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Russo-Ukrainian War v. World War 3?

Yes the US economy is much bigger and economics is the key of it all, that's why Russia, China and their partners are de-dolarizing it in a increasing number of fields and transactions.
Also, we need to understand that UE is not a real Union and, sooner or later, euro countries will buy their gas again, in fact some already do, just like they and the US kept buying their Uranium, even more now that France has lost its Niger source. And more important, Russia isn't isolated at all: the West has tried a worlwide boicot on Russia and has failed miserabily, only the same West (plus Japan and S Korea) has joined the idea. Latin America has not, Asia (even a NATO member like Turkey) has not, India - a traditional pro western and most populated country in the world- has not and let alone Africa and the muslim world, where they hate the West with a passion and where Russia wins supporters everyday and where China has overtaken the markets for good. The richest part of the world can't be confused with the biggest part of it. 80% of the world population lives in Russia friendly countries, that's the raw truth
They told us that Russia's economy would collapse in 6 months and russian citizenship would rise against the war, that Putin was about to die, that the Ucranian counteroffensive would bring Crimea back to Kiev's govmt... nothing of that has happened.
Ucranians won the battle for their capital and Russia has already won the war for Dombass and has conected it with Crimea, and no amount of propaganda can change the facts.
 
haha man....sanctions...in russian markets-they got everything from everywhere.People live normal.Enough movies about how look a metro station in Russia and US on ther other side.Big looser is Europe from all that.Many big companies from Germany and other countries move their way to US...cause more cheap energy.and lack of eu regulations...big problem with immigrants goin on also-they integrate very difficult in local societies and often are real burden for the state.In EU how much......min five-six countries are in recession now.Direction is no good.That way more of the people got poorer...can't handle with elementary nessecities of life......and so on
 
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Hey Nas!!
Yes, it's like you say. But we westerners keep being told that Russia is isolated.
We close our eyes and then we think that the whole world have gone blind, we are sad and we think the whole world is crying...
 
Señor Moreno said:
Yes the US economy is much bigger and economics is the key of it all, that's why Russia, China and their partners are de-dolarizing it in a increasing number of fields and transactions.
Also, we need to understand that UE is not a real Union and, sooner or later, euro countries will buy their gas again, in fact some already do, just like they and the US kept buying their Uranium, even more now that France has lost its Niger source. And more important, Russia isn't isolated at all: the West has tried a worlwide boicot on Russia and has failed miserabily, only the same West (plus Japan and S Korea) has joined the idea. Latin America has not, Asia (even a NATO member like Turkey) has not, India - a traditional pro western and most populated country in the world- has not and let alone Africa and the muslim world, where they hate the West with a passion and where Russia wins supporters everyday and where China has overtaken the markets for good. The richest part of the world can't be confused with the biggest part of it. 80% of the world population lives in Russia friendly countries, that's the raw truth
They told us that Russia's economy would collapse in 6 months and russian citizenship would rise against the war, that Putin was about to die, that the Ucranian counteroffensive would bring Crimea back to Kiev's govmt... nothing of that has happened.
Ucranians won the battle for their capital and Russia has already won the war for Dombass and has conected it with Crimea, and no amount of propaganda can change the facts.
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What the heck is UE?
 
Bulgary is buying Russian gas, that's for sure and the EU allows it. Hungary is probably doing so. Spain and Belgium (which also buys diamonds from Russia) are the world's first importers of russian LNG (sp? liquid gas, you know) and France, Holland...
Theory sings one song but reality dances another music.

But Europe is a rich but tiny part of the world. If you don't take Russia into account, then you have 15 countries with more than 100 millions inhabitants.
USA, Japan and maybe Philippines -570 million people- are against Russia.
China, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, Brazil, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Mexico, Congo Dem Republic, Ethyopia, Egypt and Vietnam -4,7 billion people in English or 4.700 millions in other languages- are not against Russia.
That is exactly how isolated Russia is.
 
Señor Moreno said:
Bulgary is buying Russian gas, that's for sure and the EU allows it. Hungary is probably doing so. Spain and Belgium (which also buys diamonds from Russia) are the world's first importers of russian LNG (sp? liquid gas, you know) and France, Holland...
Theory sings one song but reality dances another music.

But Europe is a rich but tiny part of the world. If you don't take Russia into account, then you have 15 countries with more than 100 millions inhabitants.
USA, Japan and maybe Philippines -570 million people- are against Russia.
China, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, Brazil, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Mexico, Congo Dem Republic, Ethyopia, Egypt and Vietnam -4,7 billion people in English or 4.700 millions in other languages- are not against Russia.
That is exactly how isolated Russia is.
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what do you mean tiny? Europe has more landmass than the USA
Unless you wanna call the US tiny? ;) I'm up for that actually

Holland isn't a country, that's a region in the Netherlands. Germany would still buy Russian gas if the US hadn't detonated our pipes.
You still don't have 15 countries with over 100 million inhabitants, lol. We have like 750 mil in total and none of us are over 100mil, except for Russia. Germany and France are almost there. Europe is about 600 mil without Russia. So about double the inhabitants of the US.

