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⫸Trans and LGBTQIA+ Discussion⫷

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i truly don't see what is so harmful about not putting people in jail for letting their kids see a dude in a non- sexualized bette midler costume. maybe you could explain the harm? please use simple terms, apparently i'm very dumb for not being able to see this.

No one is talking about jail so I'm just dismissing that straw man first.

Secondly, there have been many, many instances of lewd behavior by drag queens towards children. It's been recorded and all over the internet.

Third, a drag queen doing something g-rated and then going to their usual adult nightclub job later where they do something more r-rated is not a good role model. Their content is all over Instagram and kids know how to find them.

And finally, drag and children is intertwined with the education system which is also exposing children to inappropriate material, at least in the highly left-wing areas. It has become part and parcel with gender identity confusion being projected at children, teaching young children about masturbation, showing them lewd imagery in books and other materials, and advocating that "children can consent."

It's pretty obvious what is going on. They are grooming a generation of children to grow up and accept "minor attracted persons" by weakening the healthy boundaries that normally exist between adults and children. The writing is on the wall. I'm a gay person and I can see that it's plain as day that there is a pedophilia angle to all this. If they can consent to adult shows, surgery, and the opinion of their parents is legally irrelevant, then this is grooming.

Simply calling the opposition fascist and right-wing is mindlessly naive. People are reacting to a genuine problem.

No means no. You're going to lose this battle and take the LGB community down with you in the process. And that's why I hate people like you. LGB (and A) is about sexuality. TQ+ is about gender experiments and other weird shit that has nothing to do with gay people.
 
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speaking of strawman, holy fuck... that whole post of yours is like 90% fallacy/ bad faith.

where to even start??!


I hate people like you
ah, ok... i'll just skip the whole thing since you've got your mind made up and have no interest in learning what i actually think...

have a good day!
 
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speaking of strawman, holy fuck... that whole post of yours is like 90% fallacy/ bad faith.

where to even start??!



ah, ok... i'll just skip the whole thing since you've got your mind made up and have no interest in learning what i actually think...

have a good day!

I accept your concession.

I understand that cherry picking what offends you and walking away is way easier than actually addressing anything I've said.

Just because I hate people like you doesn't mean my points are irrational.

Ta.
 
@SvnLyrBrto

i agree with you on all counts, BUT

unfortunately the debate over children and drag/ dudes in tights twerking has taken center stage.
I wouldn't even grant them as much that they are engaged in a debate at all. If they were, they'd know better than to employ logical fallacies like ad homonyms and appeals to emotion in the first place. No, all they're really doing is trying to shout people down (And rather contemptibly using children as props to do so.) without bothering to support their hateful talking points on any merit... because they know they have none.
 
I wouldn't even grant them as much that they are engaged in a debate at all. If they were, they'd know better than to employ logical fallacies like ad homonyms and appeals to emotion in the first place. No, all they're really doing is trying to shout people down (And rather contemptibly using children as props to do so.) without bothering to support their hateful talking points on any merit... because they know they have none.

You're welcome to try debunking anything I've said above.

I'm moderate-left, a gay person, and I have no interest in shouting people down because I know I'm right. Most people are not okay with involving children in drag and in sex and gender identity education at very early ages. I can offer many, many critiques of the education programs I personally know about. My niece and nephew are both experiencing them now and there are ethical issues. I also have trans friends who are against grooming children with these unscientific ideologies.

I find it's actually left-wing progressives who refuse to have the conversation and tend to be emotionally hyperbolic. They call disagreements "fascism" or "genocide." They also act like the left wing is supposed to be this monolithic group that acts in solidarity, when in fact many on the left disagree with progressive approaches currently. They are moving so far left that they are alienating liberals who are in favour of more balanced approaches. You know, long-term scientific studies on how this stuff affects children before we cram through policy.

This is why I'm in favour of LGB splitting from the TQ+. They have hijacked our community with radical identity politics. They are free to pursue this line of reasoning all they want but they should do it alone and face the consequences alone. It's not going to end well. You have States like WA who have legally made it possible for the education system to indoctrinate their kids without their parents knowing, and for the State to remove children from homes if their parents don't honour the child's "right to consent" to gender transformation -- a process which is now being shown to have flimsy requirements with almost no differential diagnosis.

Protestors are not reacting to nothing. These issues are all part and parcel with one another.
 
^nothing sexual about that huh @nepalnt21 ?
There is nothing sexual about this chud!


2-F49-F27-B-85-D0-4-DFA-AE17-52-E4-A47-C2458.png
 
There is nothing sexual about this chud!
These "all ages" drag shows have been popping up in down in Aus too - funny how it started innocently with "just reading to children", then the drag queen would teach them how to dance, then it went to drag queens spreading their legs while humping the floor and now we've got "drag kids", removing clothing in front of grown adults who stuff $bills into them (seen video of this many times - started with 10yr old Desmond is Amazing performing after hours in a gay nightclub).

