switch off your tv and read a book, man. that gogglebox will rot your brain, telling you what to think.
alasdair
2024 US Presidential Election
- Thread starter alasdairm
- Start date
switch off your tv and read a book, man. that gogglebox will rot your brain, telling you what to think.
alasdair
in my experience, many people who rail against woke can't even explain, in simple terms, what it is...
alasdair
Vastness
Bluelight Crew
woke (adjective):
a little too progressive, forward thinking, or free for my delicate, conservative, retrogressive sensibilities.
a little too progressive, forward thinking, or free for my delicate, conservative, retrogressive sensibilities.
LucidSDreamr
Bluelighter
2 and 3 don’t even matter as far as being true if you just fix 1.
Vastness
Bluelight Crew
That definition sucks, talk about hyperbole, no-one in real life outside of memes and internet echo chambers really believes absolutes such as "ALL gaps in performance are indicative of oppressive structures in society" (obviously not, people with brain damage or learning disabilities? people with more or less interest or expertise in a given topic, the latter being voluntary as a result of the former? people born with genetic gifts in certain sports, yadda yadda...) ...and "without regard to performance", pffft, this definition actually seems to describe Trumpism a bit better than "Wokeism".
1) All of society is currently and intentionally structured to oppress by the "elites" (Democrats, MSM, progressive nazi environmentalist radicals, academia, science.)
2) all gaps in performance between large groups illustrate this (Trump never lost an election, it was fraud. The only reason some people believe scientists over "alternative facts" tiktok vaccine-skeptic, climate change denying, conspiracy grifters is because of the aforementioned conspiracy, not because some people might be more qualified to speak about certain topics, oh no, how dare anyone try to restrict my free speech to state my own opinion about something I know nothing about)
3) Haha, where to start with this one... if Western democracy had tried just a little less hard to give even the most deranged, malevolent criminals a voice, in the name of free speech and "equity" no matter how much they might absolutely suck at improving society, then we wouldn't be in the huge mess we're in now.
Besides that - if we just forget about the obvious strawmanning of every supposedly "woke" concept ever - what's the issue with a slightly less absolute version of these beliefs as a reasonable foundation in pursuit of creating a fairer society?
The frequency with which "woke" is used as a pejorative would seem to indicate some truly detestable moral crimes inherent to these viewpoints, but #1 is quite literally exactly what the loudest, most hysterical opponents of wokeness are always saying, and again, if we take away the strawmen at the absolutist edges of #2 and #3, let's have some examples of why a general movement towards equity is worthy of such disdain as to post such a cringey meme.
If a given individual cannot perform as well as Elon Musk or Donald Trump - for example because they didn't have a rich daddy and they weren't insufferable narcissists, comfortable with the ruthlessness of present-day capitalism - and they're unfortunate enough to live in, I dunno, the third world, or a certain part of the West running headfirst towards dystopia where if they get cancer and have no money they're fucked - isn't it kinda just a nice, morally unambiguous idea to say hey, that person should have the same opportunities as Donald Trump and Elon Musk had, we should try to create a society where people aren't punished for simple bad luck their entire lives?
Otherwise what do we do with our hypothetical homeless US citizen with the start of an aggressive form of cancer, easily treated in most of the civilized world with socialized medical systems, but not in our Trumpian dystopia...? Tell them to get their shit together and work harder? Coz helping the poor is woke, right.
AngelsandFairiesarereal
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2022
- Messages
- 3,727
right. what would jesus do? what, indeed.
woke seems to be a(nother) shortcut to avoiding discussing issues on their merits. just label it 'woke' and move on. it's the stuff of miserable cunts like boebert and mtg who care more about twitter-friendly soundbites to whip up their bases, than it is about doing anything to, you know, help people. like jesus might do...
alasdair
LucidSDreamr
Bluelighter
I’m kinda glad they are using woke now.
The congressional GED/pentacostal preacher caucus was using “radical Marxists” and “groomer” for so long and that was annoying.
Vastness
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, there are no coherent solutions to any of the problems that the woke-police spend so much energy raging about, and the smarter ones or perhaps just the eviler ones recognize this and do anything they can to avoid having to actually justify their own bullshit...
There is quite obviously just no endgame for the sort of overtly regressive policies pursued by the cunts like MTG, or indeed DJT, our favorite cartoon villain who might still doom the human race. Like... say the US DID somehow manage to build a wall on the Mexican border, categorically abandon NATO, and indulge all the darkest Trumpian fantasies, dismantling all civil services, checks and balances on the power of the presidential office, rolling back rights for women, gays, minorities, etc... What is the USA going to look like in 10 or 15 years time? It would quite obviously be a fucking disaster.
