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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Israel is under attack

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KKK, neo Nazis, racists, etc weren't that fringe in the 40s, 50s, and 60s.

but whatever.

The tide has turned big time in the wake of the holocaust. That's my point. I thought it was obvious and i still think you're just nitpicking.

KKK and neo nazis have never been mainstream since WW2.
 
next couple days shit could really take off.

Israel is a genius.

They finally put the iranis in a hard spot.

If iran does not directly strike irsael it proves the mullahs are a bunch of pussies who only get others to do their bidding.

and if iran throws everything at israel. The jews are then justifed to finally eradicate all of mullahs and their proxies once and for all and even allowing for the plausible use of irsaeli nukes
 
The tide has turned big time in the wake of the holocaust. That's my point.
Has it really though, beyond the surface level? Or is it more a case of political correctness?

You had a lot of left leaning people in the 60's looking for an explanation and who subsequently never expanded/grew out of the Jew explanation e.g. Jeremy Corbyn and Roger Waters. The resurgence in recent times is not just confined to the Muslim crowd either, who obviously side with their Muslim cohort regardless. Even the cartoon SouthPark has the long running Cartman vs Kyle thing.

I think people are reaching for it once again, because it's a well worn psychological groove and it's easy to point to Jewish people in positions of influence relative to their demographic size and draw the (false) conclusion that they are running things.

Also, and this is my conspiracy belief, but I think ultimately Israel is being setup to be destroyed, that America principally will turn away from protecting them (along with the West), when it comes to light they played a role in 9/11. And this will work because of the aforementioned psychological groove, people will just say 'fuck em' and it will be over in the a flash.
 
Has it really though, beyond the surface level? Or is it more a case of political correctness?

You had a lot of left leaning people in the 60's looking for an explanation and who subsequently never expanded/grew out of the Jew explanation e.g. Jeremy Corbyn and Roger Waters. The resurgence in recent times is not just confined to the Muslim crowd either, who obviously side with their Muslim cohort regardless. Even the cartoon SouthPark has the long running Cartman vs Kyle thing.

I think people are reaching for it once again, because it's a well worn psychological groove and it's easy to point to Jewish people in positions of influence relative to their demographic size and draw the (false) conclusion that they are running things.

Also, and this is my conspiracy belief, but I think ultimately Israel is being setup to be destroyed, that America principally will turn away from protecting them (along with the West), when it comes to light they played a role in 9/11. And this will work because of the aforementioned psychological groove, people will just say 'fuck em' and it will be over in the a flash.

People might be reaching for it again, yes. I'm agnostic about that and i'm not saying anything to the contrary. What i said was that re-creating Israel was a bad move. You didn't respond to my response to your response. No hard feelings.
 
People might be reaching for it again, yes. I'm agnostic about that and i'm not saying anything to the contrary. What i said was that re-creating Israel was a bad move. You didn't respond to my response to your response. No hard feelings.
Sorry I missed your response to response - this thread is like a god damn Clapham Junction.

I think most people agree that creating Israel in the first place was a bad idea, and again being the tin-foiler that I am I will go one step further and say they always knew what would happen, and what would be the inevitable outcome (destruction). When I say 'they' I'm referring to powers above the Zionist lobby of the 19th century i.e. the British and Rome.

Almost half the worlds Jew's live in Israel. Surrounded by nations that hate their guts, and the sea on one side. Hard for me to not see that as being boxed in, and a terminal situation. Sprinkle in a few undisclosed nuclear weapons, on both sides of the border, and it doesn't look rosy.
 
There is no genocide of Palestinians.
there are genocidal actions (done by israel), as defined by the geneva genocide convention. plain as day, if you ever decide to read the succinct and clear (pithy?) language of the convention.
 
there are genocidal actions (done by israel), as defined by the geneva genocide convention. plain as day, if you ever decide to read the succinct and clear (pithy?) language of the convention.
It's actually rather vague in my opinion.

But in any case, per the definition, Oct 7th and Hamas' entire manifesto is genocidal.

it also implies that almost every war that has ever been fought throughout all time are instances of genocide.
 
it also implies that almost every war that has ever been fought throughout all time are instances of genocide
i mean, many were... but no, there's a reason we codified things that are "war crimes" to never be acceptable in war; war doesn't equal war crimes.

in what ways is it vague? they deliberated and came up with it and signed it... and must abide by it. vague or not, israel is definitionally guilty of war crimes, including genocidal actions.
 
