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Technology Faster than light speed ?

MedicinalUser247

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First of all, hypothetically... Nothing can go faster than a sphere or a disc. I know you think a pointed object is faster, but you can't warp the space around you with a pointed object. It's impossible. But it is possible to create a warp field around a sphere or a disc. This means if you wanted to go the fastest you would need a sphere or a disc shaped object to travel at faster than light speeds. This also comes down to what kind of engine you would need as a power source to travel at these speeds. You would need an antimatter engine. This is the only way to warp. I know you think I'm talking about something out of Startrack or something similar to that. But warping the space around an object is an actual thing scientist are studying in the field of physics. So, if you wanted to go faster than light speed think about a sphere or a disc. What are your thoughts on this ?
 
Do you have any literature or resources for scientists studying warping space around an object? I've never heard of this research before
 
To nitpick. Warp drives don't make one exceed the speed of light (and not just because they are so far in the future, that they are in the realm of science fiction), they change your reference frame allowing you to take "shortcuts" where you move a relatively short distance in your perception but end up very far away.

True faster than light travel (or even travel at C) is impossible. As you approach C the energy needed to accellerate you increases (an outside observer would observe your mass approaching infinity, though you wouldn't notice that in the ship, just an inability to keep accelerating with non-infinite energy sources).

To this day warp drives are more of consequences of some general relativity equations or something weird and fundamental, and people really haven't made anything that could do this task to an object let alone a human.
 
You didn't offend me, I just feel a need to comment when science fiction topics are presented as plausible. I admire your curiosity.

If you read the difficulties section on the link you provided, a fee big issues are raised. I would describe the whole thing as "the math works out, but it still lacks experimental validation, which is the sole currency of the science world".
 
I find this a very interesting topic, even though I do think, unfortunately, than sci-fi style superluminal ships are just not on the cards for us or any other species in this universe. True FTL means causality violations, ie, time travel, which is a whole can of worms that is mostly just ignored in space-opera style flitting around the universe at hundreds or thousands of times light speed. The universe might not actually be causal, of course, but if it isn't, and FTL turns out to be possible, somehow, then basically every spacefaring, superluminally-capable civilization would be immediately engaged in the immense effort of trying to stop people fucking up the timeline so they never even evolved... or something like that. It wouldn't be just cruising over to a pretty star a couple hundred light years away for a day trip and then back again.

That said - on the actual topic - yeah, "Warp Drives" which I think were named after the Star Trek term - although it is quite fitting - are a potential method to travel faster than light, if we just forget about all the causality stuff for a moment. Although firstly - no one is actually studying this. The Alcubierre Warp "theorem" or whatever is not an actual schematic for a superluminal engine. It's a mathematical flight of fancy, that might be theoretically possible but even if it would work as expected, not something that we could ever actually build.

For one - in order to create the warp, at least the back end of the "wave" that you intend to ride through space, you need to create a region of extreme negative energy densities which is something likely not possible on the macroscale. The usual or maybe just the original proposal was to use exotic matter, ie, some kind of material made up of particles that possessed negative mass, which would exert antigravitational effects. This type of exotic matter has never been observed, is not predicted in the standard model, is not permitted by the Higgs field which is what gives particles (positive) mass - and it probably just cannot exist, without delving too deeply into things I don't really understand but do find interesting, there have been some theoretical speculations that allow for exotic particles which do somehow have negative mass values, but when we try to incorporate any of these theories into a functioning universe all sorts of reasons pop up for why they just (probably) cannot exist.