I often wonder what kind of future planet Earth these nutters are envisioning, we all live in completely segregated, walled off national fortresses with little knowledge or interest but a huge, huge amount of suspicion about everyone else? All quietly militarizing to the extreme in brutally oppressive regimes until either the entire top heavy house of cards fails entirely, either violently or sadly and slowly, new science having ground to a halt, international exchange of knowledge or trade nonexistent, and minor civil wars and skirmishes over the last remnants of the forests and the few unpolluted bodies of water, environmental regulations having been entirely abandoned in pursuit of money and power.
Yet another type of stupid are the billionaires throwing their support behind Trump, like, HELLO?! Have they seen what happens to oligarchs in totalitarian regimes?
The only thing I can think is that all of these people figure that the pace of change will be slow enough that they'll be dead before they have to worry about their grandchildren fighting for rations once the equatorial regions of the Earth become borderline uninhabitable and no one is allowed in or out of the massive, fortified walls around the coast.
Education standards will have declined to levels not seen since the middle ages with schools paying more attention to teaching the Ten Commandments than actual useful skills, so strange myths and whacky conspiracies even battier than those that people believe in today will take root, and be cultivated relentlessly by the remaining dictators to make sure no-one can understand or even remember what an absolute fucking mess they made of the future of humanity.
Eventually, obviously, large states will begin to fail, even if bickering lunatics don't kick off an ill-advised nuclear war. China might survive although the CCCP won't, some remnant of Europe might survive if they unify and militarize quickly enough to repel a newly emboldened Russia without US support. Although even if Russia manages to dominate Europe early with a suicidal nuclear assault it will be a hollow victory because Putin has already doomed it, there's just no coming back there.
Once large states begin to fail entirely, because their governments have checked out from the actual business of running a modern society, all the fucking libertarian retards who imagine they can just hole up in a self-sufficient enclave in the hills will soon find themselves in trouble when it turns out that it was, in fact, the influence and protection of a large, stable government that was the only thing that ever made their infantile fantasies remotely workable, even if it was never sustainable, and different starving bands of "libertarians", lost without the luxuries enabled by a centralized financial system and the organized industry of societies that aren't dystopias of dumbfuckery, will abandon their meaningless "non-aggression principle" and launch attacks on rival tribes for the few resources that remain.... aaaand congratulations humanity, we're back to being cavemen. But at least we stuck it to those woke libtards, wohey.
Haha, sorry for the long post, too much dexamphetamine today evidently... anyway hopefully none of that will happen, Trump will choke and die on a piece of tofu or something, and then eventually but less importantly - like, so much less importantly than getting America past whatever psychological dysfunction exists in those in power that means Trump is not in prison - we can also have someone in power who's young and actually stands for something that matters, like making everyone's life better, and making the future brighter.... It's a shame about Joe Biden for sure, although it's more of a shame that his mental state actually seems to matter to anyone given the alternative.
I'm not a US citizen so cannot vote but if I could I'd still vote for a dead dog or a headless chicken or probably that lady who was caught on CCTV putting a cat into a bin one time, before Trump, and that's saying something.
mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2011
- Messages
- 40,119
Arguing it has historically existed, and arguing to what extent it still exists today are two separate conversations
smokeymcpot42088
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 2,619
Vastness -- Echo, or ditto. Or whatever means please read that I feel quite similarly.
mal3volent -- Systemic racism has historically existed. That is a starting point. It still exists today. Even if it didn't still exist *which it absolutely does*... Wouldn't the effects still be felt by the same families that did suffer it; therefor are indeed suffering from it themselves?
*Edit* Anyone else connect the dots that Trump is the one that had cut ALL US oversight of labs working with dangerous compounds such as AND COVID *INCLUDING THE WUHAN LAB* which it originated in. Watch the hearing on the origins of covid, I think it was the DOJ but not positive (not my favorite people either) but they had pretty much damn well guaranteed it came from a lab.
There is even a timeline of the Wuhan lab's advancements in its 'research' of covid. If you want a link to it lmk.
mal3volent -- Systemic racism has historically existed. That is a starting point. It still exists today. Even if it didn't still exist *which it absolutely does*... Wouldn't the effects still be felt by the same families that did suffer it; therefor are indeed suffering from it themselves?
*Edit* Anyone else connect the dots that Trump is the one that had cut ALL US oversight of labs working with dangerous compounds such as AND COVID *INCLUDING THE WUHAN LAB* which it originated in. Watch the hearing on the origins of covid, I think it was the DOJ but not positive (not my favorite people either) but they had pretty much damn well guaranteed it came from a lab.
There is even a timeline of the Wuhan lab's advancements in its 'research' of covid. If you want a link to it lmk.
