The Dive's Covid Thread

[Las Veghost grower]

A lot of people still don't accept that ivermectin (dirt cheap) works for Covid, and that no other effective treatments could exist or the EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) for the Covid shots wouldn't have been allowed, which is why ivermectin was attacked and doctors were told they'd lose their jobs for prescribing it for covid

Because of the EUA the shots didn't need to go through the traditional length of trials meaning more profits sooner

The people who don’t get this at this moment in time are the willfully ignorant one, and honestly I say fuck em , if you cant notice the train coming at you head on I have no sympathy, only feel bad for those peoples kids

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

 

[AlsoTapered]

Paper from last month:

COVID-19 Excess Deaths in Peru’s 25 States in 2020: Nationwide Trends, Confounding Factors, and Correlations With the Extent of Ivermectin Treatment by State

Introduction In 2020, nations hastened to contain an emerging COVID-19 pandemic by deploying diverse public health approaches, but conclusive appraisals of the efficacy of these approaches are elusive in most cases. One of the medicines deployed, ivermectin (IVM), a macrocyclic lactone having...

www.cureus.com

correlation ≠ causation.

Peru also has the worlds highest covid death-toll per capita in the world

Covid-19: Peru’s official death toll triples to become world’s highest

Peru has revised its official death toll in the covid-19 pandemic from 69 342 to 185 380, after a scientific review of medical records ordered by the government. The new figure means that Peru has had 5551 covid deaths per million population, proportionally the worst official toll in the world...

www.bmj.com

Oh, and it is now belatedly giving a covid vaccine with over 92% of the population having received 1 inoculation.

Peru - COVID-19 Overview - Johns Hopkins

Peru - COVID New Cases, Deaths, Testing Data - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

coronavirus.jhu.edu

 

[nepalnt21]

ivermectin, anyone with a brain knew it helped or at least there was no harm in trying it.

lol this is one ironic fucking thing to say... ever google (it's a verb, pick a SE of choice duh) "died from ivermectin"???

 

[AlsoTapered]

An Ivermectin Influencer Died. Now His Followers Are Worried About Their Own ‘Severe’ Symptoms.

Danny Lemoi took a daily dose of veterinary-grade ivermectin and told his thousands of followers to give the drug to children. He died of a common side effect of the medication.

www.vice.com

Florida woman who sued for ivermectin dies from COVID

PALM BEACH GARDENS, Fla (AP) — A Florida teacher hospitalized with COVID-19 has died after her husband unsuccessfully sued to force doctors to treat her with ivermectin, a drug popular among some skeptics of accepted coronavirus treatments despite a lack of studies proving its effectiveness.

apnews.com

What harm indeed.

pro-ivermectin Influencer dies from ivermectin poisoning and woman who sued to GET ivermectin dies of covid.

There are also dozens of people whose only 'crime' was to believe the influencer and take equine worming tablets...

We need to:

Normalize deplatforming pseudoscience

 

[-=SS=-]

We need to: Normalize deplatforming pseudoscience

Right, so only the 'trusted' sources can have a monopoly on discourse and discussion regarding science? At that point you have to stop lying to yourself and concede science is now just the same authoritarian religious system that it supposedly transcended centuries ago - we've already got the priest class (Fauci "I am the Science!"), and begun the heresy part (anti-vax, climate denialist, etc), and it won't be long until the persecution part.

The 'psuedoscience' is just a symptom of a scientific system that has already failed. If there were actual transparency and integrity, and not this giant mess of political and financial corruption, then people would not need to resort to making wild claims (from your perspective) because true discussion and dialogue would already be taking place. It is because there is corruption, which people outside the system can intuit or even recognize directly, that they begin to speculate themselves on what is true/false in the system of science.

You want to stop psuedoscience? Then make the scientific enterprise more open and transparent, and allow for actual dialogue and discussion. It is no different to the domain of conspiracy theories; corruption in the political system, and the system of power itself being too far removed from the light of discussion and dialogue of the people.