Many of the shows in Aus are getting cancelled due to public backlash with a number of people complaining to the venues. Just heard a report that the organizers/groomers were resorting to approaching mothers on the street and telling them about the upcoming all-ages drag show, but they were not allowed to keep the flyer or take a photo of it.

i hadn't had time to watch it.

now that i have, i can see why ppl are disgusted by it... it's gross... but worse, it's tacky. i wouldn't take my kids there.
so, tacky is worse than a grown gay man performing extremely sexual motions in front of tiny kids?

yeah, that we have the freedom to not go to it. i like freedom.
Not an argument. You have the freedom to not let your kids hang around a known pedo, but should that pedo be allowed to touch kids? Obviously not. There is a line to be drawn somewhere.

but for the same reason i wouldn't make church illegal (an arguably MUCH more harmful place than a show where dudes are twerking in tights
The only ones who would argue that are the ones obsessed by demons.

the only reason you can point to those things being in any way sexual is because you've been exposed to, or maybe even have had sex.

those kids have ZERO idea of what sex is, and dudes twerking in tights is NOT going to tell them anything about sex. a priest might, but not a public show of a dude wearing effeminate gear.
That's the point. Kids don't know what it is for a reason. They are not to be exposed to adult themes for the simple fact that they are adult themes. Maybe you've never thought about what that actually means.
You also keep referring to priests. You probably wouldn't want a priest around children because some of them happen to be pedophiles. Some drag queens are pedophiles but you have no problem with them being around children. Do you think it would be worse to take a child to church than to sexually assault them?


All of this blather about children is an intellectually dishonest and fallacious appeal to emotion; which the republicans are exploiting because they know they can't form a logical and objective rationale for discriminating against us without sleazy tugging at emotional heartstrings.
I'm centre-left and I have quite a few close gay/bi friends. You need to learn that being against the sexualisation of children is not discriminating against LGBTQ.
You are doing more damage to the "community" by attempting to protect it. There's actually a word in German for that: Verschlimmbesserung

I mean... fuck. I don't even like drag. But drag queens are part of my community and just because something is not my particular cup of tea, I'm sure as shit not going to attack or discriminate against them just for having a hobby I'm not into...
I'm not going to either. But if someone has an adult hobby then there are only certain places where it is acceptable for them to practice it.


unfortunately the debate over children and drag/ dudes in tights twerking has taken center stage.
Because the line kept getting pushed and that is where people said the line should be drawn and began to push back.
Think about it though - you and the other diehard LGBTQ activists know that this activity is majorly pissing off a lot of people. It's angering people who previously have no problem with the LGBT stuff. Do you really need drag queens to twerk around children to be considered accepted into society? Even gay people are asking you to stop supporting this stuff.
 
seen video of this many times
ewwwwww, you have???

(friendly jabs aside, if you can present some evidence of children being strippers for adults... it seems really far- fetched and hopefully very rare if true. sounds pretty sick.)

extremely sexual motions in front of tiny kids
"extremely sexual"? really? i don't remember seeing them dry humping a microphone stand or anything like elvis

(would you arrest elvis if he performed for kids? would you make it illegal for a parent to show their kid led zeppelin ii?)

The only ones who would argue that are the ones obsessed by demons.
lol, ok... sure. forget the fact that MANY MANY MANY religions have and do cover up child sexual abuse and provide environments perfect for it, not to mention stamping out critical thinking and questioning authority and pushing AWFUL and abusive ideas on kids like that a place exists where a "just and loving god" will send them to suffer for all of eternity for finite sins like premarital sex... i could go on, but i don't went to derail it TOO far here.

You probably wouldn't want a priest around children because some of them happen to be pedophiles.
no, i wouldn't want a priest around my kids because i believe religious indoctrination is child abuse. i wouldn't want my kids ALONE with ANY adult that i don't know very well because adults are sometimes fucking sickos.

you to stop supporting this stuff.
i've made my position clear, i do not support it... i just do not support you making it illegal. would you make it illegal for a kid to attend a fashion show? cause they aren't INHERENTLY sexual, but sometimes....

being against the sexualisation of children is not discriminating against LGBTQ.
i know. i'm against the sexualization of children, as well.

adult hobby
again, drag is not inherently sexual. do you consider beauty pageants to be adult hobbies? i've been sickened by child beauty pageants for almost two decades now since i first paid attention to the fact that they were happening... absolutely awful stuff... but i don't want to ban them outright.



tell ya what, if you say you want to ban child beauty pageants, i'll take you seriously on the ban children from drag shows debate.
 
"and we don't even need to pay off lobbyists because activists, insurance companies and government officials will label it "healthcare" all on their own"
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The issue isn't about adults, we've already established in this thread that nobody cares if adults want to have surgeries, it's about children being influenced to have surgeries that permanently alter them before they're even adults
 
No one is talking about jail so I'm just dismissing that straw man first.

Secondly, there have been many, many instances of lewd behavior by drag queens towards children. It's been recorded and all over the internet.

Third, a drag queen doing something g-rated and then going to their usual adult nightclub job later where they do something more r-rated is not a good role model. Their content is all over Instagram and kids know how to find them.

