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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

EADD Heroin thread v.XXV -- a quarter centuary of threads if not yet a full decade since the 'drought'...

Not sure if any1 hav kept eye on afghanistan poppy news? It say afghan farmers hav ignored talbain by planting poppy seeds across afghanistan this winter from october to december 2023. Europe and uk might be saved once again when the summer 2024 come around when opium harvest turn up. However david mansfield said he doesnt know how much poppy seed has sown across afghanistan. It might be not enough to supply europe once summer come around in 2024. So right now, david and his collegue are tryin to find out how much poppy seed has been sown, i hope to god there wont be heroin drought this summer! Let hope it wil be good news by then becauze i do nt want to die if fentanyl take hold of uk.. ffs!
 
You evidently didn't read the thread. Their are YEARS of H in the pipeline, stored in various nations that lead from Afghanistan to Europe.

It might take a few years for the Shans to get back to full production but the civil was in Myanmar seems almost suspiciously convenient from the POV of someone who deals in large consignments.
 
I think that, heroin wise, the cases of US and Europe can't mirror each one. America isn't and never was a opium culture continent, Asia allways was. US markets, after Vietnam, were mainly supplied from Mexico and Colombia, were a few very centralized mafia ruled crops in Tulipas, Guerrero and Sinaloa (Mexico) and Nariño and Norte del Cauca (Colombia) and that's all. Their production has spread addiction among local populations to a degrre, but we are talking some dozens of thousands of addicts in all latin america. Now, look at Asia. There is were millions and millions of addicts live; there are different opium producers out of the Crescent, you find them from Sinai desert and Lebanon Beqqa valley to the Triangle. And, as @AlsoTapered points, the current state of things in Myanmar are getting worse politically and better and better for opium production. All the northen peoples, not only Shan but Kachin, Karen, Wa... are sowing more and more hectareas.
Heroin may dissapear from Europe as it did from US, but it probably won't be tomorrow
 
The US presented a unique opportunity for the Mexican cartels because the OxyContin scandal saw the DEA essentially cut off the supply of strong opioids to hundreds of thousands of people in a matter of just a few months. Then it continued an insane system where any doctor prescribing 'above average' amounts of strong opioids WOULD be charged with a serious crime. I have a friend who is a lawyer in the US. They defend doctors and pharmacists so I got to hear a lot about it.
.
Long ago I read how fentanyl was introduced to the Mexican cartels. One of their members was in jail in the US with George Marquandt and realized the vast potential profits. I forget his real name but his nickname was 'El Cerebro' and when his time ended and he was deported back to Mexico, he knew how to make it. But I believe it was only when the OxyContin scandal hit and suddenly the size of the market increased hugely that ANY opioid, no matter how short-acting (in fact maybe BETTER to be short-acting) was needed to serve the market.

George Marquand had actually produced α-methyl fentanyl. It has a duration similar to H so in the early 1980s he was selling it as an active-cut. It only came to the attention of the DEA when their was a spate of 34 overdoses in the space of a week somewhere on the west coast. Someone hadn't been able to get ANY H and decided to try just cutting the αMF into a bulking agent and to sell that,

It's not like αMF (or α-methyl thiofentanyl) were any more difficult to make. I think the Mexicans figured that if it only lasts for 20 minutes then people would have to use more often.

But the not-so-news from 2017 was that a bulk dealer in Canada was found with hundreds of Kgs of carfentanil - a drug x100 more potent than fentanyl. It's a BIT more complex to make but the profit margins must be truly insane.

I note in Europe people are selling nitazenes on the darkweb (in 1 gram amounts) and I don't know exactly what analogue is being made, but UK H users are reporting that it's very potent, very sedating and actually longer acting than H...

And their are quite a few other scaffolds that have homologues with potencies in the hundreds or thousand of times higher than H,
 
I don't use, but for now I haven't been told of any existing "strangely strong" gear. Nevertheless, I keep reading in the main media that a certain 'fentanyl epidemic" is about to hit the country and the continent. On the other hand, Energy Control says, in their own words, that "there is no evidence" of the presence of fentanyl at the national "drugs markets". Not a word about nitazenes, tho.
But, at least where I live, what they sell as heroin keeps being heroin, and that's what the police labs show when seized batches are tested
 
By no means is their no risk of fentanyl. It has occasionally turned up but only further down the supply-chain, No dealer wants to be stuck with unsalable gear and as far as I can tell, users would hear about dodgy gear in the area and figure out where it was coming from.

It's only when a region has a single major supplier that a preferred drug can be replaced with an inferior product that is inferior and/or dangerous.

The thing is a few people have reported actively preferring the nitazenes (if indeed that is what it was). So it is possible that it WILL find a market.

But the nitazenes do require some pretty unusual precursors and a very unusual catalyst. The scope for obtaining these within Europe in large amounts would be relatively easy to control. As things stand it would appear that it's currently just a handful of darkweb suppliers in the Baltic nations. That's where all the fentanyl analogues that turned up in Russia were produced.
 
