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Islam and my relationship with drugs

I once followed Islam for a bit, I have great respect for the Sufis

Aint nothing in the quran that doesn't say you can't smoke some weed or do some psychedelics.

LSD & psychedelics are gods gifts to humanity to have a spiritual experince and get to know god on a personal and deeper level.

Religion itself is a tool for control be it for any of them.

In the middle east the rulers proclaim to follow islam, yet their conduct is not islam, hoarding massive wealth, corruptin, getting political opponents murdered, every so called scholar out there making up another interpretation that fits their own human agenda.

God is one,

God loves everything.

God will not send you to hell for getting drunk or doing drugs. God understands.

The key thing is to enjoy things in moderation. Do not abuse drugs. The original rules were there to help people moderate their own desires without getting consumed by them.
 
I understand where people are coming from when they challenge the prohibition on intoxicants from a purely Scientific or subjective moral standpoint. i’ve made this comparison before, but I’ll repeat it Just to illustrate this point. many things are prohibited in religions which, despite having potentially harmful components, can be made safe yet, they are still prohibited. sex outside marriage is a good example. One could argue that this prohibition purely exists to protect the moral relationship and structure of the family with the added benefits of protecting against sexually transmitted diseases. however, engaging in other extramarital sexual contact in a way that won’t induce pregnancy or spread disease, doesn’t make it permissible. whilst the mainstream belief in Islam is that Allah only prohibited us from what is bad for us, The overarching point of these prohibitions is to test our commitment to him. in Islam, struggling and fighting against the desires to do what is prohibited is considered a major act of worship. for people who don’t hold this view, it is very difficult for them to understand why religious people put themselves through this difficulty. when it comes to drugs, I guess I’m extremely lucky because I have little interest in trying intoxicants or psychedelics. actually, I have an innate fear of psychedelics that I’ve had since I was a child. my interest is primarily on drugs that can increase well-being or produce euphoria without causing lapses in judgement. if I can convince enough Muslim and non-Muslim neuroscientists alike to work on creating a halal euphoriant, people of all religions and beliefs could enjoy the benefits of such a drug.
 
I practice my own religion. I am the only member. I am devout. I pray often. I meditate. I ohm.

Psychedelic drugs are at the core of my religion.

Through 5-MEO-DMT and Amanita Muscaria (among other powerful tools), one can sit down and directly engage with God.

There is something to be learnt from every religion, but it is best IMO to have a direct and uncomplicated personal relationship with God.
 
Frog Dreams said:
I practice my own religion. I am the only member. I am devout. I pray often. I meditate. I ohm.

Psychedelic drugs are at the core of my religion.

Through 5-MEO-DMT and Amanita Muscaria (among other powerful tools), one can sit down and directly engage with God.

There is something to be learnt from every religion, but it is best IMO to have a direct and uncomplicated personal relationship with God.
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This is it!
 
I did study the Quran and concluded that drugs that harm judgement and/or cause damage to the user are considered haram but then tobacco isn't prohibited, although many Muslim clerics have stated that science has taught us that smoking damages the body. I appreciate that Islam uses science to arrive at a verdict.

But the view on hallucinogens seems to be that they CAN cause harm. I would argue that set and setting seem to be ignored in this interpretation. I think also the REASON someone is consuming them is ignored. Nobody consumes alcohol with a view to it making themselves a better person.

It's not unreasonable for clerics to adopt the medical axiom 'first do no harm' but I do believe that recent studies have shown that such drugs can improve the mental health of some specific groups. If and when they are used within clinical practice, I assume they would be regarded as haram.

Please forgive my limited knowledge of Islamic scripture but I do at least try my best to be informed. If you are of the Muslim faith, Allah will see into your heart and understand your choices.
 
AlsoTapered said:
I did study the Quran and concluded that drugs that harm judgement and/or cause damage to the user are considered haram but then tobacco isn't prohibited, although many Muslim clerics have stated that science has taught us that smoking damages the body. I appreciate that Islam uses science to arrive at a verdict.

But the view on hallucinogens seems to be that they CAN cause harm. I would argue that set and setting seem to be ignored in this interpretation. I think also the REASON someone is consuming them is ignored. Nobody consumes alcohol with a view to it making themselves a better person.

It's not unreasonable for clerics to adopt the medical axiom 'first do no harm' but I do believe that recent studies have shown that such drugs can improve the mental health of some specific groups. If and when they are used within clinical practice, I assume they would be regarded as haram.