I agree about Russia not being isolated tho. Russia has many friends, and the entire US plan backfired here. That's a few billion down the drain - first pushing billions into Ukraine (before 2014 btw) and funding extremist organisations like Svoboda (John McCain), organizing a coup in 2014. Now organizing the war, having to detonate 2 German pipes, the US put a LOT of money into this conflict, and now it doesn't look very good. Seems like Russia is getting the trade they suggested over a year ago, that NATO tried to prevent from happening.

I mean we've seen this coming a mile away. US is losing power fast, the dollar is losing power fast.
If FED status eventually gets revoked the US is 33 trillion dollars in debt without having any way to pay it back.
Then a century of warring, manipulating and backstabbing will come to bite the US in the ass, and now their last ditch effort to fuck over Russia has pretty much failed completely.
In the end it's just 2 Empires that should have long died fighting to stay relevant.

edit: we don't say 1000 million, we say 1 milliarde, and 1000 milliarde are 1 billion.
so 1 billion for us is: 1,000,000,000,000
and for Americans it's: 1,000,000,000

after that it's 1 billiarde: 1,000,000,000,000,000
then trillion, trilliarde, quadrillion, quadrilliarde, quintillion, quintilliarde, and so on.

not every language has the same system either. French people say 90 like: "4 times 20 plus 10", no joke.

but most non-English natives are very used to American numbers, because you hear and read them a lot.
 
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It's fair to say that Russia isn't totally isolated... but the only people who are prepared to sell them weapons are Iran and North Korea. China is selling dual-use stuff but is nominally attempting to remain neutral.

Russia is VERY keen to form an alliance with China to counter 'a unipolar world controlled by the US' but compare the size of the two nation's economies. China clearly wants Manchuria back. One of the biggest problems facing China is shortage of fresh water and Lake Baikal (貝加爾湖) is the largest fresh water lake (by volume) in the world.

So right now China is watching Russia fight a war based on the logic that a certain piece of land is 'Historically Russian' seemingly without considering that China can use exactly the same reasoning.

Both China and the US have a vested interest in a war that exhausts Russia militarily and financially. Russia simply isn't a super-power any more. It's a vast nation with an almost unbelievable amount of natural resources and yet it's vastly under-developed. Russia's GDP just slipped below that of Mexico. MEXICO.
 
AlsoTapered said:
It's fair to say that Russia isn't totally isolated... but the only people who are prepared to sell them weapons are Iran and North Korea. China is selling dual-use stuff but is nominally attempting to remain neutral.

Russia is VERY keen to form an alliance with China to counter 'a unipolar world controlled by the US' but compare the size of the two nation's economies. China clearly wants Manchuria back. One of the biggest problems facing China is shortage of fresh water and Lake Baikal (貝加爾湖) is the largest fresh water lake (by volume) in the world.

So right now China is watching Russia fight a war based on the logic that a certain piece of land is 'Historically Russian' seemingly without considering that China can use exactly the same reasoning.

Both China and the US have a vested interest in a war that exhausts Russia militarily and financially. Russia simply isn't a super-power any more. It's a vast nation with an almost unbelievable amount of natural resources and yet it's vastly under-developed. Russia's GDP just slipped below that of Mexico. MEXICO.
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What's so bad about Mexico? #15 in the World. Good GDP actually, could be better - but it's pretty good. Russia is #11 as of 2023, btw.
Very low unemployment rate, and their income might be lower, but everything is about 40% cheaper in Mexico, so low taxes.
They have good healthcare, much better than the US, with over 70% of the population covered by healthcare.
They're amazing at football("soccer"), nice food, cool hats, ponchos, pretty women. What's not to love about Mexico?

China is biding its time to attack Taiwan. It IS going to happen, that's non-negotiable. China will surveil the situation from a safe enough distance,
already having promised Russia enough support to not lose them as an ally, but not so much support that they lose the West. China is playing its cards very well.
But sooner rather than later it will cut its ties to the West. Right now we're just a little ka-ching on the side, while they prepare.

The issue in this conflict is really not Russia. It's to not start WW3, so we kinda have to let Russia do what it wants. The teams are ready, and it looks BAD for us.
BRICS is 3.24 billion people, over 40% of the world population. We're not even 1 billion if you take ALL NATO into account.
If this conflict breaks out we are royally screwed. No amount of technology could save us from that - plus they have the better hackers anyways.. and Saudi money

So we kinda just let Russia do its thing and hope for the best.
 
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Señor Moreno said:
Thanks man, I thought it was the same in the whole English speaking world.
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o nono, it is the same for all English speakers

I meant in the non-English parts of Europe like France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, Sweden, etc :)
English is not the dominant language in Europe, only 2 out of 47 countries speak English
I'm not a native speaker. English is my third language

Although ORIGINALLY 1 billion in the UK was 1 million million, so what they call a trillion today.
 