AlsoTapered said:
The US presented a unique opportunity for the Mexican cartels because the OxyContin scandal saw the DEA essentially cut off the supply of strong opioids to hundreds of thousands of people in a matter of just a few months. Then it continued an insane system where any doctor prescribing 'above average' amounts of strong opioids WOULD be charged with a serious crime. I have a friend who is a lawyer in the US. They defend doctors and pharmacists so I got to hear a lot about it.
.
Long ago I read how fentanyl was introduced to the Mexican cartels. One of their members was in jail in the US with George Marquandt and realized the vast potential profits. I forget his real name but his nickname was 'El Cerebro' and when his time ended and he was deported back to Mexico, he knew how to make it. But I believe it was only when the OxyContin scandal hit and suddenly the size of the market increased hugely that ANY opioid, no matter how short-acting (in fact maybe BETTER to be short-acting) was needed to serve the market.

George Marquand had actually produced α-methyl fentanyl. It has a duration similar to H so in the early 1980s he was selling it as an active-cut. It only came to the attention of the DEA when their was a spate of 34 overdoses in the space of a week somewhere on the west coast. Someone hadn't been able to get ANY H and decided to try just cutting the αMF into a bulking agent and to sell that,

It's not like αMF (or α-methyl thiofentanyl) were any more difficult to make. I think the Mexicans figured that if it only lasts for 20 minutes then people would have to use more often.

But the not-so-news from 2017 was that a bulk dealer in Canada was found with hundreds of Kgs of carfentanil - a drug x100 more potent than fentanyl. It's a BIT more complex to make but the profit margins must be truly insane.

I note in Europe people are selling nitazenes on the darkweb (in 1 gram amounts) and I don't know exactly what analogue is being made, but UK H users are reporting that it's very potent, very sedating and actually longer acting than H...

And their are quite a few other scaffolds that have homologues with potencies in the hundreds or thousand of times higher than H,
Click to expand...

The Nitazene analogues coming from China on the same type places you mention are advertised as Isotonitazene and Etonitazene. 1gram listings right up to 50g.

I also read the Nitazene analogues are harder to test for than Fentanyl analogues were, although I'm unsure why this is? Presumably Energy Control with their GC/MS testing would still show the prescene of Nitazenes.
 
AlsoTapered said:
By no means is their no risk of fentanyl.
Click to expand...


Sure that there are risk, no such thing as zero risk, but what Energy Control says is that ithere is no actual evidence, so say National Police labs. Now, not every batch of heroin get busted by cops or tested by Energy Control, that's true. So I think we can agree that there is indeed a risk, but the situation as a whole can't (for now) be labeled as scary or very dangerous in the euro markets, or at least in Spanish ones
Caution is allways required when it comes to buy illegal drugs in the street and inject them; these days, some extra caution is surely advisable but that's all, imo.
 
Señor Moreno said:
Sure that there are risk, no such thing as zero risk, but what Energy Control says is that ithere is no actual evidence, so say National Police labs. Now, not every batch of heroin get busted by cops or tested by Energy Control, that's true. So I think we can agree that there is indeed a risk, but the situation as a whole can't (for now) be labeled as scary or very dangerous in the euro markets, or at least in Spanish ones
Caution is allways required when it comes to buy illegal drugs in the street and inject them; these days, some extra caution is surely advisable but that's all, imo.
Click to expand...

Maybe not in Spain. There are results of Heroin, Benzos and Opiate pills in the UK, to be containing Nitazene analogues though. Check Wedinos website for confirmation.
 
Yes, I allways keep an eye on this thread. But I honestly wonder if the problem could be inside the UK. If the contamination took place in high pre- european levels of the distribution channels, those things should be showing up in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Portugal.... every country with good health and harm reduction systems, but that's not the case, apparently.
Again, only a thought, but maybe some dodgy bastards are getting those criminal compounds from the net to their british adresses and adding them to make the most out of their h.
Same thing happens with "street valium" and all sort of pressed pills, big thing in the whole UK and a national crise in Scotland, but a non existing problem in most euro countries. How many illegal "labs" of pressed pills have cops seized in the UK during last years? What the hell prevent those people, those bastards, from ordering nitazenes, instead of - lams/-pams, to open a new bussines line?
I don't know, that's just me wondering
 
Señor Moreno said:
Yes, I allways keep an eye on this thread. But I honestly wonder if the problem could be inside the UK. If the contamination took place in high pre- european levels of the distribution channels, those things should be showing up in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Portugal.... every country with good health and harm reduction systems, but that's not the case, apparently.
Again, only a thought, but maybe some dodgy bastards are getting those criminal compounds from the net to their british adresses and adding them to make the most out of their h.
Same thing happens with "street valium" and all sort of pressed pills, big thing in the whole UK and a national crise in Scotland, but a non existing problem in most euro countries. How many illegal "labs" of pressed pills have cops seized in the UK during last years? What the hell prevent those people, those bastards, from ordering nitazenes, instead of - lams/-pams, to open a new bussines line?
I don't know, that's just me wondering
Click to expand...

Yeah it's not the people who are supplying kg's of heroin adulterating it but maybe a few unscrupulous dealers who take ounces then adulterate it. Generally it's not tolerated well by users or other dealers, as other members here have said.
As i said though this is GENERALLY speaking, i'm sure there's still a very minimal amount of suppliers who have tried to adulterate H with RC opiods and sell wholesale. Obviously it's a foolish move, as they wind up with a load of stock that won't sell and will only cause them problems.

