(SWEET VINDICATION) Why are they making anti-depressants that cause precipitated opi withdrawal "Lybalvi" and others? (I was right and you were wrong)

[smokeymcpot42088]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=snCnEHHdHd4 "Do not take lybalvi if you are taking opioids or are in opiate withdrawal; the Samidorphan in Lybalvi can cause severe opiate withdrawal that can lead to hospitalization or overdose" Side effects may include weight gain, which is interesting because when asked DIRECTLY WHY SAMIDORPHAN IS IN IT? They casually answer "to combat weight gain".... This reeks to me.

The title pretty much says it all but I guess since im typing... "Lybalvi" is the medication I am talking about; although I think there may be a couple more.... "Lybalvi" is comprised of Olanzapine COMBINED WITH A NALTREXONE ANALOG SAMIDORPHAN. Later in the thread I have a link to a case study of somebody going into precipitated, I don't have copy paste on this computer, sorry.. run a quick google. (wasn't so quick for me lol)




Do we think they may have ulterior motives for such a strange move? And was it even strange?

So now that it is established that I haven't lost my marbles... lets try a take two on this.

Why are they stuffing opioid antagonists into olanzapine and pushing it on the public? *EDIT X SO MANY* They claim to include the opiate antagonist samidorphan to combat weight gain as a side effect of olanzapine!?! TF, does this even make sense.



I will take the time to answer "Where do you draw the line between someone that needs them?" In my very subjective opinion; when there is a measurable neurological problem *Im not an MD or anything so I wont say, low dopamine, low seratonin, endorphins, etc and broaden it to measurable neurological problem. Other than that IMO we are moving towards using medication to blunt peoples behavior more than worrying about there well being. I.E. Antipsychotics being thrown at anyone that acts out. Of course there are mental conditions that require such medication but I feel we are moving away from "depression" into "mental disorders" and this should be done with the UTMOST care and only in cases it is absolutely necessary. (Real talk, does anyone know one person that seemed to be more mentally acute after a seroquel script?)
HERE IS HOW UNINFORMED DOCS IN THE US CAN BE. After over 20 yrs of being prescribed 3mg clonazepam per day for anxiety/insomnia; I kind of was hinting towards "after 20 years perhaps another clonazepam per day; as you know the effects of any medication dwindle after prolonged us?" His answer "I could put you on seroquil instead of clonazepam if you don't find it is working anymore.".... Sent chills up my spine.

Regarding depression in general.... I think anyone that sees straight and is intelligent knows the world is a very cruel shitshow and humanity is to blame. I think a little bit of depression is just realism?

as for who they determining if they work, I would say a self assessment about how you feel before taking the medication. Than the same form about 6 months to a yr. later..... than couple that information with questions to yourself; has this person been acting out more or less since the script was prescribed. Seems some people just become numb but continue to exhibit the same behaviors. I would take those people back off. I am only taking there brain cells and ability to weigh the consequences of their actions?

 

[aokorn]

About ten years ago, I was depressed. I have many years of experience with psychiatrists and I also take some medication in this field. As I said, ten years ago I found myself in an unenviable situation. I no longer dared to go to work unless I had had a beer first thing (in the morning). The problem for me was to say 'good day'. Things got complicated and I visited my psychiatrist. After a short interview, she sighed triumphantly: 'Andrei, you are depressed! She prescribed me duloxetine. When I went to work two days later, I was like a reborn, drugged. Everything seemed wonderful, I could work with ease.
Over the course of ten years, many things have changed, including my medicalisation. And three years later, my psychiatrist wanted to stop the antidepressant duloxetine, but I expressed my wish that she not do so. I was afraid that I would fall back into depression. So I kept on taking it. That happy feeling has, of course, disappeared over the years...
Well, about a year ago, I decided to stop the antidepressant. In the meantime, I had gained quite a few pounds and also diabetes. When I (self-initiated) discontinued this antidepressant, I lost 15kg in one month and my sugar settled down.
I want to say that the antidepressant helped me then, ten years ago, and now stopping it has helped me to cure myself of my physical ailments to a large extent....
In my opinion, antidepressants are a blessing and a curse at the same time...

 

[paltatomate]

In my opinion, antidepressants are a blessing and a curse at the same time...

That may very well be so.
Or in some cases they don't do anything at all.
Or in some cases they might make things worse. Which I'm not sure was in my case, I think to me they did nothing at all, unlike the antipsychotics I was prescribed when the antidepressants didn't work.

What I think is that psychiatrists (and others) prescribe antidepressants the moment someone comes into their practice. They don't care to listen to you, or even try to determine what might be the cause for your feeling down. Even if you tell them that you are dealing with a specific problem that will be solved, but until you needed to talk to *therapist* who then referred you directly to the *psychiatrist* for an antidepressant prescription.