Anyone who wants more restriction and less dialogue, I have to immediately question their integrity. Only liars fear open discussion.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

What makes them trusted is the peer review process where scientists who are not paid for their work to keep them unbiased are asked to check whether the research and data analysis is actually sound. That's a big part of how science makes reasonable progress, if we used blog posts as sources of scientific evidence do you understand how slow things would move?

Everyone's uncle with a blog would be posting whatever they wanted and it would be far harder to tell what is actual closer to reality. Science is a large distributed effort not the monolith that you seem to think it is. There are many labs that build off of the work of other labs and without the peer review model they would be chasing dragons that don't exist because anyone would be able to just make whatever claims they want. This is why we have a high standard for evidence, because it's what actually drives progress. That "narrow academic model" you mentioned is literally the entire reason we have progress

 

[Droppersneck]

Conflating people using horse products off label with ivermectin is pretty dishonest. Ivermectin has an extremely good safety profile. It was only demonized due to the establishment needing to keep the EUA in place. Just goes to show you how powerful state propaganda is, it has most establishment liberals convinced ivermectin is some dangerous substance lol.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

There is evidence that treatment with ivermectin does not improve outcomes

Effectiveness and safety of Ivermectin in COVID-19 patients: A prospective study at a safety-net hospital - PubMed

Ivermectin has been found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro. It is unknown whether this inhibition of SARS-CoV-2 replication correlates with improved clinical outcomes. To assess the effectiveness and safety of ivermectin in hospitalized...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines Reduce Immune Response to Other Infections, Potential Concern of Immune Deficiency​

Marina Zhang

7–8 minutes

---

A recent study on the immune effects of Pfizer’s COVID-19 mRNA vaccine has scientists raising concerns over vaccine-acquired immune deficiencies.

Vaccine-acquired immune deficiency syndrome (VAIDS) is a new colloquial term coined by researchers and health practitioners since the COVID-19 vaccine rollout. Though not recognized as a medical condition, some experts believe the COVID-19 vaccines may impair or suppress immune responses.

While the new study does not use the term VAIDS, the researchers recognized “a general decrease in cytokine and chemokine responses” to bacteria, fungi, and non-COVID viruses in children after COVID-19 vaccination.

“Our findings suggest SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination could alter the immune response to other pathogens, which cause both vaccine-preventable and non-vaccine-preventable diseases,” the authors of the paper published in Frontiers in Immunology wrote.

“This is particularly relevant in children as they: have extensive exposure to microbes at daycare, school, and social occasions; are often encountering these microbes for the first time; and receive multiple vaccines as part of routine childhood vaccination schedules.”

The researchers from the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute and Royal Children’s Hospital in Melbourne, Australia, took blood samples of 29 children, both before vaccination and after two Pfizer mRNA doses.

They found that blood samples post-vaccination had a lower cytokine response to non-COVID pathogens compared to before vaccination. This reduced immune response was particularly persistent for non-COVID viruses. Blood samples taken at six months showed some children still had low responses for hepatitis B virus proteins and proteins that mimic a viral infection; however, cytokine responses had increased for bacterial exposures.

Immune responses to COVID-19 proteins—including spike proteins and their S1 and S2 subunits—and nucleocapsid proteins remained high after vaccination.
Professor Retsef Levi, specializing in risk management and health systems at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), posted on X (formerly known as Twitter) that the study “adds to cumulative evidence suggesting adverse immune alteration” by COVID-19 vaccination. Family physician Dr. Syed Haider and immunologist and computational biologist Jessica Rose both connected the study’s findings to VAIDS.

The study findings suggested “that repeat mRNA vaccine injections could predispose children to both viral and bacterial infections,” cardiovascular research expert and retired professor of medicine at Brown University Dr. Andrew Bostom told The Epoch Times over email.

However, the study arrived at this conclusion by measuring cytokine levels which is only a surrogate marker for a person’s immune response.

He explained that logical and critically warranted follow-up studies would include researching to see if children with reduced cytokine levels developed infections.

......

COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines Reduce Immune Response to Other Infections, Potential Concern of Immune Deficiency

Vaccine-acquired immune deficiency syndrome (VAIDS) is a new term coined by researchers since the COVID-19 vaccine rollout.

