Israel is under attack

[Pissed_and_messed]

DeficiT definitely did not say any of that, you are making a HUGE stretch

 

[Rachrach]

Ok so how does this let the IDF off the hook for knowingly bombing women and children?

These are all war crimes.

Wow! I am jealous about your infallible psychic powers! You actually know what not one, but a number of soldiers, were thinking as they fired their weapons. Forgive me for coming off to you as rude but you are as clueless as the next person as to the forethought of even 1 IDF soldier, let alone a quarter of a million.

Before using the label "War Crimes," do some objective research. You need to prove that even 1 IDF committed just 1 War Crime.

 

[deficiT]

Wow! I am jealous about your infallible psychic powers! You actually know what not one, but a number of soldiers, were thinking as they fired their weapons. Forgive me for coming off to you as rude but you are as clueless as the next person as to the forethought of even 1 IDF soldier, let alone a quarter of a million.

Before using the label "War Crimes," do some objective research. You need to prove that even 1 IDF committed just 1 War Crime.

Did I say I knew what anyone was thinking? Did I say everyone was guilty? Literally just Google "Israel war crimes". The proof is everywhere.

so you don't understand the moral difference between terrorists purposely seeking out women and children to rape and murder vs. a military responding to that attack and unintentionally killing women and children after they spent weeks evacuating as many as they could?

under your definition of war crime any action taken by any military for any reason that results in the death of a woman or child is a war crime ?

All im saying is that it's all whack. Again, read above.

Everyone in this thread is honestly being self righteous and annoying AF. If just talking about this brings this kind of shit out of people that are either not directly involved, or not directly involved anymore, it gives me little hope for actually resolving the conflict. Peace.

 

[mal3volent]

All im saying is that it's all whack. Again, read above.

Everyone in this thread is honestly being self righteous and annoying AF. If just talking about this brings this kind of shit out of people that are either not directly involved, or not directly involved anymore, it gives me little hope for actually resolving the conflict. Peace.

I never intended anything other than peace. But I mean, this is CEP so disagreements on heavy topics are going to happen quite often. You seemed to be suggesting that the killing of civilians by Israel and Hamas were morally equivalent?

Yes, it's all whack. But they are two very different degrees of whack imo.

 

[nepalnt21]

You need to prove that even 1 IDF committed just 1 War Crime.

or do your own homework, cause this isn't even a debated topic (except by those that lie and/ or are uninformed)

lines of research: targeted killing of the press, 2k pound bombs, collective punishment while condeming the civilian population, targeting aid trucks and unrwa (c0iNCidenTALly right when the icj told israel they need to make an effort in getting aid to gazans)

 

[deficiT]

I never intended anything other than peace. But I mean, this is CEP so disagreements on heavy topics are going to happen quite often. You seemed to be suggesting that the killing of civilians by Israel and Hamas were morally equivalent?

Yes, it's all whack. But they are two very different degrees of whack imo.

Yeah sorry, not trying to be a dick. It is cep so yeah I'll just not participate.

 

[swilow]

cause this isn't even a debated topic (except by those that lie and/ or are uninformed)

This line of argument is just so fucking terrible. Your opponents are either ignorant fools or dishonest cretins.

I at least do you the courtesy of imagining you are simply badly informed and moreso, plainly incorrect.

targeting aid trucks

You know who also does this?

unrwa

Do you honestly believe that any huge organisation with 13000 aid workers in GAZA is not entirely subjugated to the terrorist thugs who run the entire strip? UNRWA workers literally participated in the October 7th massacres.

Almost all the concerns you express could be resolved by actions from Hamas themselves and yet, you only expect humanitarian behaviour from Israel. If they are genocidal monsters and Hamas are "more moral", why is that?

 

[Rachrach]

Did I say I knew what anyone was thinking? Did I say everyone was guilty? Literally just Google "Israel war crimes". The proof is everywhere.


All im saying is that it's all whack. Again, read above.

Everyone in this thread is honestly being self righteous and annoying AF. If just talking about this brings this kind of shit out of people that are either not directly involved, or not directly involved anymore, it gives me little hope for actually resolving the conflict. Peace.

Have you seen the treatment of Palestinians over the last several decades by Israel? No wonder there's some radicals. There's just as many Israelis cheering on the destruction of Palestinians. It's fucked up, I'm just not sure how anyone can be like "yeah these guys are the good guys" here.