I think if someone has an actual serotonin problem, then antidepressants might work.
But in most cases the reason for their feeling depressed is just their current situation (in which case antidepressants do nothing) or something completely different (in which case they can be harmful).

The thing here is that antidepressants had such a hype, that a certain placebo effect is natural for those who everything a doctor tells them. Then there's also overexpectation regarding what they might do (like change your life overnight without having to do anything). So where do you draw the line between who really needs them, or for who they worked?

 

[aokorn]

So where do you draw the line between who really needs them, or for who they worked?

I will act as if this is a question for me.
If you have read my contribution carefully, you will probably have realised that the antidepressant has helped me a lot. And it really did. But over time it started to harm me (especially physically). Because, after all, an antidepressant is a chemical that has certain effects on the metabolism in the human body. I wrote that I had stopped taking it. It is true. This is not the psychiatrist's fault, but my realisation that the time was ripe to stop taking the antidepressant.

It is true what you say that psychiatrists should be more involved with patients. However, this is only a theory. Similarly, it is only a theory that politicians will only act in the interests of all citizens. However, I would not equate psychiatrists with politicians. But there are too few psychiatrists and more and more patients. And a patient brings a complex story, each of which requires a whole person - a psychiatrist - a friend.

So the boundaries are very blurred.

 

[Jen X]

I've never heard of anyone getting precipitated withdrawals from antidepressants

 

[negrogesic]

Precipitated withdrawals from what? Suboxone?

In short no.

 

[aokorn]

In my case, I did not have any withdrawal syndromes (Duloxetin).
After about ten years of taking.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I've never heard of anyone getting precipitated withdrawals from antidepressants

You must either not watch TV or not be in America (good for you either way) but they are constantly running commercials for "additional" anti-depressants in conjuction with your normal SSRI or W/E and they VERY CLEARLY on these commercials state that if you take opioids you have a distinct risk of precipitated withdrawl; even overdose. I will cite the drugs in particular gimme a min to google.

*edit* I don't think I mentioned these are additional in conjunction with an anti-depressant. Lemme get me some sources.

Negrogesic - nah i dont mean sub at all ya nut; im not that stupid.

Shoot they seem to have buried this ish on google. I may have to wait till they shove one of the commercials in my face again before I can name a chemical......But I am telling you I will be either a. vindicated or b. directly misled by a commercial.

IM STILL WAITING AND GOOGLING AS DOES A PERSON WHO IS WRONG BUT CONVINCED.

 

[Jen X]

Ya I watch TV but not in the USA. Just never heard of anyone getting withdrawals from opioids for taking an antidepressant.
Some antidepressants actually increase the dose of opioids but never heard of them causing wd's

 

[Jen X]

Can't find anything on Google about it either

 

[negrogesic]

You must either not watch TV or not be in America (good for you either way) but they are constantly running commercials for "additional" anti-depressants in conjuction with your normal SSRI or W/E and they VERY CLEARLY on these commercials state that if you take opioids you have a distinct risk of precipitated withdrawl; even overdose. I will cite the drugs in particular gimme a min to google.

You'll be googling forever because no such thing exists, nor does any commercial (because, again, the interaction doesn't make sense -- antidepressants don't cause precipitated withdrawal).

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

you might be right (when are you not *grumbles to self* lol ) and I will have to eat crow until I see said commercial again.

I do not take the term precipitated withdrawal lightly though...... I currently have no leg to stand on and did do a bit of googling so I suppose if I were a betting man I wouldn't be betting on myself either..... That said when/if I see said commercial again I will check back. I coulda sworn....

Yea if noone else has heard about it I guess it isn't a thing. Damn lol I wasn't alone when I saw these commercials the other folks were kinda freaked too... Im thinkin maybe we popped off reacting before a sentence was finished or something? Perhaps I finally lost my mind.

I concede, at least for now. Probably forever.

*edit* Jen X, I meant no offense by the america thing. We are like one of the only countries pharm countries are allowed to advertise directly to the public; I also had the false belief that everyone had probably seen these commercials and it would be on a few peoples minds. (I remember the old oxycontin commercials, "Oxycontin ask your doctor for it by name" pretty wild ish)

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Libvaldi, buprion and naltrexone, and weigh loss compounds.

*edit* the tienapine interaction didn't make since to me either negrogesic, thats why premise two jumped out. "are they just shoving antagonists in antidepressants?"..... I am sorry for all this. For now at least. *DAMN brain still believes itself.

 

[negrogesic]

Maybe you were stoned and mixed bits of information together.

The closest I could imagine to what you're saying is maybe Low Dose Naltrexone, which isn't really marketed as an antidepressant, but might have some antidepressant effects and could precipitate withdrawal.