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[nepalnt21]

true discussion and dialogue

this is already a thing. peer review, etc... we are discussing the grifters (such as the influencers that embolden people to do harmful things like take horse paste and die) that actively contribute to death and suffering.

 

[thujone]

What makes them trusted is the peer review process where scientists who are not paid for their work to keep them unbiased are asked to check whether the research and data analysis is actually sound. That's a big part of how science makes reasonable progress, if we used blog posts as sources of scientific evidence do you understand how slow things would move?

i've already posted this a few times -

Transparency of COVID-19 vaccine trials: decisions without data | BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine

BMJ is a respected journal and the peers have reviewed COVID vaccine trial data and determined it's insufficient.

it says this so right in the summary -

Widespread use of interventions without full data transparency raises concerns over the rational use of COVID-19 vaccines.

the peers have determined that there's not enough data available to make a sound analysis, and yet you're sticking to the story that there was, and choosing to pick apart easy targets like this invermectin nonsense rather than acknowledge a valid point that contradicts the validity of "the science".

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Funded by these guys, how interesting. An investor and an oil company exec, I'm sure there's nothing behind that funding right

Laura and John Arnold

Laura and John established the Laura and John Arnold Foundation in 2010. They believe philanthropy should be transformational and should seek through innovation to solve persistent problems in society. As co-founders, Laura and John actively engage in the organization’s overall direction and daily…

www.arnoldventures.org

And if you look further at the details:
Provenance and peer review Commissioned; externally peer reviewed

 

[someguyontheinternet]

COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines Reduce Immune Response to Other Infections, Potential Concern of Immune Deficiency​

Marina Zhang

7–8 minutes

---

A recent study on the immune effects of Pfizer’s COVID-19 mRNA vaccine has scientists raising concerns over vaccine-acquired immune deficiencies.

Vaccine-acquired immune deficiency syndrome (VAIDS) is a new colloquial term coined by researchers and health practitioners since the COVID-19 vaccine rollout. Though not recognized as a medical condition, some experts believe the COVID-19 vaccines may impair or suppress immune responses.

While the new study does not use the term VAIDS, the researchers recognized “a general decrease in cytokine and chemokine responses” to bacteria, fungi, and non-COVID viruses in children after COVID-19 vaccination.

“Our findings suggest SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination could alter the immune response to other pathogens, which cause both vaccine-preventable and non-vaccine-preventable diseases,” the authors of the paper published in Frontiers in Immunology wrote.

“This is particularly relevant in children as they: have extensive exposure to microbes at daycare, school, and social occasions; are often encountering these microbes for the first time; and receive multiple vaccines as part of routine childhood vaccination schedules.”

The researchers from the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute and Royal Children’s Hospital in Melbourne, Australia, took blood samples of 29 children, both before vaccination and after two Pfizer mRNA doses.

They found that blood samples post-vaccination had a lower cytokine response to non-COVID pathogens compared to before vaccination. This reduced immune response was particularly persistent for non-COVID viruses. Blood samples taken at six months showed some children still had low responses for hepatitis B virus proteins and proteins that mimic a viral infection; however, cytokine responses had increased for bacterial exposures.

Immune responses to COVID-19 proteins—including spike proteins and their S1 and S2 subunits—and nucleocapsid proteins remained high after vaccination.
Professor Retsef Levi, specializing in risk management and health systems at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), posted on X (formerly known as Twitter) that the study “adds to cumulative evidence suggesting adverse immune alteration” by COVID-19 vaccination. Family physician Dr. Syed Haider and immunologist and computational biologist Jessica Rose both connected the study’s findings to VAIDS.

The study findings suggested “that repeat mRNA vaccine injections could predispose children to both viral and bacterial infections,” cardiovascular research expert and retired professor of medicine at Brown University Dr. Andrew Bostom told The Epoch Times over email.

However, the study arrived at this conclusion by measuring cytokine levels which is only a surrogate marker for a person’s immune response.

He explained that logical and critically warranted follow-up studies would include researching to see if children with reduced cytokine levels developed infections.

......

COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines Reduce Immune Response to Other Infections, Potential Concern of Immune Deficiency

Vaccine-acquired immune deficiency syndrome (VAIDS) is a new term coined by researchers since the COVID-19 vaccine rollout.

www.theepochtimes.com

That article has already been responded to by the author of the paper:

“Any suggestion that our exploratory study implies that COVID-19 vaccines cause a harmful suppression of children’s immune system is a naïve and misguided oversimplification of our findings, and ignores other studies that do not support this concept.” - Quote by author of study Dr Andrés Noé

A statement regarding a recent COVID-19 vaccination publication - Murdoch Children's Research Institute

Murdoch Children’s Research Institute has released a statement from the authors of the recent publication, “BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccination in children alters cytokine responses to heterologous pathogens and Toll-like receptor agonists”. Read more.

www.mcri.edu.au

naïve (/nʌɪˈiːv,nɑːˈiːv/) adjective - a person showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement
misguided (/mɪsˈɡʌɪdɪd/) adjective having or showing faulty judgement or reasoning
oversimplification (/ˌəʊvəˌsɪmplɪfɪˈkeɪʃn/ noun simplification of something to such an extent that a distorted impression is given

 

[thujone]

Funded by these guys, how interesting. An investor and an oil company exec, I'm sure there's nothing behind that funding right

Laura and John Arnold

Laura and John established the Laura and John Arnold Foundation in 2010. They believe philanthropy should be transformational and should seek through innovation to solve persistent problems in society. As co-founders, Laura and John actively engage in the organization’s overall direction and daily…

www.arnoldventures.org

And if you look further at the details:
Provenance and peer review Commissioned; externally peer reviewed

say what you mean. if you have any supporting facts that indicate they're trying to push some sort of political/economic agenda, then present those facts.

why would you even assume there's anything suspicious about it?

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I always assume there's something suspicious about articles when billionaires not only fund the research but also pay for external peer review. I also can't offer criticism on the actual article itself because it isn't available without purchase through any of my sources.
Have you read it? Do you have the PDF?

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

I always assume there's something suspicious about articles when billionaires not only fund the research but also pay for external peer review. I also can't offer criticism on the actual article itself because it isn't available without purchase through any of my sources.
Have you read it? Do you have the PDF?

But you're not suspicious of the billionaires in the pharmaceutical companies

That makes a lot of sense

 

[Soso78]

How many on here not been vaccinated?
You all going back into lockdown in America soon?

 

[someguyontheinternet]

No I definitely am but the research is more trustworthy when it goes through the normal bureaucracy of the established review system rather than being shortcutted.

Fuck those billionaires that run pharma companies they're some of the worst because they profit off of pretending to care about helping people in medical situations I'm saying this as someone who may work in the industry at some point but I'll be damn sure to find an ethical nonprofit drug company to work for before I line the pockets of those cunts

 

[thujone]

I always assume there's something suspicious about articles when billionaires not only fund the research but also pay for external peer review. I also can't offer criticism on the actual article itself because it isn't available without purchase through any of my sources.
Have you read it? Do you have the PDF?

the article is on sci-hub (not linking due to BLUA), it's short and to the point because it's more of a call to arms than study paper. there is a footnote about an author that does publish opinions openly - https://trusttheevidence.substack.com/

No I definitely am but the research is more trustworthy when it goes through the normal bureaucracy of the established review system rather than being shortcutted.

Fuck those billionaires that run pharma companies they're some of the worst because they profit off of pretending to care about helping people in medical situations I'm saying this as someone who may work in the industry at some point but I'll be damn sure to find an ethical nonprofit drug company to work for before I line the pockets of those cunts

this is all good, if the normal bureaucracy is legitimate.

the problem is that little things like pharma corporations sponsoring medical education brings into question whether health authorities are maybe... consciously or subconsciously... biased towards portraying said pharma corps in a more charitable light than they really deserve.

the corruption in the healthcare industry has been discussed for years (decades?) so it's not like this mistrust of health authorities is just coming out of the blue. we were all just trying to focus on living life until the government decided it would try and make our lives difficult unless we signed up to be guinea pigs.