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December Flower said:
o nono, it is the same for all English speakers

I meant in the non-English parts of Europe like France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, Sweden, etc :)
English is not the dominant language in Europe, only 2 out of 47 countries speak English
I'm not a native speaker. English is my third language

Although ORIGINALLY 1 billion in the UK was 1 million million, so what they call a trillion today.
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I just don't count that high so I don't have to worry about it
 
AlsoTapered said:
It's fair to say that Russia isn't totally isolated... but the only people who are prepared to sell them weapons are Iran and North Korea. China is selling dual-use stuff but is nominally attempting to remain neutral.
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Russia is the world's second biggest arms exporter after the US. It's not like they're starved for weaponry.

Russia also has a trade surplus, while much of the West has a trade deficit.

Yet the Western jingoists insist that Russia needs the West more than the West needs Russia.

<doomer talk>

20th century belonged to US maybe next century will belong to China or Russia, or even India
 
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Their is nothing inherently wrong with Mexico but it's population is 126.1 million compared to Russia's 143.4 million.

So it can hardly be said to have a strong economy in spite of being the largest nation on earth blessed with a vast amount of natural resources. It takes some really special governance to make so little from so much.

China and the US are the two super powers and it's very likely India will become a powerful nation although historically it has never sought to project power as China, the US and, formally, the USSR did.

So while it's certain that Russia will indeed increase it's trade with China, it's always going to be just A trade partner with China. China has no need of Russia.. Russian territory, yes; Russia as a nation, no.

Empires come and empires go. Russia is NOT the USSR.

BTW indeed Russia is the second largest exporter of arms. But the US is way ahead. France makes almost as much from arms exports as Russia does, but the key difference is that France exports many things.
 
I think the problem is that Russia, used Eastern Europe as 'buffer nations' to make invasion impossible. But even BEFORE the USSR was formed, every single attempted invasion of Russia failed. Even the US recognises that it would be an impossible task and for what benefit?

Every nation has the right to defend itself, but it doesn't have the right to invade other nations to do so.

I don't think anyone can argue that Russia has now become a right-wing authoritarian state with one of the highest wealth disparities in the world. But without a free market, those with wealth can actually be hugely INefficient and retain their wealth. Corruption is, ultimately, what has made so little from so much. Because it makes MORE business sense to offer an inferior product and BRIBE whoever is acting for the buyer than to win a contract by having the best product.

It's estimated that 25% of the Russian economy is lost due to bribery but that makes a LOT more than 25% difference.

But it's when you look closer that you realize nobody is investing in the future, possibly because their is no certainty. Russia doesn't have a single silicon foundry for mass production. They did have a roadmap to build a 26nM plant by 2026 but that seems to have disappeared. Since the IC is the single most common 'machine' in human history, Pretty vital to modern living. But NOBODY is prepared to invest.

That's just an example of how the Russian government is dooming it's own future. 26nM is 2010 technology BUT it apparently still the cheapest process on a per-feature basis so whoever came up with the roadmap really had thought it through (and 26nM WFE machines are available second hand so I'm guessing they even considered what was practical to obtain).

Finally - OFFICIALLY Russia might have a trade surplus but anything bought by the VERY inefficient expedient of sanction-busting.

It will be interesting to see how much longer commercial airlines can last. I understand Putin now uses an armoured train. Unless Russian air defences are vastly worse than we thought, it's not likely because he fear attack; likely he fears a technical failure.

Putin has stated he wants Russia to become an autarky, but the history of such models has never worked out too well for the people. I have nothing against the Russian people who seem to me to want the same basic things as us all. But even they have (historically) decided enough was enough.
 
AlsoTapered said:
I don't think anyone can argue that Russia has now become a right-wing authoritarian state with one of the highest wealth disparities in the world. But without a free market, those with wealth can actually be hugely INefficient and retain their wealth. Corruption is, ultimately, what has made so little from so much. Because it makes MORE business sense to offer an inferior product and BRIBE whoever is acting for the buyer than to win a contract by having the best product.
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How many Russians are relegated to living in tents by the overpass? There are multiple such encampments in my city and, from my understanding, in many other cities across the West.

We have hundreds of thousands of excess deaths occurring annually now, that is being completely ignored by newsmedia and leadership, in favor of focusing on how to control Russia, which seems to have been backfiring.

At this rate, it isn't going to matter much what Russia does if our own society collapses while trying to overthrow Putin.
 
thujone said:
Russia is the world's second biggest arms exporter after the US. It's not like they're starved for weaponry.

Russia also has a trade surplus, while much of the West has a trade deficit.

Yet the Western jingoists insist that Russia needs the West more than the West needs Russia.

<doomer talk>

20th century belonged to US maybe next century will belong to China or Russia, or even India
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Well, to be honest, the next century will probably belong to the cockroaches, or the ants, or whatever will thrive in a post-global warming world. But maybe we should start a new thread for that issue
 
chippermonk said:
Well, to be honest, the next century will probably belong to the cockroaches, or the ants, or whatever will thrive in a post-global warming world. But maybe we should start a new thread for that issue
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It will just be the new normal. There is too much fearmongering making people think it's the end of the world when realistically war and economy will still be what affects us more. It's not like we're going to starve in a warming world, even if some species do go extinct.
 
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