For one - this material would have less energy than empty space (which does have energy) which would mean that vacuum could potentially decay into exotic matter. As there is far more vacuum than there is matter in the universe, this would seem to indicate a high likelihood of runaway vacuum decay just quickly swallowing up the universe. This could actually happen - "vacuum decay" is discussed as one of those outside-context-problems, nothing we could ever do to predict or stop it kind of Cthlulian cosmic horror scenarios, that in actual fact the entire universe exists in a region of the multiverse, or the fabric of space, whatever space actually is, that for some reason is in a temporarily excited state which allows for the configuration of the current laws of physics, but at any moment for reasons that we don't and could never understand, probably, the false vacuum could start to collapse, which would be a phenomenon that expanded from the first pinprick that burst the hypothetical bubble, so to speak, in every direction at the speed of light, ripping out the carpet of the universe on which the laws of physics rest from under everything, immediately cancelling those laws, and just, basically, deleting the universe... it would be like being an ant that built it's colony on one of those unlikely looking feats of erosion on Earth, some kind of precariously balanced rock that looks like it should have fallen over long ago but by some weird quirk is just balancing... you're minding your own business doing ant things and then suddenly one day the rock just tips over into the sea - or maybe more accurately, into an active volcano. Everything is gone.

Heh, sorry, back to Warp Drives... so the basic assumption/theory/working hypothesis is that the universe might be an end state of multiple earlier universes that one day suddenly were gone when their vacuums collapsed. We're talking cosmological timescales and about a place that we don't know anything about and can't even imagine, really (that place in which the universe sits) so a universe could potentially last a long time sitting on a such a false vacuum, like, trillions, quadrillions, heat-death timescales, even... and maybe it's possible that runaway vacuum decay is not an inevitable consequence of high negative energy densities being possible, in which case, if you do have a way to create a deeper vacuum than vacuum, you might have a way to create a warp field.

One counterpoint to the idea that negative energy densities cannot exist is that there is in fact a force that affects the universe in the same way that negative mass would, if more slowly than the most extreme vacuum decay disaster scenarios - Dark Energy, which is rapidly tearing the universe apart. So it seems that even though we know basically nothing about it, negative energy does exist. Whether it can be manipulated to build a warp bubble is kinda like asking if because wind exists, we could harness it to blow out the sun, but whatever, let's continue this flight of fancy.

Probably actual exotic matter is just going to be a headache if you're a godlike superintelligent being with the ability to move solar masses around and organise them in a way that deforms space just to get somewhere a little faster, you'd probably just want to interact directly with the inverse version of the Higgs field, breed dark energy bosons in accelerators with circumferences somewhere close to that of the Milky Way, and somehow work the end result into your engine... maybe you get a warp bubble. But there are still problems.

For one - it's hard to see how the bubble could be controlled - if you can manipulate the fabric of space with the absolutely enormous energies required - even allowing for later extrapolations of the theory which reduced the energy requirements significantly (from hundreds of suns to maybe just a couple of Jupiters, off the top of my head - so, maybe more convenient) it seems like this would be something you'd build in a dedicated facility - even if that facility was an array of dysoned supermassive black holes somewhere near the one at the center of our own galaxy... it would be like a shaped gravity wave, essentially, you just set it off with it's payload inside (or sitting inside it, perhaps) but then... how to steer? Or slow down?

It would be like a fly somehow ending up in a soap bubble and then trying to steer it without just destroying the bubble. You can't put machinery outside the bubble because then it wouldn't be englobed by the physics-defying structure and there'd be no point having it in the first place, and without being able to exert any influence on the outer edges of the field, poking the inside in any way is liable to just make it burst, and because of the energies involved this kind of collapse could be like a small supernova and would probably destroy everything inside the bubble as well.

There's also the problem that although theoretically it could move faster than light, and carry something inside it, practically as soon as you passed the lightspeed barrier all radiation impacting on the forward surface of the bubble (and this is just gonna be cosmic microwave background at best, but it doesn't matter, you can't avoid it) is gonna blueshift to infinity, either destabilizing the bubble explosively, or simply frying everything inside it which would rapidly become an oven turned up to the high end of the Planck temperature and probably eventually - again - explosively pop the bubble. And this blueshift problem would actually start before you even hit lightspeed.

