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⫸Trans and LGBTQIA+ Discussion⫷

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arrall said:
But that has nothing to do with their gender identity.
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Trans "men" and MTF can identify as whatever they want with their psychosis and severe mental illnesses, and personality disorders. Does this make it true or valid? Of course not, trans people do not ever change their sex or "gender" no matter how many toxic hormones they put into their bodies, or however many genital mutilations they get done.
 
JGrimez said:
This is an alternate explanation for transgenderism. This hypothesis will go over many peoples' heads - but if you know then you know:

From 'The Unquiet Dead' by Edith Fiore (1987, p. 43):


So there have been therapists over the years who have "cured" trans people by removing the obsessing spirits influencing them to live their lives in an unnatural (contrary to their biology) way. But even if this is true, it will not ever be objectively studied. It will automatically be classed as "conversion therapy" (yet the current culture is actively trying to convert people into being gender-confused). Also the goal at the moment of the industry is to make people MORE sick and confused, not to help or treat them. But basically, they're mentally and spiritually ill. Doesn't mean that they don't deserve our compassion or respect, they definitely do. But indulging their delusions is only putting women at risk and stripping away their rights (after all the work feminists went through, it's now being undone).
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I am not super religious, but I never fucked with the spirit board or ouija or occult stuff. A good gay friend who says he has experienced ghosts said how there are negative, destructive, or bad entities, spirits, energies, etc. that you do not want to invite into your life or contact.

I had asked him about gay and trans Satanists that I would read the profiles of on websites for bisexual and gay men. Many were into METH and super extreme forms of sex like being fisted not with a hand or part of an arm but two or three arms, two feet/legs, three arms, etc. I guess they have a death wish or want to destroy their bodies and wear diapers. There are satanic cults and €£$ laundering scams which are trying to align or associate with LGBTQ2S groups and now the Burglarizing Lazy Marxists. However these fools don't know that the vast majority of LGB/T/Indigenous/Black or non-white/non-European people even those who are not spiritual or religious want nothing to do with these Satanic/atheist/Marxist/Communist/Socialist cults.
 
Lovecraft said:
I mean, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone has a problem with the fact that there are people who don't feel aligned with the gender that is associated with their biological sex and happens to feel better about being alive if they live as another gender. Even if they feel the need to go all the way with it surgically. Why does it matter to anyone?

People come up with all sorts of nonsense arguments to justify their opposition, such as that if we allow people to express whatever gender of their choosing, the next thing that will happen is that people will decide they're not human and are some sort of animal. Setting aside that this is also someone's personal choice and if they have the means and resources to do that than by all means they should, a biological male that decides to live as a female can just as well take part in society and function as normally as anyone else in their careers etc.

The other thing I hear is that kids are somehow being indoctrinated to become trans by the media and teachers, which I think is absolute nonsense and can't happen; people, even young people, that don't feel aligned with their biological sex are no more confused or misguided as people who are perfectly happy living out their lives in accordance with their biological sex. They know and understand themselves and nobody's being influenced by anyone. I can't imagine ever being convinced by anyone growing up that I should perhaps identify as female, even if I was surrounded by trans people. I also have a young son and I don't worry about this in the slightest, nor see any signs of even discussing the matter in his schooling.

And the religious arguments by Christian conservatives and evangelicals is even more preposterous because the bible says all kinds of crazy shit that none of them pay attention to, like condoning slavery (the southern slaveholders actually used the bible to justify the African slave trade in US during the American Civil War), wife beating.

I mean, when I see people, intelligent people like Jordan Peterson that are disturbed by this movement, I just don't get it. People are complex and varied and we don't need to insist that everyone fit into perfect little boxes, do we?. That's obviously not the reality.
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There is a logical fallacy to your argument.

You ask why does it matter to anyone that another could be LGBT+

Why does it matter to you, the fact that it matters to someone else? This is the argument that solves itself by dying instantly.