Last edited:
mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2011
- Messages
- 40,119
Just so we're on the same page, what would you say are the top 3 examples of systemic racism that exists in 2024?
smokeymcpot42088
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 2,619
1. Poverty rate
2. Incarceration rate
3. The republican party?
*edit, I am a straight white dude so this isn't my area of expertise or anything...I can't blind eye it though.
2. Incarceration rate
3. The republican party?
*edit, I am a straight white dude so this isn't my area of expertise or anything...I can't blind eye it though.
Damn, I've got to improve my aim. That meme was targeted at alasdairm and instead you're the one with twisted panties.
But in regards to your two long winded rants, you seem to be stuck in some Trump/Putin fantasy land construction. You are just the mirror image of those you are accusing, you do know that right?
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Ever since the debate, every single fucking media article is just remixed versions of, "Biden's OLD!! .... Trump raped a girl!!!!.
I'm sick of it. I can't take it anymore.
Watching the US propaganda system glitch out and melt before our eyes.
The last 10 years has been nothing short of complete mockery of our country.
I'm sick of it. I can't take it anymore.
Watching the US propaganda system glitch out and melt before our eyes.
The last 10 years has been nothing short of complete mockery of our country.
If you would like to graduate from the enforced pre-school level political discourse, to the enforced 1st grade political discourse, then move to the UK. Here we're more refined than you yankies.
For example, our newly elected Labour party Foreign Secretary, David Lammy, believes that men can grow cervixes. It's an interesting discourse! Or perhaps you would like the non-stop tabloid coverage of what Harry and the Royals are doing every fucking day. Or maybe even you might enjoy a sermon from Sir Tony Blair, popping up days after the Labour election win to lecture the public on why we need Digital ID's, and every god damn media channel giving time for this utter parasite of a human.
Politics is such a god damn pantomime. I've been trying to tell people for years how it really works, the obvious levels above politics that actually call the shots, but the masses just eat this shit up like a dreary episode of Eastenders.
mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2011
- Messages
- 40,119
Yes, the reverberating effects of slavery and Jim Crow ultimately have had a major impact on poverty and incarceration amongst black populations... obviously you can trace the root cause back to race.
But I don't believe the disparities that still exist right now are primarily due to race. I think because it just so happens that a larger density of non whites live in urban areas, and urban areas tend to produce more crime, that is not necessarily an indicator of systemic racism.
Also, systemic racism implies to me that governmental agencies actively discriminate (as a rule) based on race. While we might be able to point out many individual instances of this occurring, there are also many examples that would counteract that narrative...
We've had a very popular two term President who was black, who ascended to the very top of our government . We've currently have a female black vice president, who could very well become president. The Supreme Court is more diverse than it has ever been. There are national holidays, entire months of the year when the government recognizes historically marginalized people. There are endless government programs, grants, loans, etc specifically targeted towards said people.
If this were 1964 instead of 2024 , yes, no doubt we'd be living in a country full of systemic racism. But can you point to any specific policies, laws, statutes, governmental practices, etc that negatively impact minority races right now?
steewith2ees
Bluelight Crew
I haven't been able to take any more in since your SCOTUS finished its decades long project to dismantle what little democracy and rule of law still existed in America (I know you, like the majority of US voters are probably not responsible for any of them cunts on that bench but they still have the nerve to claim that they are dismantling what progress had been made since the 1960's in YOUR name.)
The only reason I still have faith in the US is through interacting with individuals such as yourself, an actual majority with real insight, but words cannot describe how afraid I am of Trump getting back into office come the end of the year. I know I should keep my pathetic English thoughts to myself and my own joke of a failing state, but just because the UK is of no consequence to anyone including the US does not mean the reverse applies. We need America to function as a strategic ally as Trump does not nor has ever been interested in doing the job of US Pres and hates America almost as much as anything.
Joe Biden is a cunt, I remember the damage he did to non violent drug offenders back in the 90's as a Senator but he's actually capable, despite being too old and slow to make a surface level good impression. Roosevelt was able to drag the US and the wider world out of THE Great Depression, fight off an electoral challenge that could easily have become an Anti - Semitic Nazi collaborating government under Lindbergh and last but not least, win the WW2 Pacific Campaign as well as giving us (Europe) vital support in helping the Soviet Union to their undeniable European Victory. He not only endured a premature (if predictable) death while stuck into the job but managed to hang on until the whole shebang was a fait accompli, having spent the last 4 years dragging his poorly ass back and forth across the world to show good faith to an ally whose personal depravity could only be counteracted by the amazingly brave and resilient forces under his command. Surely, the Republic can survive at least one more term of a geriatric president if anyone really understands the ramifications of P2025 (at around 1000 pages I cannot say I have read every word but I have seen enough of the text as well as a wide range of summery commentators to realise how insane the whole thing is).