But... we're thinking speculatively, I guess. If you can manipulate space to make a bubble in the first place, perhaps you can engineer some extra layers to guide the influx of radiation around a central cocoon. There's yet more fancy maths that proposes shrinking the bubble's exterior while expanding the inner volume, like a Tardis, in which case some of your blueshift problems are solved, I think, if the outer bubble is smaller than the wavelength of a gamma ray. But, you STILL might not be able to go faster than light because, fuck, I can't remember, there's some ideas about Chronology Protection Conjectures that basically means once you open the door to creating a Closed Timelike Curve (time machine), some weird shit happens with virtual particles that has essentially the same effect as the blueshift-to-infinity problem we had earlier, rapidly building up around all the spacetime distortions you need to create this thing until they just break apart... probably explosively.

So, maybe maybe maybe not completely impossible but probably completely impossible to build a warp drive that can actually go faster than light.

Slower than light warps while they still seem like immensely pointless and probably still impossible endeavors do not have all of the same problems that the superluminal versions do, so maybe someone could make one of those one day.

An alternative to an actual ship that goes faster than light, assuming you have the means to create massive negative energy densities, is to simply (lol, "simply") build a traversable wormhole that you set up and then leave wherever is convenient, which would enable faster than light travel effectively but only between 2 fixed points. If you get good at it though, start building a network and then who needs warp ships? You do have to be careful how you arrange them though because they do still open the door to possible causality violations, so if that virtual particle flux shit I can't recall the details of is true then if you make a mistake setting up the network then one or several will explosively collapse, and these things are also massive and dangerous to have around if they're liable to explode, so you're still gonna have some slower than light journey time to and from the wormhole mouths.

However! You can simulate a kind of faster than light travel using ships if you get good at subluminal spaceflight and building wormholes. Here are the steps, let's say you want to go a 1000 lightyears or so a bit more quickly.
  1. Create the wormhole - or wormholes, perhaps, because even though this is technically just 1 tunnel through space, it has 2 "mouths" which will appear to be separate things.

  2. Keep one wormhole at home, put the other on the most advanced, fastest, just state-of-the-art ship you can find, and accelerate it to your destination 1000 light years away as hard as possible, get as close to c as the ship can bear - relativistic time dilation will occur for the wormhole mouth that you loaded onto the ship, so that ~1000 year journey (probably a bit more but we're being pretty loose with the numbers) to anyone onboard the ship will only experience, say, 1 year of travel time!

  3. You can enter the wormhole mouth you kept at home whenever you want, and will essentially be travelling into the future, but after 1 year you'll have a bridge between regions of space 1000 light years apart, potentially, with no superluminal travel needed.


You're welcome, lol. In case it isn't obvious I've read quite a bit of the speculative fiction on orionsarm.com, and this is basically how they get around the FTL problem to still claim some kind of "hard science" and vast interstellar empires. It's scifi of course and very speculative, but if you're into that shit I'd recommend reading.
 
Thank you for your serious thought on this subject. I know it seams impossible to go faster than light, but were not a "Type 3 civilization" yet. If there were a "Type 3 civilization" out there they would be able to utilize this type of technology.
 
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You know I was thinking about the amount of energy needed to open up a wormhole and it would take the energy of an entire planet or the sun just to open up one wormhole. And yes wormholes are possible according to one of Einstein's field of equations. So, I am still thinking about it. Otherwise I think it would take an Alcubierre drive less energy to use.
 
Well... without having looked up the maths... (it is out there, although since again this is all highly speculative take it all with a grain of salt - although that said - to layperson non-mathematicians, it is surely still the most accurate information available short of trying to come up with your own solution - a mathematical one I mean, it must have maths to be credible, garbled guesses don't count - not speaking to you here, specifically, just in anticipation of countless "well, I feel like X such and such completely unproven ergo probably we could build a traversable wormhole in the next 10-20 years" kind of vapid conjecture which can be found everywhere online).