Please forgive my limited knowledge of Islamic scripture but I do at least try my best to be informed. If you are of the Muslim faith, Allah will see into your heart and understand your choices.
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I’m really glad you undertook your own studies to become better informed. almost everything you said here was correct but your point about hallucinogens might be a bit more complicated. of course, the first answer most mainstream muslim scholars would give is that psychedelics are Haram because they are intoxicant. however, A small number of scholars in Iran have begun to consider allowing psychedelic use in clinical practice for the treatment of severe refractory depression. though I’m not a scholar, I take the opinion that depression is a serious threat to life, So using psychedelics is more than justified.
There’s also something very interesting regarding cannabis. A small number of high-ranking Islamic scholars have hinted at the need to better understand The properties of the diverse strains of cannabis as not all may be intoxicant. this is a more rational approach and could mean that high CBD strains with some THC could be allowed even for recreational use, though not recommended.
I honestly believe bringing Islam and science together and openly discussing the topic of recreational drug use could lead to halal drugs which will benefit both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. I don’t know if this is true, but I once read an article claiming that tolerance to cannabis effects develops differently in different regions of the brain with desensitisation of cannabinoid receptors in the hippocampus and increased sensitivity/ expression of the same receptors in the striatum. apparently, this explains why tolerance develops rapidly to the memory impairing effects of THC whilst the feeling of being high is left intact or even enhanced. I don’t know what this means for human behaviour, but if it means one can get the sensation of being high without losing control of themselves, it’s a good starting point for research on halal drugs.
 
@Neuroprotection

This is slightly off topic, but I'm going to attend a local mosque soon. Been planning on doing it for some time.

Would it be super disrespectful if I was micro-dosing on LSD or if I was a little stoned?

I'm becoming more and more interested in Islam. Call to prayer is beautiful and there's something about the sheer devotion of Islam that I find appealing. The western world is (mostly) spiritually bankrupt these days. Some of us are spiritual, but there isn't much of a sense of community. I like the idea of praying/worshipping together. Christianity doesn't appeal to me, much. I also want to attend a local synagogue.

My beard has gotten to a length now that I don't think people would bat an eyelid if I went to either mosque or synagogue.

From what I understand, both environments are welcoming to newcomers?

I have read the Quran and (while I dislike / disagree with sections) there are definitely some beautiful passages that speak to me.

...

I'm curious, @Neuroprotection, do you have a personal relationship with God / Allah outside of Islam?

Mohammed obviously did, because Islam didn't exist before he created it.

Ideally your relationship with God shouldn't rely on anything, IMO, including religion.

Bagseed said:
if "god" gave you pointless rules to "test" you, then "god" is one petty mf, in my opinion
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With all due respect, I think you're misunderstanding the nature of devotion.
 
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Frog Dreams said:
@Neuroprotection

This is slightly off topic, but I'm going to attend a local mosque soon. Been planning on doing it for some time.

Would it be super disrespectful if I was micro-dosing on LSD or if I was a little stoned?

I'm becoming more and more interested in Islam. Call to prayer is beautiful and there's something about the sheer devotion of Islam that I find appealing. The western world is (mostly) spiritually bankrupt these days. Some of us are spiritual, but there isn't much of a sense of community. I like the idea of praying/worshipping together. Christianity doesn't appeal to me, much. I also want to attend a local synagogue.

My beard has gotten to a length now that I don't think people would bat an eyelid if I went to either mosque or synagogue.

From what I understand, both environments are welcoming to newcomers?

I have read the Quran and (while I dislike / disagree with sections) there are definitely some beautiful passages that speak to me.

...

I'm curious, @Neuroprotection, do you have a personal relationship with God / Allah outside of Islam?

Mohammed obviously did, because Islam didn't exist before he created it.

Ideally your relationship with God shouldn't rely on anything, IMO, including religion.



With all due respect, I think you're misunderstanding the nature of devotion.
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I’m so glad to hear you’re interested in Islam. please feel free to visit the mosque, i’m sure they’ll be extremely welcoming. if you do have a somewhat negative experience such as feeling ignored or left out, which is very unlikely, please keep in mind that sometimes culture plays a role. in regards to Microdosing LSD or being slightly stoned, I wouldn’t consider it disrespectful and it is your personal choice. I would however, suggest you do try experience prayer in the mosque without any drugs in your system so you can truly appreciate how powerful the experience can be.

In regards to entering the synagogue, I would advise you speak to local Jewish leaders first. this is just what I’ve heard and I can’t independently verify it, but some Jewish communities would prefer that they are notified in advance of any non-Jew entering the synagogue.