And finally, drag and children is intertwined with the education system which is also exposing children to inappropriate material, at least in the highly left-wing areas. It has become part and parcel with gender identity confusion being projected at children, teaching young children about masturbation, showing them lewd imagery in books and other materials, and advocating that "children can consent."

It's pretty obvious what is going on. They are grooming a generation of children to grow up and accept "minor attracted persons" by weakening the healthy boundaries that normally exist between adults and children. The writing is on the wall. I'm a gay person and I can see that it's plain as day that there is a pedophilia angle to all this. If they can consent to adult shows, surgery, and the opinion of their parents is legally irrelevant, then this is grooming.

Simply calling the opposition fascist and right-wing is mindlessly naive. People are reacting to a genuine problem.

No means no. You're going to lose this battle and take the LGB community down with you in the process. And that's why I hate people like you. LGB (and A) is about sexuality. TQ+ is about gender experiments and other weird shit that has nothing to do with gay people. Fuck off.
Can you maybe not tell people to fuck off? Thanks.
 
ewwwwww, you have???

(friendly jabs aside, if you can present some evidence of children being strippers for adults... it seems really far- fetched and hopefully very rare if true. sounds pretty sick.)
this is the first famous "drag kid" Desmond is Amazing (who was promoted on Good Morning America).
So your opinion is not really valid because you seem to be unaware of what is actually happening in the world regarding all this stuff.

"extremely sexual"? really? i don't remember seeing them dry humping a microphone stand or anything like elvis
We literally watched the same video. There was a man wearing women's underwear, buttcheeks and legs showing, rolling around the floor and spreading their legs open.
I know the standards for decency have been stretched quite far recently, but in the real world that would be considered "extremely sexual" (and kinda weird tbh).

(would you arrest elvis if he performed for kids? would you make it illegal for a parent to show their kid led zeppelin ii?)
Elvis is dead. As for the music, there is kids music created for children which they enjoy (and adults don't enjoy as much - since adults and children are different).
I'm not against showing other types of music to young children (with discretion obviously, consider lyrics etc).

lol, ok... sure. forget the fact that MANY MANY MANY religions have and do cover up child sexual abuse and provide environments perfect for it, not to mention stamping out critical thinking and questioning authority and pushing AWFUL and abusive ideas on kids like that a place exists where a "just and loving god" will send them to suffer for all of eternity for finite sins like premarital sex... i could go on, but i don't went to derail it TOO far here.
I don't disagree that organized religion is a massive problem and arguably an evil that's goal is to control people.
However with regards to religion, that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater (for eg. some churches cover-up for priests = therefore God isn't real).
Religion itself is highly beneficial for kids to learn about - if also given a choice and not forced into it.

i've made my position clear, i do not support it... i just do not support you making it illegal. would you make it illegal for a kid to attend a fashion show? cause they aren't INHERENTLY sexual, but sometimes....
If you don't support it, and you seem extremely liberal, then you need to explain why you don't.
Maybe you just don't want to state it publicly, but there's a reason you wouldn't feel comfortable taking your kids to that. And there's no good reason why those performers should have the right to be doing that in front of children. So either people like yourself need to police the behavior of others in your movement, other the actual police need to eventually step in.

i know. i'm against the sexualization of children, as well.
If you're ok with the stuff you saw happening, then where is the line for you?
What does the performer need to do specifically in order for you to consider it sexualizing children?

again, drag is not inherently sexual.
Yes it is.
It's gay men pretending to be women and performing outlandishly.

do you consider beauty pageants to be adult hobbies?
Yes.

i've been sickened by child beauty pageants for almost two decades now since i first paid attention to the fact that they were happening... absolutely awful stuff... but i don't want to ban them outright.
The only reason you've been 'sickened" by them is because it's a Republican thing.
If liberals were doing it, you'd be applauding the drag queen cabaret featured before the grand final.

tell ya what, if you say you want to ban child beauty pageants, i'll take you seriously on the ban children from drag shows debate.
Sure, I think they're weird and the target audience is basically pedos.

I like how you wait to see that I'm not a Republican before you take me seriously.
 
if adults want to do it, why not let them? there are legit trans people in the world.
If trans people were first forced to listen to what other trans and de-transitioners had to go through post-surgery..... let's just say a lot of surgeons would be making a lot less money.

 
I have friends who took their kids out of grades 1 and 3 because men dressed as women were twerking 1/2 naked in front of the class.
Teachers are leaving the profession because they won't be a part of sexual confusion and drag shows.
Anyone trying to justify 6 year Olds being exposed to that probably would have visited pedo Island with Jeff.
I didn't have sexual education class until I was 13 and then it didn't go like it do today.
Let kids keep their innocence and stop throwing mentality unstable sexual crap in their face at age 5, how anyone can justify that makes me think they're not a good person and probably on some list somewhere
I fully support gay folks but this trans/drag is making the whole community look bad.
 
lol at elon cispus musk. how the fuck is it a slur? it's a descriptor. cis and trans fat, cis and transgender humans. not really all that offensive, unless you're a transphobe.

seriously, can someone explain how it's a slur?
 
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