Why would I respond to a false equivalency? Its ridiculous to entertain them and distracts from the issue at hand which is Israel genociding Palestinians
Israel is under attack
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Yep, I could argument all day but I have already said everything, rly, I can't help thick skull. I am here just to pick the sweetest low-hanging fruits.
mal3volent
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Everyone knows the answer anyways. It's okay, 
assclass
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Its pretty obvious at this point that they're just scared of Muslims in general so they support the genocide, which is sad
mal3volent
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Come on man, this is such a lazy argument. You can do better.
This identity politics bullshit is toxic as hell. I don't give a fuck what religion you are. But I can and will judge you on the ideological values you hold.
900 years ago I'd be giving the same criticism of Christianity. Luckily for us they decided to modernize their religion to make it palatable to progressive societies.
Islam is lagging behind in that regard, to say it politely. An objective analysis of the facts makes that obvious. You should not keep your head buried in the sand on the issue from fear of being ridiculed by your marxist friends online. You will earn respect from everyone if you are consistent with your values. Especially when it is not convenient for you.
I personally do not trust anyone who falls in line on every single issue-- left or right. It just isn't possible in todays complex world.
I'm not the one participating in identity politics here, you're the one who stated that the other Islamic countries should take the Palestinians simply because they're the same religion while stating that you're afraid of them because they might kill someone like you. Broad generalizations based on religion based in fear
I maintain the internally consistent position that all humans deserve to be treated not like shit, and right now Israel is doing the shit treating while people like you defend them out of your fear of one specific group of people. You can't relate to the brown Muslims? They just deserve to be held in camps and carpet bombed then I guess.
And your arguments about Jewish people having an older claim to the land don't hold water either because some of the Jews from the area and Palestinians descended from the same groups of people. But we still cant treat the Palestinians like humans eh? Just throw more gas on the fire then.
mal3volent
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Really? Pretty sure I never said that.
I said I'm only afraid of the ones who want to kill me. That's like...the opposite of a generalization, right?
I am inherently recognizing there are some Muslims who are normal, non-homicidal people. You see, saying "brown Muslims" is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't have to make every goddamned thing about race. But lots of people tend to do that these days. It's a crutch. When actual racism (or any other form of bigotry) actually happens, I'll be right there with you. But there's no need to constantly look for it where it doesn't exist.
My position on that for the umpteenth time is I don't think anyone should be talking about claims to land in the first place. But IF that conversation took place, Israel probably has a better historical argument. Hope we are clear on that now.
But hey man, I actually want to commend you on taking more than 30 seconds on that post. Very refreshing.
Come on, don't bullshit. You would feel pretty uncomfortable too if you were suddenly forced to live in a community predominantly comprised of these people. Everyone in the UK knows about Tower Hamlets and Luton, and what utter, utter shitholes those places have become due to a certain demographic change. It's not an irrational fear, it's a justified fear to be afraid of people who themselves have a tendency towards irrational behaviour.
Or how about a neighbourhood in Sweden? What did Sweden ever do to deserve the treatment they are now subjected to by this same demographic? You can argue the case with the UK and our war mongering, but Sweden did nothing historically by comparison and yet they are now riddled with violent crime - I would be especially nervous if I had a daughter living in those areas.
Sorry, but there's fire with this smoke. It's not irrational, unlike all the verbal attacks towards Jewish people. Not every Muslim is irrational, but the religion itself in combination with cultural factors creates enough irrationality that we can see the self-evident results of it.
Your position is not consistent though. "Turn the other cheek" doesn't begin on the precondition that the other person go first, it means you go first and create the peace you wish to have. Murdering 1000+ innocent people in the most brutal fashion is about as far away from that as you can possibly get.
In this context, regardless of how poorly conceived and implemented the founding of Israel was, all down the line the oppressed people as it were have done absolutely nothing to come to an amicable solution. They don't want peace. They want Israel gone, they want Jews gone.
As a neutral observer to this mess it's clear who the fools are in this arrangement. They are wasting their own lives, and those around them, in a pointless circle of violence that will either end with their annihilation or mutually assured destruction. All the while wasting time, energy, money, and blood, when they could drop the hatred and start making something out of the situation. It's ridiculous. There's enough land in that area for everyone. But it's not even about the land anymore - how many of the people there were even alive at the time of the founding of Israel? It's like the BLM movement and getting all neurotic about slavery you personally never suffered. It just becomes an excuse for anger. No one alive today has any connection to slavery what so ever, so it's pointless. Likewise with the Israel situation.. it's pointless to cling to the hatred.
If there was any heart to these people they would have been like, "Shit, heard what happened in Germany pal. That's tough. We can make this work, there's enough space here. Beer and sheesha?".
There is no sympathy, it's the diametric opposite. Jewish people just became a locus for all the internal rage that the Arab world feels at itself for being unevolved tribal uselessness.
ps How the hell can you be consistent when these people would happily throw people you know off roofs just because of their sexual orientation? I don't say that they should be punished for their ignorance, two wrongs don't make a right, but you can't possibly be consistent by failing to acknowledge the hatred that these people exude towards those that don't fit their narrow mould (which is based on their religion fundamentally).