In terms of my relationship with Allah, it is mostly the traditional Abrahamic concept of a servant worshipping God by trying our best to follow his rules and two generally be a nice person to everyone. I do speak to Allah in prayer and supplications including telling him about all the problems that have affected me, as well as all the desires I want in life and in the afterlife. sometimes I feel like the relationship and my devotion to God is stronger, where as other times it can feel weak and shaky. this is a normal part of life.
To be honest, one of the biggest destroyers of my spirituality, Happiness and relationship with God is The unbelievable/unpredictable stress caused bye family arguments. I have a brother with some kind of undiagnosed mild autism with severe anger issues. when he’s in a bad mood, he would literally look for an argument/fight with any sibling or with his parents and this creates an extremely stressful atmosphere. there’s always a threat of an argument or fight hanging in the air. sometimes I turn to Allah during these difficult times, but on other occasions I find myself giving up on voluntary/highly recommended acts of worship. this isn’t out of disappointment with Allah, but because this type of severe stress can make my mind extremely fuzzy and can make me feel mentally immobilised.
 
I have worked in the disability sector for decades, so I understand how stressful that can be. My domestic situation is also extremely toxic / dysfunctional / unstable... but probably not to the same extent as with your brother.

I'm surprised by your response to the drugs question. That was helpful to hear because I will be less self-conscious now when attending mosque if I'm not sober.

And I will contact my local synagogue prior to visitation. Thanks for the tip.

If you ever want to talk about the situation with your brother, send me a private message. I have a lot of experience with autistic behaviours. I have learnt to not be triggered at work. I have also learnt not to be triggered (most of the time) by my domestic situation. I just now got screamed at for 30 minutes. Told I am a "piece of shit". Told I am "worthless". Told I am a "fuck up". She made it very clear that she hates me. I didn't let it get to me. These problems are hers, not mine.

Lots of love, brother. <3
 
Neuroprotection said:
tolerance develops rapidly to the memory impairing effects of THC whilst the feeling of being high is left intact or even enhanced
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I don't think that's true for most people. Well at least not for relatively heavy users. As both personally and quite a few people I know noticed significant improvement in memory and "clearheadines" after stopping cannabis use, sometimes after many years without real brake and it takes at least a few days up to few weeks to really notice that. Also think reverse tolerance is a phenomena that's experienced by just a fraction of people using cannabis. If you don't count those who can't get high for some reason first time or few first times using it, and that might be more psychological than really neurological.
And last but not least, high is definitely diminished with time, otherwise we wouldn't have 97% THC + 3% of stuff really making high stronger. Not a lot of newbie users would appreciate taking a bong hit of such stuff as it would be way more intense for almost all of them. When I on few occasions smoked a joint of super strong stuff with some casual users more often than not they stopped smoking after one hit so even they had some experience with cannabis a hit of such stuff from bong would be all but nice experience for them.
 
Memory - and general functionality / happiness - improves drastically when taking a decent (week or two) long break after long term (year long / decade long) abuse of THC.

The high is reduced significantly over time. At the peak of my use, I could easily consume 7 grams of edibles in one day... If I did that now, I would likely get super paranoid then sleep for 72 hours.
 
Frog Dreams said:
Memory - and general functionality / happiness - improves drastically when taking a decent (week or two) long break after long term (year long / decade long) abuse of THC.

The high is reduced significantly over time. At the peak of my use, I could easily consume 7 grams of edibles in one day... If I did that now, I would likely get super paranoid then sleep for 72 hours.
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And not only that but ime a lot of positive, medicinal effects get back. Like for those that, among other things or exclusively for that, use cannabis as sleep-aid. I can come to the point where I'll be trough the night and I'll feel somewhat better than without weed but it won't get me to sleep. With tolerance break a right strain will help me fall asleep very fast compared to how it would be without cannabis.
 
Frog Dreams said:
I have worked in the disability sector for decades, so I understand how stressful that can be. My domestic situation is also extremely toxic / dysfunctional / unstable... but probably not to the same extent as with your brother.

I'm surprised by your response to the drugs question. That was helpful to hear because I will be less self-conscious now when attending mosque if I'm not sober.

And I will contact my local synagogue prior to visitation. Thanks for the tip.

If you ever want to talk about the situation with your brother, send me a private message. I have a lot of experience with autistic behaviours. I have learnt to not be triggered at work. I have also learnt not to be triggered (most of the time) by my domestic situation. I just now got screamed at for 30 minutes. Told I am a "piece of shit". Told I am "worthless". Told I am a "fuck up". She made it very clear that she hates me. I didn't let it get to me. These problems are hers, not mine.

Lots of love, brother. <3
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Wow, what a beautiful response. I’m really glad you found my advice useful and I wish you all the best on your Life and spiritual journey. thank you so much brother. i’ll definitely send you a private message sometime, i’d love to discuss my situation further.
 
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