I wish there could be peace. That's it. A lot to ask for but it's fucked up, and people are radicalized by propaganda and terror their entire lives and they get fucked up and do fucked up shit. Not really an excuse for anything, just an explanation.

I have not seen any executions, no. I honestly haven't delved into this topic beyond what's said on the TV, and to me it just rings as more fear and war mongering by a puppet state of the United States. The Palestinians should have their own state and government, and not be ruled over and mistreated by a separate entity... That's always been true and that hasn't changed.

Terrorism has 2 main causes:

1) Lack of access to a personally invested Democratic system.

2) Religious extremism.

These 2 precursors are definitely present with Palestinians. It has zero to do with anything that Israel has done or not done...Palestinians' organised campaign of terrorism predates Israel's very existence & in fact predates the existence of Palestinians themselves. It started on March 3rd, 1920 in Jerusalem with the All Syria Pogrom.

The future Grand Mufti al Amin al Husseini, his uncle, the Mayor of Jerusalem Musa al Husseini & their mutual friend, future Governor of Be'er Sheva District, 'Atef al 'Atef decided to slaughter Jews. This was nothing new. Arabs have been doing so in Genocidal attacks ever since the founder of Islam, Muhammad ibn 'Abdullah ibn 'Abd al Muttalib Sheimi al Hashimi al Qureish decided to turn on his Jewish benefactors in al Yathrib in 627 CE.

Muhammad's own tribe, al Qureish, tried to murder him & al 'Ummah (the Muslim community). It was the Jewish city of al Yathrib that offered him asylum, along with his followers in 622 CE. Muhammad repaid them by exterminating the men of 2 of the 3 Jewish clans who controlled al Yathrib. Their women & children were all enslaved though Muhammad later married one Jewish sex slave. The third Jewish clan fared slightly better, the Banu Nadir, who were Ethnically Cleansed though Muhammad would attack the Jewish city where they settled, al Khaybar.

In 634 CE, the Rashidun, the Islamic horde, invaded the Jewish homeland. Between 634 CE & 1920 there were literally countless Genocidal outbursts against the Jews. We managed to retain a majority in Jerusalem, Upper Galilee (which included Southern Lebanon north to Sidon) & Golan until the 18th & 19th Centuries with Golan being our last bastion until the 1830s (Jerusalem has always had a solid Jewish majority outside of the Aelia Capitolina & Crusader Era when racist bans Ethnically Cleansed us).

March 3rd, 1920 was a watershed because it was the first occasion where local Arabs murdered us for nationalist reasons, as opposed to the Dhimmitude of Islam. Ironically, local Arabs did not see themselves as a unique group (i.e. "Palestinians") but as Syrians. Only in 1964 was there a consensus amongst them that they were a unique group. There had been elements in the 1950s but they were a distinct minority.

So, Palestinians do not murder Jews out of maltreatment BY Jews. They do so out of abject Anti Semitism. Try reading the Unabridged HAMAS Charter.

As for your advice that I simply Google "Israel & War Crimes," uh, no. Do you understand that search engine results are not facts? All they are is an indexing of claims. My suggestion to you & all others is to vet such claims. Objectively examine such claims and factually research both the claim & its source.

As for you saying that "it's all whack," hahaha, yeah, as I have stated, war sucks. If Gazans had not illegaly infiltrated Israel to rape & murder THIS war would not exist.

"Everybody in this thread is being self righteous & annoying as fu**!" Sorry if facts bother you. When you get older you may feel different. Either way, it is what it is. Sorry if some folks get upset about a Jewish toddler being cooked in an oven as his mum watches while being anally raped by an Arab before being murdered. I apologise for 600 Jews (and a handful of others) that were slaughtered at 2 raves dedicated to peace & love. I beg your forgiveness for Arabs having raped octonegarians & then murdering them. I beseech you to absolve me for the fact that 244 Jews (and a handful of others) having been dragged into Gaza & shoved into dank subterranaean tunnels for months. Can I ever forgive myself for Israel having conducted precision military operations to prevent a recurrence of all those Gazsn atrocities & seeking to liberate those abductees.

