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georgia 2020 election interference investigation

His family should have stopped him from becoming president.

You know, it was only last week that I sat down and really read the details of Donald Trumps upbringing and life.

Apparently his father decided Donald should go into politics. Purely for financial reasons, obviously, but his father was the catalyst. But by all accounts Donald was repeatedly humiliated by his father and more or less reminded that his entire success was due to his fathers actions over decades. Donald's elder brother ignored their father and became an airline captain until, sadly, he developed addiction to alcohol and ended up as a handyman in the Trump organization. So Donald always had his brother held up as a 'f*ckup' and failure by their father (and why Donald was the 'fortunate son').

So I can totally understand how that kind of environment will produce someone who displays all twelve cardinal symptoms of psychopathy.

I think it's worth noting that the Goldwater Ruling may well be appropriate in cases where someone displays symptoms of mental illness but if one seeks to understand someone with a personality disorder, watching their behaviors 'in the wild' i.e. how they behave in normal environments is of far more value than clinical interviews.

I am always reminded of that scene in Blade Runner (or the scenes in the book 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep') in which it is explained that 'real' human beings have 'real' emotions whereas software can only estimate responses. So it's the 'shallow effect' that is being tested and applied as a recognition tool.

I was always impressed the PKD took the time to learn about psychopathy and apply that learning within his writing.
 
Judge rejects Trump’s First Amendment challenge to indictment in Georgia election case

"ATLANTA (AP) — The judge overseeing the Georgia election interference case against Donald Trump and others rejected on Thursday arguments by the former president that the indictment seeks to criminalize political speech protected by the First Amendment.

The indictment issued in August by a Fulton County grand jury accused Trump and 18 others of participating in a wide-ranging scheme to illegally try to overturn the 2020 presidential election in Georgia after the Republican incumbent narrowly lost the state to Democrat Joe Biden. Trump’s attorneys argued that all the charges against him involved political speech that is protected even if the speech ends up being false.

But Fulton County Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee wrote that at this pretrial stage he must consider the language of the indictment in a light favorable to the prosecution. The charges do not suggest that Trump and the others are being prosecuted simply for making false statements but rather that they acted willfully and knowingly to harm the government, he wrote.
" (my emphasis)

alasdair
 
Apologies, as I'm only getting to this thread now. Like the others, I go back about 3 pages and read forward from there (necessary for the really long threads). As such, some of these quotes may be pretty dusty having occurred as far back as January of this year.


prosecution asked to start early august so it seems very unlikely.

in all current cases, the trump defense strategy is delay, delay, delay.

can't imagine for one second why trump is not jonesing to get in to court to vigorously defend his innocence.


Prosecution asks August...with elections in November? Did they really think this would be a quick slam dunk? Two other points on the timing by the prosecution. This happened in 2016, why the long wait to bring charges? Second, for an election year, aside from the actual election only 3 months after their requested start, any POTUS candidates would normally be campaigning from at least spring, with primaries in March and candidates truly gearing up for the big run starting in ...July. A month ahead of the requested court dates. Do you honestly believe there is no political motivations to having your opponent a) charged with election interference, b) called into court for multiple days during key campaign time, and c) draining his funds* during that critical period? Go back to the earlier question - why not bring this up earlier if it occurred in 2016?

As to his team's tactic of delays - trade places and ask what strategy you and your team would utilize? Delays will keep the candidate's name in the headlines, which appears to be strengthening his polling numbers, and also keeps him out of the court room and out to do campaigning. It's the right strategy given the way the democrats are charging him.

But Fulton County Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee wrote that at this pretrial stage he must consider the language of the indictment in a light favorable to the prosecution. The charges do not suggest that Trump and the others are being prosecuted simply for making false statements but rather that they acted willfully and knowingly to harm the government, he wrote." (my emphasis)

A few points I'd like to pivot off of here:
  • Fani has purjured herself. This is recorded fact. << Not relevant to THIS case.
  • She has acted unethically (ahead of the perjury) in her selection of boyfriend/special procecutor - not relevant to THIS case, but not a good look and a notable hit to credibility
  • Judge McAfee is in his first year on the bench, having worked earlier under Fani Willis as well as for Brian Kemp (Republican, GA Governer - but arguably a RINO by GA residents). This was thrown up by Trump's team as 'working for his old boss, Fani' and being impartial given Fani-McAfee would have a history and a future of working together in the GA legal system. I agree, McAfee has shown he doesn't carry bias in this regard.
  • Determined in the Willis-Wade situation that one of the prosecutors had to leave, which is akin to catching two theives in your house and saying one is getting arrested while the other can go free.
  • In regards to Willis' perjury or other possible grounds for discipline or disbarment - that's not his call. GA Senate controls that investigation, and they are building it. Regardless of this court decision, Willis may have ended her own career.
At the end of the day, I think Trump benefits from Willis being left on the case. She embarassed herself personally and professionally when challenged on boyfriend/prosecutor and her insistence in believing she did nothing wrong. That hurts her credibility, and shows her professional faults. It gives him more fodder for blabbing at cameras about how unfair everything is, but the benefit for his defense is that a less competent prosecutor remains lead as opposed to being replaced by someone who knows what they are doing.