...ahem, yeah without having looked up the maths that sounds about right, actually that's probably a rock bottom figure which only takes into account the mass of the wormhole itself, actually OPENING the thing in the first place is gonna be probably orders of magnitude higher. Sci-fi has spoiled us as far as our expectations on the feasibility of these things, we really are talking supermassive black hole or neutron-star scale energies IF it's ever going to be possible.

As far as an Alcubierre Warp taking less energy, do you feel like providing a source for those energetic estimates? No worries if not, I thought about looking it up myself but decided I just CBA because this is all so speculative. But anyway bear in mind - even if the energy requirements are comparable (no idea if they are or not but let's say for purposes of discussion, 1 wormhole requires roughly the energy of 1 warp bubble to manufacture) - the difference is that a wormhole is a stable structure (certain technological milestones assumed, of course, even "stable" wormholes may not actually be very stable at all and require constant dynamic stabilization). Once you've built it, you can use it multiple times. An Alcubierre Warp on the other hand needs to be built and dismantled literally every time you want to start, stop, change direction, change your speed, and this is assuming it's possible to overcome all the problems with turning the bubble "off" without annihilating yourself, your passengers, and everyone within 10 light years of your target destination with a supernova-type explosion that to an outside observer would appear to emanate from nowhere - which would surely make it a potent weapon, but that's another discussion...

A Warp Bubble is also a far more complex structure than a wormhole which for all it's fairly fantastical properties is actually not really that complicated - again, certain technological milestones being assumed here. So the energetic load of the finished product are likely to be dwarfed by the energy put in to building and stabilizing the thing in the first place, not to mention any dynamic stabilization requirements which - given that it's going to be moving through space and across gravitational gradients which will put extra strain on whatever magic is holding it together, the energy and technology required to keep it together is likely to exceed that required to keep a wormhole open which, even if it does require dynamic stabilization, at least doesn't actually require the wormhole mouths to move around very much, which after being set up can be left in a relatively "flat" region of space, or at least a gravitational environment that is not likely to change very much or very quickly, so the major concern is the instability inherent to this exotic structure rather than the shifting curvature of space induced by everything that a Warp would be moving past.

Of course, again, this is all so speculative that who really knows, if either of these things turn out to be possible then maybe some as-yet-undiscovered branch of physics will provide a reason why one makes more sense than the other but, based on what we know now, that would be my take on things.
 
Well, I was thinking about it and all I think it would take to fuel an Alcubierre drive is antihydrogen stored inside penning traps which could be used to charge the warp field.
 
😂 dude... see that's exactly what I was talking about when I said:
trying to come up with your own solution - a mathematical one I mean, it must have maths to be credible, garbled guesses don't count - not speaking to you here, specifically, just in anticipation of countless "well, I feel like X such and such completely unproven ergo probably we could build a traversable wormhole in the next 10-20 years" kind of vapid conjecture which can be found everywhere online).

I mean no offense but this is vapid conjecture, like why? How? This is just Star Trek pretend science gobbledegook.
Well, I was thinking about it and all I think it would take to fuel an Alcubierre drive is antihydrogen stored inside penning traps which could be used to charge the warp field.
 
😂 dude... see that's exactly what I was talking about when I said:


I mean no offense but this is vapid conjecture, like why? How? This is just Star Trek pretend science gobbledegook.
How is this "pretend science" ? Antihydrogen exists, penning traps exist. I think it's reasonable to try to build and engine that runs on this stuff.
 
To give people an idea of how powerful antihydrogen atoms are. When regular hydrogen atoms are split they release 1% of their energy, the rest of the energy fizzles out into neutrinos. But when antihydrogen atoms are split they release 100% of their energy. Which means you get an incredible about of power.
 
Read the book "Physics of the impossible". I think you'll find it really interesting. That's where I got some of my information from.
 
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