You bemoan the fact that some commenters make statements that bother you, and that they are not involved or no longer involved. I think most rational & mature hunan beings are upset at such things. If they are not reacting to factual info, or are not manipulated by propaganda, then they must be seriously fu**ed up.

Calling Israel a puppet of the US is hilarious. In 1983 I was in combat against the USMC. The close relationship with the US merely dates to 2017. Before that it ebbed & flowed, mostly the former.

"Palestinians should have their own state." Sure, they have really earned it, right? Lucky for you that they already have a state...Jordan. It exists on 77% of Mandatory Palestine. Its Queen & Crown Prince are Palestinians. 80+% of its population ARE Palestinians. Once the half English dwarf on the Throne keels over, voila. Until then, stop whining over Israel existing on a mere 12% of its land.

 

[nepalnt21]

It has zero to do with anything that Israel has done

yeah, man, absolutely nothing to do with the extremely awful atrocities the israelis have dished upon them for decades.

war sucks.

war doesn't have to include war crimes. that's why many countries came together after wwii and decided to enshrine much of these things into law.

search engine results are not facts

do you not know how to read critically? being serious, cause this statement tells me you might could benefit from a primer. not trying to be snarky, honestly... it just strikes me as odd that anyone would say this.

you only expect humanitarian behaviour from Israel.

i expect them to follow international law. just like everyone should.

(inb4, yes that includes hamas ffs)

UNRWA workers literally participated in the October 7th massacres.

ok, let's look at this... maybe my googling sucks, but it looks like there's little to no evidence of this.

i've got one picture of a dude with a gun next to a car that they claim was october 7th and this dude was participating... is there other evidence? please, i can't find anything else on this claim that came right when the icj told israel to not do at least one war crime in particular.

 

[swilow]

, let's look at this... maybe my googling sucks, but it looks like there's little to no evidence of this.

i've got one picture of a dude with a gun next to a car that they claim was october 7th and this dude was participating... is there other evidence

Whatever evidence there is was strong enough for UNRWA themselves to dismiss their workers.

Loading…

www.unrwa.org

 

[Rachrach]

or do your own homework, cause this isn't even a debated topic (except by those that lie and/ or are uninformed)

lines of research: targeted killing of the press, 2k pound bombs, collective punishment while condeming the civilian population, targeting aid trucks and unrwa (c0iNCidenTALly right when the icj told israel they need to make an effort in getting aid to gazans)

Do not tell me what something says. Prove that the claim is factual. Everything you mentioned is media fluff.

There is no "targetted killing of the press." There was 1 al Jazeera hypocrite, Shirin Abu Aqleh, who got her dome peeled by an errant roubd. Arabs say the IDF did it. The IDF says it may be true but if it was, it was errant & not targetted- but either way, there is no way to discern who did it, much less the circunstances. It took place in Jenin Camp, an area controlled by Palestinian terrorists. Both they & the IDF utilise 5.56 rounds, the round in the journslist's head.

Simultaneous to her being shot Palestiniand filmed themselves firing blindly down alleys & streets giddily trying to murder Security personnel who were withdrawing from the camp.

The journalist, Abu Aqleh, illegaly possesed an IDF radio that she used to shadow Security Operations. Ergo, she willingly placed hereelf in incredible danger. Moreover, she fully supported Palestinisn terrorism which led to her taking more personal risks. Never mind that her employer did as well (al Jazeera is Qatari State Media. Qatar is the political home of HAMAS, the Taliban, yadda yadda).

In the best of circumstances Conflict Journalists willingly place their lives in extreme jeapordy. They die with a high frequency. Israel is the most media- saturated environmemt on the planet. Were Israel targetting journalists there would be piles upon piles of corpses in blue helmets & vests AND there would be documentary evidence. There were 3 other journalists with Abu Aqleh. All 3 swear Israel did it. When asked for evidence they could not even state the direction of the trajectory.

Lastly, seconds after Abu Aqleh fell a Tanzim terrotist climbed over a shoulder high wall and dragged her & a fenale colleague in an attempt to get both into the camp. The colleague fought against him tooth & nail. He then returned to the camp alone. A whole lot of food for thoughr. I will add, during Abu Aqleh's funeral, her casket was being carried to a hearse (she was a Xtian from Jerusakem so the funeral was very different from almost all Palestinian funerals). As it wss being transferred to the hearse a large group of PFLP terrorists attempted to strongarm Abu Aqleh's pallbearers & take possesion of the casket. Police intervened & prevented the casket & Abu Aqleh's remains from being co-opted by those terrorists. Palestinians? They claimed loudly that Police attacked funeralgoers. My point? This is why claims & sources need to be vetted.