Every country has commited war crimes.
so that's a reason to let israel get away with their blatant and numerous war crimes?

"driving is driving... most drivers speed" is an argument to let the drunk driving, 110mph through a school zone backwards and blindfolded chud get away without so much as a fine?
 
there are genocidal actions (done by israel), as defined by the geneva genocide convention. plain as day, if you ever decide to read the succinct and clear (pithy?) language of the convention.
I think you're mistaking the focus Israel have on destroying Hamas for intentionally killing civilians. Israel are not trying to genocide anyone- 35,000 deaths in 6 months of combat in incredibly built up urban area is actually ridiculously low compared to many other comparable conflict, and utterly at odds with actually genuine historical genocides. Look at Rwanda- 800,000 killed in 3 months, and they mainly used machetes and small arms. The reality is that Israel are more focused on killing Hamas, getting their hostages back, and re-establishing security for its citizens than it is on protecting Palestinian civilians. This may seem callous, and perhaps is, but it's still not genocide.

No credible charges of genocide have been really genuinely made against Israel. Kids yelling about it on tiktok arent worth a pubic hair. The claims made by South Africa to the ICJ are almost entirely strategic, and based on their close ties to Iran. Genocide is not the inadvertent killing of civlians, or even the intentional killing of civlians as "collateral damage". Genocide is intentional. The US killed hundreds of thousands of Japaense during ww2, and none of it was genocidal. Intentions matter. I don't think you can find an action of Israel in this conflict that is not better explained as focus on destroying Hamas than as ethnic cleansing/Genocide. But please try- give me some examples where Israel are killing Palestinians as an end in itself, and as a clearly enunciated strategy from the military.
 
Sorry I missed your response to response - this thread is like a god damn Clapham Junction.

I think most people agree that creating Israel in the first place was a bad idea, and again being the tin-foiler that I am I will go one step further and say they always knew what would happen, and what would be the inevitable outcome (destruction). When I say 'they' I'm referring to powers above the Zionist lobby of the 19th century i.e. the British and Rome.

Almost half the worlds Jew's live in Israel. Surrounded by nations that hate their guts, and the sea on one side. Hard for me to not see that as being boxed in, and a terminal situation. Sprinkle in a few undisclosed nuclear weapons, on both sides of the border, and it doesn't look rosy.

It seems we're mostly in agreement then. I wasn't under the impression that most people agree on Israel being a mistake. Good thing if so.

About the genocide talk: I think it's a simplistic and impotent analysis that's gained traction due to reliance on emotional buzzwords. Israel is deserving of criticism, and any war is really close to genocide in terms of human disaster, but genocide doesn't seem to be exactly what's going on in a broader sense and also this frame doesn't really add information beyond the emotional.
 
Honestly, I think the genocide claims come from a few places. One is the way that the Jews are often associated with whatever society and culture currently finds reprehensible- from being evil capitalists, to communists, to child sacrificing monsters- antisemitism is the prejudice that can encompass anything. We find genocide and bigotry and nazism deplorable- and what a shock, the Jews are "doing it" too. They're always somehow the worst thing we can imagine.

The west also holds some guilt for its utter disinterest during the Holocaust. Are we bad because we allowed a genocide to happen? But- well, they're doing it to. They're like us, they're no better, the moral capital they gained and the guilt we could feel, forget about it.

And lastly, what better way to wound people who experienced the worst genocide seen in history. To call those victims of nazi hatred nazis themselves- that hurts, just as it's meant to.

When the west take to the streets because of the Jews but ignored Dafur, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran- you know that there is a reason and, despite the protestations of people in this thread about their impartiality and moral righteousness, that reason isn't because Israel are worse than the aforementioned- it's just humanities most long standing prejudice re-emerging. I promise you, the bigots who conducted the pogroms of eastern Europe didn't think they were antisemites, they thought the Jews were evil.
 
