government wants to make Russia pay a higher price for this war, specifically a civilian price. They are sending the message that "Since you've invaded us, we can rightfully invade you. If our civilians can be killed, so can yours." Basically, Ukraine is looking to hold a Russian town as a hostage. It is to create anxiety and to motivate Russians to want to end the war.

Ukraine is desperate because it is losing badly. It cannot win just going head-to-head with its army against the Russian army. That's not much of a contest. Russian soldiers get killed, but far, far more Ukrainian soldiers die, as Russia takes control of more and more Ukrainian territory. So Ukraine needs to get creative in making Russia pay a price that it may get tired of paying. I doubt this new strategy is going to pay off for Ukraine. It will just cause Russia to increase the brutality of its own approach, which has been somewhat restrained IMHO.
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Thanks for your response.
 
Why is it that absolutely everything has to be a conspiracy theory on these forums?

"Scientists say the earth is round"

"Yeah, well who's paying those scientists????"

If I keep hearing stuff like that I think it might de-politize me.

Ah hah! I've uncovered your plot! Don't think you can fool me.
 
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