As for 1 tonne bombs, how does THAT qualify as a War Crime?

The accusation of Collective Punishment is sheer propaganda. Take Punative Home Demolition as an example. A terrorist murders 1 or more people. His or her home is then demolished. This is a 93-year old practice with proven utility. The practice was inherited from the British. It prevents further acts of terrorism in the short term.

For example, "Counter Suicide-Terrorism: Evidence From House Demolitions" by Benmelech [sic], et al in "The Journal of Politics" Volume 77(1) [2015] shows a 11.7% reduction in terrorism.

As for the UNRWA, simply examine last month's debacle that threatened the agency's mere existence. Israel released dossiers showing 42 agency staffers were HAMAS terrorists who participated in the October 7th Attack...or, the terrotost weapon caches discovered in Gazan UNRWA schools...or, HAMAS & PIJ tunnel outlets in UNRWA schools, warehouses & administrative offices...or, Yonatan Samerano's corpse photograohed being dragged through a street by another HAMAS terrotist employed by...you guessed it, the UNRWA on October 7th at the Nova rave outside Kibbutz Be'eri. Faisal al Na'ami is a UNRWA social worker. The aforementioned 41 dossiers were just the tip of the iceberg. Israel has already identified hundreds of UNRWA staffers who belong to terrorist organisations.

 

[Rachrach]

yeah, man, absolutely nothing to do with the extremely awful atrocities the israelis have dished upon them for decades.


war doesn't have to include war crimes. that's why many countries came together after wwii and decided to enshrine much of these things into law.


do you not know how to read critically? being serious, cause this statement tells me you might could benefit from a primer. not trying to be snarky, honestly... it just strikes me as odd that anyone would say this.


i expect them to follow international law. just like everyone should.

(inb4, yes that includes hamas ffs)


ok, let's look at this... maybe my googling sucks, but it looks like there's little to no evidence of this.

i've got one picture of a dude with a gun next to a car that they claim was october 7th and this dude was participating... is there other evidence? please, i can't find anything else on this claim that came right when the icj told israel to not do at least one war crime in particular.

It has zero to do with anything that Israel has done

"yeah, man, absolutely nothing to do with the extremely awful atrocities the israelis have dished upon them for decades":

While I appreciate your expert opinion I will be sticking with what is quantifiable. I will ask you directly:

If Palestinian terrorism occurs because of tyranical Israeli maltreatment, how did that terrorism begin in 1920?


"war doesn't have to include war crimes. that's why many countries came together after wwii and decided to enshrine much of these things into law.":

Are you seriously engaging in Holocaust Inversion) or is it that you equate the IDF with the Imperial Japanese Army? Do you know why the 4th Geneva Convention was devised? To prevent another Holocaust. Nothing Israel does has never come close to Nazi persecution of Jews (nor to a lesser extent Gays, "Gypsies" etc.). Nor does Israel come remotely close to contravening the Geneva Comvention, LOAC, nor even ICRC Customary Law.

"do you not know how to read critically? being serious, cause this statement tells me you might could benefit from a primer. not trying to be snarky, honestly... it just strikes me as odd that anyone would say this":

What does anything you have posted here have to do with "reading critically?" Critical Reasoning is a great thing but what exactly does it have to do with you telling me that I should Google something?

*To Mods, at this point I reckon that some photos from October 7th may benefit more than a few posters. Certainly Nepalnt21 who claims to have only been able to find one photo, of a man with a gun. If the photos contravene forum rules feel free to edit them. I will post them subsequently so if they run afoul, it will not affect this post.

 

[arrall]

@Rachrach I evidenced just about every claim I have made.
You can click on any of the shiny text to see it.
I have yet to see you evidence a single thing you have said, and look forward to seeing your evidence for some of these claims.

 

[swilow]

If Palestinian terrorism occurs because of tyranical Israeli maltreatment, how did that terrorism begin in 1920?