With the benzos i believe it is a different scenario entirely. Those Bensedin testing with Itonitazene etc in them are not being pressed in the UK in my opinion. I noticed several big UK suppliers stopped stocking Bensedin recently and said there was a drought. Given they come from Serbia, Serbian chemists/pharma brands do not have the best reputation, and Diazepam powder seems tougher to find nowadays than say 10 years ago. I think they knew their supply was coming to an end and tried to stretch it. As these batches with the Nitazene analogues in them came right before they seemingly stopped pressing.
 
Interesting what you tell me abiut Serbia, very factible I reckon. Still, I have read of many presser labs seized into the UK, as the rate of abuse of fake benzos in your Islands seems really really huge, so it should be room for local and foreign actors
 
Señor Moreno said:
Same thing happens with "street valium" and all sort of pressed pills, big thing in the whole UK and a national crise in Scotland, but a non existing problem in most euro countries. How many illegal "labs" of pressed pills have cops seized in the UK during last years? What the hell prevent those people, those bastards, from ordering nitazenes, instead of - lams/-pams, to open a new bussines line?
I don't know, that's just me wondering
Click to expand...
When they busted a huge fake valium operation in Scotland, they found they were making with etizolam (10x diazepam).
I actually find etizolam better!
 
I see the Nitazene analogues are showing up more in America. Someone selling Protonitazene powder US-US, as 'pressed roxicodone M30 powder'. So it seems they could also be beginning to replace fentanyl analogues.

I guess when they are more potent per gram ie make more pressed tablets per gram, then perhaps the people importing the powder/pressing the pills will favour them over fent analogues?
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
You are at Primary School & learning your Junkie alphabet.
I know what will happen, I have seen a million like you who say the same thing, I have seen many more dead in a few years.

"Almost burned out my eyes
Threw my ears down to the floor
I didn't see nothin'
I didn't hear nothin'
I stood there like a block of stone
Knowin' all I had to know
And nothin' more
Man, that's nothin'
As brothers our troubles are
Locked in each others arms
And you better pray
They never find you
Your back ain't strong enough
For burdens doublefold
They'd crush you down
Down into nothin'"

That's a University education in Opiate use kid ;)

Click to expand...

Looking for random answers and i see a TVZ song ive never heard before. Man that song slaps so hard. Townes later years supposedly he was just vodka which is soul crushing for some reason
 
Señor Moreno said:
Interesting what you tell me abiut Serbia, very factible I reckon. Still, I have read of many presser labs seized into the UK, as the rate of abuse of fake benzos in your Islands seems really really huge, so it should be room for local and foreign actors
Click to expand...
Un grande corazon par a ti,mi amigo:hear4t:.Que tal?Todo bien?Sabes-tu tienes un realmente amigo in Sud-Est Europa.Un fuerte abrazo....I hope u are doin' well.....or at least so..so🤝🇧🇬🇪🇦
 
Well China FINALLY prohibited the production of fentanyl precursors and the DEA actually lists the pre-precursors that were being shipped instead.

But IF the nitazenes were being produces in Mexico, I would have presumed that etonitazene or even 4-carboxamido etonitazine (the former being x1500M, the latter some x3000 M)? After all, the latter is likely even legal in Mexico.

Their are actually quite a few other scaffolds in the literature and so I'm sure we will eventually see nitazene precursors being controlled and then something else taking their place.

The odd thing is that their are some good precursors 'hiding in plain sight' but it requires a somewhat different approach - not a methodology criminals have ever (to the best of my knowledge) ever employed.
 
Nas47 said:
Un grande corazon par a ti,mi amigo:hear4t:.Que tal?Todo bien?Sabes-tu tienes un realmente amigo in Sud-Est Europa.Un fuerte abrazo....I hope u are doin' well.....or at least so..so🤝🇧🇬🇪🇦
Click to expand...

Nas!! How are you, brat moi?? How sweet it is to know about you! I am mostly doing ok and I really hope that you are doing so aswell! Btw, what a beautiful 🏔 do you have as your profile pic, how gorgeus nature do you have in the Balkans, God
I Will PM you later so we can chat

Un abrazo enorme para tí también❤
 
AlsoTapered said:
Well China FINALLY prohibited the production of fentanyl precursors and the DEA actually lists the pre-precursors that were being shipped instead.

But IF the nitazenes were being produces in Mexico, I would have presumed that etonitazene or even 4-carboxamido etonitazine (the former being x1500M, the latter some x3000 M)? After all, the latter is likely even legal in Mexico.

Their are actually quite a few other scaffolds in the literature and so I'm sure we will eventually see nitazene precursors being controlled and then something else taking their place.

The odd thing is that their are some good precursors 'hiding in plain sight' but it requires a somewhat different approach - not a methodology criminals have ever (to the best of my knowledge) ever employed.
Click to expand...

No offence meant by this but i wouldn't give anyone hints towards precursors for synthesizing this crap.
 
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