About the genocide talk: I think it's a simplistic and impotent analysis that's gained traction due to reliance on emotional buzzwords. Israel is deserving of criticism, and any war is really close to genocide in terms of human disaster, but genocide doesn't seem to be exactly what's going on in a broader sense and also this frame doesn't really add information beyond the emotional.
Yeah the genocide talk doesn't fly with me. Being brutally honest, I couldn't give a fuck anymore;

Some will say it's not fair to lump people together and generalize them, but I say fuck that I'm entitled to my opinion, and my opinion is I simply do not trust the Muslim community because they have demonstrated in my own country what a backwards bunch they become when they congregate and refuse to integrate - no other incoming foreign group is as obnoxious as they are. They take the piss and cry wolf, and people were warning about this for years and got derided for it.. and only now is starting to become mildly acceptable to even broach the topic.. after literally years of continuing bullshit, oh and the ongoing mass rape of young white girls.

Some 'asian man' literally stabbed a young mother to death, stabbing her in the neck, in broad daylight, the other day. It's been in the news this week as they tried to find this guy. There was another one in London like that fairly recently as well. It is starting to become commonplace, when that kind of barbarity was relegated to the occasional psychopathic mass murderer type.

And this isn't just isolated to the UK. Everyone in Europe understands now.

Yes, Israel deserves criticism and should be watched like a hawk given it wants to have the title of being a first-world country that adheres to first-world standards, and the same goes for the UK. I'm happy to be brutally honest about both, as anyone here already knows, but the same logic also extends to everyone.. no one should be beyond criticism. And from where I stand the Muslim community as a whole simply has not earned the right/no longer has the legitimacy to cry wolf and demand my emotional support anymore. They fucked it up, collectively.

Like I just don't care anymore. I know if given the demographic chance they'll turn my country inside out, I know they fucking will. There's enough of them who openly state they'll do that, and too many willing followers who won't oppose it. So why the fuck would I care about some appeal to emotion when you're going to stab me in the back the first chance you get?

Your guys literally raided and raped completely innocent people on the 7th, and you want to cry wolf now that you're getting fucked into the dirt by a superior military power? And continuing to refuse to give back hostages (war crime), and not even come to the table for serious negotiations? And all on the back of being one of the greatest recipients of aid money on the planet, spunking it up the wall on weaponry and tunnels instead of your own people?

Sorry, but I'm all out of fucks to give quite frankly. There's other people suffering on this planet under equally foul and even greater despotic conditions who I'd rather hear about to be honest.

/ end rant
 
It was so dumb for the jews to put their country there amidst their muslim desert enemies. All for archaic religious reasons. They were super accepted in Europe and America after WW2.
Don't forget that the Holocaust didn't just happen in Germany- pretty much the entire continent got involved and not always under duress from the Nazis. Also, much of their property had been taken. Plus this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielce_pogrom Jews were still being killed.

It's not surprising that many didn't feel welcome in Europe and decided to emigrate to Israel after the Holocaust.
 
Don't forget that the Holocaust didn't just happen in Germany- pretty much the entire continent got involved and not always under duress from the Nazis. Also, much of their property had been taken.
Just to piggyback on this, while I agree it was kind of stupid to want to put your roost literally within a circle of fox dens.. the greater point is why should they even feel the need to do this in the first place? Surely the real problem is with everyone falling victim to the scapegoating of Jews, continually, over centuries whenever it became convenient to do so.

Let's not forget that the 'Jew's control the money' is literally because Christian societies (specifically RC Church meddling) didn't want Jewish integration as they saw it is competition, except when it came to the convenience of allowing Jews to do what they believed was the dirty work (usury) in financial matters.

It's like yes, there's a lack of self-awareness about the dangers of the Israel project.. but there's also a complete lack of self-awareness amongst us (Europeans) in regards to our own collective psychology, and our role in all of this madness. I mean even in the UK, right now, we've literally allowed a sizeable Muslim demographic to establish itself who fervently despise Jewish people.. you begin to understand why they would want to move away to their own place.

Fuck, I'd want to move away to my own country of free thinking free spirited people if one existed. I'm not Jewish but after the past couple of years I have zero faith that family, friends, and neighbours wouldn't turn on me given the correct circumstances. The majority of people in the West are absolutely demented, psychologically speaking.
 
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