Indeed. I also wonder why the actions of Hamas are so strikingly similar to Al Quaeda, Isis, Hezbollah, 'insert your choice of jihadist group', none of which can claim that Israelis have divested them of land? Now, I'm no genius and am often wrong about things, but it strikes me that there is one rather obvious similarity shared among those groups. Whatever could it be?

With Israel, we're to believe that Israelis provoke violence from the jihadist group Hamas, while everywhere else that we see the same violence and brutality from jihadist groups, we can blame religion. There are Palestinian Christians, only 1 of whom has ever perpetrated a suicide attack.

The cognitive dissonance required to simply not see that Hamas are jihadists and their actions are those of jihadists is bewildering.

 

[deficiT]

Terrorism has 2 main causes:

1) Lack of access to a personally invested Democratic system.

2) Religious extremism.

These 2 precursors are definitely present with Palestinians. It has zero to do with anything that Israel has done or not done...Palestinians' organised campaign of terrorism predates Israel's very existence & in fact predates the existence of Palestinians themselves. It started on March 3rd, 1920 in Jerusalem with the All Syria Pogrom.

The future Grand Mufti al Amin al Husseini, his uncle, the Mayor of Jerusalem Musa al Husseini & their mutual friend, future Governor of Be'er Sheva District, 'Atef al 'Atef decided to slaughter Jews. This was nothing new. Arabs have been doing so in Genocidal attacks ever since the founder of Islam, Muhammad ibn 'Abdullah ibn 'Abd al Muttalib Sheimi al Hashimi al Qureish decided to turn on his Jewish benefactors in al Yathrib in 627 CE.

Muhammad's own tribe, al Qureish, tried to murder him & al 'Ummah (the Muslim community). It was the Jewish city of al Yathrib that offered him asylum, along with his followers in 622 CE. Muhammad repaid them by exterminating the men of 2 of the 3 Jewish clans who controlled al Yathrib. Their women & children were all enslaved though Muhammad later married one Jewish sex slave. The third Jewish clan fared slightly better, the Banu Nadir, who were Ethnically Cleansed though Muhammad would attack the Jewish city where they settled, al Khaybar.

In 634 CE, the Rashidun, the Islamic horde, invaded the Jewish homeland. Between 634 CE & 1920 there were literally countless Genocidal outbursts against the Jews. We managed to retain a majority in Jerusalem, Upper Galilee (which included Southern Lebanon north to Sidon) & Golan until the 18th & 19th Centuries with Golan being our last bastion until the 1830s (Jerusalem has always had a solid Jewish majority outside of the Aelia Capitolina & Crusader Era when racist bans Ethnically Cleansed us).

March 3rd, 1920 was a watershed because it was the first occasion where local Arabs murdered us for nationalist reasons, as opposed to the Dhimmitude of Islam. Ironically, local Arabs did not see themselves as a unique group (i.e. "Palestinians") but as Syrians. Only in 1964 was there a consensus amongst them that they were a unique group. There had been elements in the 1950s but they were a distinct minority.

So, Palestinians do not murder Jews out of maltreatment BY Jews. They do so out of abject Anti Semitism. Try reading the Unabridged HAMAS Charter.

As for your advice that I simply Google "Israel & War Crimes," uh, no. Do you understand that search engine results are not facts? All they are is an indexing of claims. My suggestion to you & all others is to vet such claims. Objectively examine such claims and factually research both the claim & its source.

As for you saying that "it's all whack," hahaha, yeah, as I have stated, war sucks. If Gazans had not illegaly infiltrated Israel to rape & murder THIS war would not exist.

"Everybody in this thread is being self righteous & annoying as fu**!" Sorry if facts bother you. When you get older you may feel different. Either way, it is what it is. Sorry if some folks get upset about a Jewish toddler being cooked in an oven as his mum watches while being anally raped by an Arab before being murdered. I apologise for 600 Jews (and a handful of others) that were slaughtered at 2 raves dedicated to peace & love. I beg your forgiveness for Arabs having raped octonegarians & then murdering them. I beseech you to absolve me for the fact that 244 Jews (and a handful of others) having been dragged into Gaza & shoved into dank subterranaean tunnels for months. Can I ever forgive myself for Israel having conducted precision military operations to prevent a recurrence of all those Gazsn atrocities & seeking to liberate those abductees.