This is how it's marketed: https://get.agelessrx.com/ldn-low-d...UatWvOMIp3CjrolextS67vNds_yH0ns0aAnSKEALw_wcB

But I don't think low dose naltrexone is ever marketed on TV due to the hot water it could get them in with the FDA for marketing naltrexone for off-label, non-FDA approved purposes.

 

[JackARoe]

I saw a commercial many times of a medication with olanzapine mixed with something else and the big warning on side effects is may cause precip withdrawal in opioid dependent patients. Hey, some of these commercials fascinate me in how much they are after the dollar so I watch amused.

Next time I see it I can post the med. I do not know if it is an antidepressant or antipsychotic. But the theme of the commercial is "push back". (yeah ok no thanks!)

 

[PtahTek]

they are constantly running commercials for "additional" anti-depressants in conjuction with your normal SSRI or W/E

This is true. I have seen it many times and it boggles my brain that ya may need a kick start to get yer antidepressants going. What the heck is that about...?
These pharma ads kill me with the "ask your doctor if * is right for you" add ons.
Time and place, I suppose.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Lybalvi is the name of the medication and it is indeed Olanzapine combined with a Naltrexone analog and opiate ANTAGONIST Samidorphan!
(you one helpful dude jackaroe!)

I really don't like that they advertise meds in the US. I don't know what the deal with this is... "have we tricked you once and got you addicted to a medication that didn't fix your 'depression'? Wanna go once more double or nothing? Side effects include death (hyperbole, but not always)

If death occurs; THAT IS THE MAIN EFFECT. Alleviated depression would be the side effect imo....

negrogesic -- I don't think Tianeptine (sp) is advertised in the US; as it is not approved for use in the the US.... That was the only thing that I could find that even remotely fit the bill after googling. So the chance that tianeptine was the commercial must be slim to zero.

I got mandela affected; because surely a universe shift is more likely than me seeing the commercial wrong ... Olanzapine hey? Thank you!

I think you nailed it jackaroe.
New level unlocked; an actual source, well a case study at least. (read it before you dismiss it)
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38556414/

"Samidorphan is an analog of naltrexone." "Olanzapine/Samidorphan or "Lybalvi" is for treatment of schizophrenia / bi-polar 1.

I only have the abstract but I am pretty sure..... I told you guys so. The commercial just suggests it as an additional antidepressant. Time to edit the title... muahahahaha.

*Im gunna be kickin myself if im wrong but im pretty sure I got this one* I'll try and find the commercial, a youtube link would be fair to link?

 

[Fire&Water]

If you watch commercials to be edumacated ...

ermmmmm

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

you got time to click the youtube link smartass? Lybalvi is Olanzapine combined with Samidorphan a naltrexone analog and opiate agonist being marketed to the US through commercials for bi-polar. There is a link to the commercial in the original pos, I would hate for you to waste your braincells on the boobtoob....

You are missing my larger point still. Why would they put an opiate antagonist into olanzapine? I don't think it is to reduce weight gain. Does this make any sense? Why would they be advertising so aggressively on televison (not the smartest demographic I suppose)

About being educated, I don't think alot of people in the US could accurately draw the line between light bi polar and heavy depression.

thanks for piling on another wrong opinion (and cmon precip is a serious thing; do the reading).....and na na got you negrogesic. Ya'll thought I was nuts; almost had me convinced for 12 hours or so.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Maybe you were stoned and mixed bits of information together.

The closest I could imagine to what you're saying is maybe Low Dose Naltrexone, which isn't really marketed as an antidepressant, but might have some antidepressant effects and could precipitate withdrawal.

This is how it's marketed: https://get.agelessrx.com/ldn-low-dose-naltrexone/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=low dose naltrexone&utm_campaign=15287421278&utm_content=535108897359&utm_device=m&matchtype=b&network=g&utm_campaignname=LDN_Purchase_BAM__Recommendations_Trial&gclid=Cj0KCQjwir2xBhC_ARIsAMTXk84F96q0KWV8XG2KaTvfwd3UatWvOMIp3CjrolextS67vNds_yH0ns0aAnSKEALw_wcB

But I don't think low dose naltrexone is ever marketed on TV due to the hot water it could get them in with the FDA for marketing naltrexone for off-label, non-FDA approved purposes.

Apparently a naltrexone analog has "slipped" *my ass* past them. There is now a link to a youtube of the commercial in the first pot. Lybvaldi is the name of the drug; they absolutely are advertising it and definitely mention that Samidorphan (the naltrexone analog they are inexplicably combining with olanzapine) will send your ass into precipitated withdrawals.

This IS VERY REAL. *for those not keeping score, negrogesic has a damn near impeccable record of being correct; an admirable amount of correctness; certainly much more so than I.