To @jasperkent 's point about nohting changing the facts of the case...yeah, this, very much this.

Aside from NOT raising this earlier, there remains the question of did he actually do something wrong. I'm hesitant to get into that too much, because I think everyone already has their mind fairly well set on if he did or didn't. If I try to step back and look at it neutraly...the statement I think was akin to "find me the needed votes", correct? Not a smooth move, but not a demand (Trump had no authority over the GA elections team) nor any threat (what threat could he level?). I see it as an ask, as any candidate would do when believing there are more uncounted votes in their favor. People will take it as they choose. Knowing Trump's blowhard personality, one that operates from expectations and a sense of grandeur, I can see this as more of the same but not necessarily interfering in anything, just asking election officials to do their job because he believes it is not complete.



*I know this is a particular point for @alasdairm - the use of campaign funds to defend the candidate, and is he being dishonest to Repub donors? I was leaning towards yes it is wrong on his part. But as I understand it he used his own funds until he won the nomination, then after (with his DIL co-chairing the RNC) I can abide as those funds are to get the R candidate into office, and anyone donating after that nomination would know that's what's happening. Those who donated before were contributing to 'whomever the candidate will be, whatever is needed to get him into office'...so I can give some leeway there as well. Do I like any of it? No. There's lots about Trump not to like. Do I see where it makes sense to get the R candidate into the white house? Yes.
 
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I watch Law and Order. Jack and Clair had a relationship and it did not affect any trials.

:ROFLMAO:

i think one person I dislike more than trump is Merrick Garland. He is the quintessential snowflake thrown at liberals. He should have hit this hard to first year. Go back to teaching kindergarden Garland!! Get rid of him.

There will be a special place in hell for this fella. So many ways he has abused and misused his office with selective prosecution it is absurd. Hell, we could have another thread just on how he has run the DOJ and what's been right or wrong about it.
 
If I try to step back and look at it neutraly...the statement I think was akin to "find me the needed votes", correct? Not a smooth move, but not a demand (Trump had no authority over the GA elections team) nor any threat (what threat could he level?). I see it as an ask, as any candidate would do when believing there are more uncounted votes in their favor.

trump had no authority indeed. so what is the difference between a demand and an ask in that case?

if he just wanted all the votes counted fairly and accurately, why would he ask them to "find" him votes? why wouldn't he say "please continue to count all the votes until they're all counted" or such? why would he ask of them to find a specific number of votes which just happened to be 1 more than his deficit at the time?

"So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state."

"So what are we going to do here folks? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break."

"So tell me, Brad, what are we going to do? We won the election and it’s not fair to take it away from us like this."

the counting wasn't even finished, as you noted, and yet he claims the state was taken from him?

"...the people of Georgia know that this was a scam. And because of what you’ve done to the president, a lot of people aren’t going out to vote and a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative because they hate what you did to the president. Okay? They hate it. And they’re going to vote. And you would be respected. Really respected, if this thing could be straightened out before the election. You have a big election coming up on Tuesday. And therefore I think that it is really important that you meet tomorrow and work out on these numbers. Because I know Brad that if you think we’re right, I think you’re going to say, and I’m not looking to blame anybody. I’m just saying you know, and, you know, under new counts, and under uh, new views, of the election results, we won the election."

"And the real truth is I won by 400,000 votes. At least. That’s the real truth."

but the count wasn't finished. he was asking them to just finish counting? if the count was not finished how can he have already won by 400k votes? that's about 8% of the total number of votes cast.

the state of georgia recounted its ballots three times and the result did not change. his claim that he won the state by 400k votes is just pie-in-the-sky, fabricated nonsense.

i reread the transcript today. i don't see* how anybody can believe that trump was just calling to ask them to make sure all the votes were counted fairly and accurately.

People will take it as they choose.

for the most part, agreed.

alasdair

* yes, i know :)
 
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