You bemoan the fact that some commenters make statements that bother you, and that they are not involved or no longer involved. I think most rational & mature hunan beings are upset at such things. If they are not reacting to factual info, or are not manipulated by propaganda, then they must be seriously fu**ed up.

Calling Israel a puppet of the US is hilarious. In 1983 I was in combat against the USMC. The close relationship with the US merely dates to 2017. Before that it ebbed & flowed, mostly the former.

"Palestinians should have their own state." Sure, they have really earned it, right? Lucky for you that they already have a state...Jordan. It exists on 77% of Mandatory Palestine. Its Queen & Crown Prince are Palestinians. 80+% of its population ARE Palestinians. Once the half English dwarf on the Throne keels over, voila. Until then, stop whining over Israel existing on a mere 12% of its land.

-- all media is wrong

-- Palestinians deserve to have their children killed because of what some terrorist fucks did to Israel

-- ignores the US giving billions in aid to Israel over decades

-- continues pontificating to someone who already said their piece and said they're dropping it

-- "I'm not being self righteous"

All the greatest hits are here. Idgaf what you did or where you came from. I said I was done fucking talking about it.

 

[deficiT]

There "unwatch" button, again sorry to be a dick but anytime anyone voices reasonable concern about what's happening to Palestinians right now in this thread, it's like gang colors start to come out it's ridiculous.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

You know thread is legend of bullshit mill when even DeficiT is pissed off after few posts.

only 52 pages to v.2

 

[Jabberwocky]

Slavoj Zizek is a poser who is respected by intellectual hipsters for having a weird accent and convoluted positions :D

Clearly you don't listen to him much, but I also don't blame you for your opinion of him.

He's certainly not a poser, of all things. Quite the opposite IMO.

I like him in the way that I "like" Jordan Peterson, and one might say they are almost polar opposites, at least politically.

The modern world is apparently one with zero nuance. Just like most of the opinions in this thread. People side with one narrative and won't listen to anything else. Nuance is dead. People also apparently don't want long form discussions, they want immediate self confirming views. They don't want to think, they want other people to think for them.

In a world without nuance, I find intellectual convolution to be quite refreshing.

 

[Mjäll]

Clearly you don't listen to him much, but I also don't blame you for your opinion of him.

He's certainly not a poser, of all things. Quite the opposite IMO.

I like him in the way that I "like" Jordan Peterson, and one might say they are almost polar opposites, at least politically.

The modern world is apparently one with zero nuance. Just like most of the opinions in this thread. People side with one narrative and won't listen to anything else. Nuance is dead. People also apparently don't want long form discussions, they want immediate self gratifying views.

So in a world without nuance, I find intellectual convolution to be quite refreshing.

I've listened to a couple of hours of lectures. Now i don't listen to him anymore.

Convolution isn't nuance. It's a simplistic empty parody of nuance perfectly adapted to occupy the space of nuance in a world intolerant of nuance.

Like the other guy said. Zizek is a communist who doesn't believe in communism. That's not a serious position, it's intellectual peacocking. The problem is the stupidity is so blatant that some people are reluctant to point it out for fear of missing some "nuance" in the words of an alleged "philosopher". But the nuance never comes. He juszz(chch)zst blabberszs(chgrk)s away. Emperor's new clothes.

Btw i happen to represent the party of not taking sides in this very conflict... Speaking of nuance.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've listened to a couple of hours of lectures. Now i don't listen to him anymore.

Convolution isn't nuance. It's a simplistic empty parody of nuance perfectly adapted to occupy the space of nuance in a world intolerant of nuance.

Like the other guy said. Zizek is a communist who doesn't believe in communism. That's not a serious position, it's intellectual peacocking. The problem is the stupidity is so blatant that some people are reluctant to point it out for fear of missing some "nuance" in the words of an alleged "philosopher". But the nuance never comes. He juszz(chch)zst blabberszs(chgrk)s away. Emperor's new clothes.

Convolution is closer to nuance than whatever the fuck people watch on tiktok these days.

I'm a capitalist who doesn't believe in capitalism. Is there something inherently wrong with that? Nothing will ever be perfectly satisfactory in this world.

I also believe he's autistic, which is maybe why I like him.

But to discount him because of his speech impediment or his tics is low effort and boring

I dislike Peterson for several reasons, but not because he sounds like an emasculated Kermit the Frog.