Cream Gravy?
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^Well frickin’ put mate.
Is there a "right side" here though? The Palestinians are clearly an oppressed group, walled off in Gaza and the West Bank, deprived of various liberties, and the West Bank is increasingly settled by Israelis (particularly since the ones that settle these areas tend to practice fundamental Judaism and are an aggressive and deluded group of people). It is not surprising that they lash out.
Does that give the Palestinians a right to go on massacres like the did in early October? I don't know, depends on who's shoes you're in. But as long as they are walled off in those pressure cookers known as Gaza and the West Bank, things like this are inevitable (even in the absence of Hamas).
Like I said, if I were forced to, I'm more likely to sympathize with the Israeli's just out of my own biases against Arabs and Muslims. I have a good friend who's Palestinian father killed his mom and and sister, and then lit the house on fire with all of them in it (my friend was able to escape -- he was 11 years old at the time). So that, plus my interactions with other arabs (along with everything I've seen elsewhere) as given me the impression that they are a hot-headed bunch, and frankly assholes to a degree, which in turn makes me sympathize with them less. But this isn't a good basis for "picking sides".
The jews wanted a state of their own. They chose a place that they had some historical and religious connection to, but it was already inhabited to some degree. Now they've made enemies with all of their neighbors. There really is no solution that I see here. Perhaps they could pay each family a large amount of money in exchange for leaving Gaza, but even if they accepted, I don't think Egypt or Jordan would be interested in taking them in.
But again, the pro-Palestinian/anti-israel protesters who are screaming "stop the bombing", as if their action is unprovoked, should really shut the fuck up, because what do they expect. It's Hamas who fucked up, the attack on October 7th was a essentially suicide attack, as they knew they were sacrificing innocent Palestinians as they were well aware that Isreal would respond multifold.
Jabberwocky
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I am delighted to see resisting forces in jews too yet again
elgoucho9
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Highlights the problem with alot of this thread; people assuming that all Palestinian's supported the October 4th attacks. Or that all Jews support Israel's reaction.
The Hamas attack was terrible, but the point of this back and forth is to point out the continuous oppression and ethnic cleansing that Palestinians have been facing. People take this one Hamas attack and seem to use it to excuse the incredible amount of Palestinian slaughter that's happened which is crazy to me. One group is obviously the aggressor with power and financial backing from the US. The other is the Palestinians in Gaza, the west bank, and Golan.
They actually don't though, if anything they have an equal claim to the land as the Palestinians who were there already because their ancestors were both there at the same time and some of them likely have the same ancestors. However the Palestinians already had a thriving culture there and Israel came in and is now erasing the culture and people
mal3volent
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The Palestinians are in a tough spot, no doubt. I have sympathy for the ones who want peace. Unfortunately they are controlled by a literal death cult. They aren't lashing out because of a land dispute, or because they've been traumatized by being kept in a cage. Their hate for Jews predates the formation of the Israeli state. I posted a map that illustrates this fact. They drove the Jews out of all the surrounding Arab countries. Look in their holy scripture, the hate is there too. October 7 was religiously inspired, not politically.
Okay this cage metaphor is really a bit too far. But for the sake of argument let's say it's a cage. Hamas built the cage, okay? Islamic extremism and its mission to drive the Jews into the sea put them in the cage. If you were Israel and had a militia firing rockets at you day and night, would you just say okay guys, we'll tear these walls down? Come on in, we know you want to exterminate us, but hopefully this act of good will might change your mind?
I also fail to see how life in Gaza would make a person rape innocent women. Or shove babies into ovens and cook them to death. Or kidnap elderly holocaust survivors. I just don't buy that logic. People spend decades locked up in actual prisons where they are subjected to all manner of brutality , get released, and somehow don't do those things right?
Actually it was not just them who chose it. Lots of people came together and made it happen. It was British territory. It was brutal how it happened, absolutely, that innocent people were driven out. But that's how the world operated back then. Wars were fought then the victors made the rules. In this case it was decided the Jews needed their own State. After being chased around and killed for thousands of years. They picked their historical homeland, a small slice of it. In the post wwII world, that's how shit happened.
exactly. As I said Hamas doesn't want peace. There can be no peace until their threat has been neutralized. Why the fucking UN doesn't realize this is beyond me, other than they are compromised by many Muslim nations who hate Israel. Why aren't they pressuring Hamas to release the hostages? What's up with that? Surely that would be the reasonable prerequisite for a cease fire...
mal3volent
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For all the IDF hate in this thread, do you see how they came in and removed the flags without violence or intimidation? If that scenario had played out in Gaza, do you think the pro-Israel Palestinian children would have been laughing and dancing in the street at the end?
I'd love to see Israel do better on free speech issues like these, for sure. But this video illustrates exactly how far apart the cultures are.
is that relevant question?
mal3volent
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Yeah, it is extremely relevant.
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