Why does it matter to you that someone else doesn't like it? That's what I don't understand. You can't just let them be? And I mean that. Why do you care? Why would anyone become affected by the perspective or the words of another? To become affected by it (by choice), and then possibly even act out to try and silence those who say bad things about LGBT+ with words or with actions is literally the same thing you don't want done to you. It's a cycle of chaos and this must end. Let's all just be ourselves. Who gives a fuck what anyone thinks. I mean really who gives a fuck. You really care that someone else has a problem with it and expresses that? You express your viewpoint - are you saying you know everything so as to know that your viewpoint is better?

And yes, it's 100% proven without any doubt on the matter that kids are being indoctrinated, it doesn't take more than a second to google and verify this, especially with real journalism and reporting being done on the matter by groups like Project Veritas. There is no way to doubt that type of undercover journalism. That doesn't mean every single child in America is being indoctrinated. A lot are. Not all.

The logical fallacies resulting in attempts to silence and control people whose opinions you take to heart for some reason are what disturb those who are not LGBT+ themselves, not the fact that you are LGBT+. I am the 'B' in LGBT, and let me tell you - no one is going to be able to affect my life by using their words to express their perspective and their judgements on me. Why should I? Just to engage in more chaos? Let's fucking live in peace. There is no way it is not disturbing to enact laws that force people what words to say and how to speak. That's absolutely not okay. It's disturbing. Everyone should be disturbed by that attempt in controlling how people talk. That's absolutely insane, and you have to be heavily misguided or crazy not to see that it's insane, or not to see why others are disturbed by this. That is why intelligent, rational people are disturbed by the movement. It's because it's insane. There doesn't need to be any movement. Simply live. I do. You can, too. No one is going to kill you for living life without shouting LGBT+ culture every 5 seconds. Let's get back to reality, here.
 
Lol you can respond with all of the 'WTF' zonked out emojis you want, it does not change biological, genetic, and modern medical facts and the truth how trans people are always and will always be the sex/'gender' they were born, that they are biologically, and that is recorded on their birth record.


It is funny how trans claim that they were 'assigned a sex or gender' at birth, this is inaccurate. Their sex/gender was recorded after being born and in many cases before being born, and this is what they are.

The hormones, surgeries, and manipulation of children, teens, and severely mentally ill young adults is super dangerous and it is no wonder many trans people commit self-murder with hard drugs and in other ways after transitioning when they get bitch slapped with the reality that transitioning does not solve all of their mental health issues, personal problems, etc.
 
Hey people. I know this is The Dive but let's try for a better quality discussion here. We're not going to have this Jewish conspiracy nonsense on BL in any form, I don't care if you're Jewish or not. The topic is pretty clear, and it's not conspiratorial antisemitism.
 
@Dropperneck

That number is dropping. I don't think it was ever that high to begin with. People have pretended to go along with all this trans stuff out of politeness for long enough. It's clearly a dead end. People have had enough. There's been a shift in attitudes towards trans shit. Long overdue, honestly. The whole "trans movement" thing is fucking nuts.

I don't think many people actually believe trans women are women. That's probably why this senator is having a mental breakdown while she's delivering this information. She doesn't believe it, but she has to believe it. Her brain is being torn in half. She's clearly got major, crippling anxiety issues.

Internet discussion tends to revolve around extremes. Most people aren't crazy. It isn't anywhere near 30%. Not where I live, anyway. The vast majority of people around here don't believe that trans people are a thing and we're all getting sick and tired of being forced to pretend it is.

...

There's pressure on parents all of a sudden to teach kids that some boys are actually girls trapped in boys bodies.

I go to the library with my daughter every week or so and get about 20 books out... Until a couple of weeks ago, I hadn't encountered any trans or gay books at my local library. Then, we got two.

One of them was called "My Shadow is Pink" and it was about a boy who likes to wear dresses and stuff but his dad gets upset and he feels ashamed. If this book came out in the 90s, it would've just been quirky. I don't think people would've been upset about it. But, now, there's this whole narrative that "they" are pushing on our kids.

She chose the book. I didn't tell her to put it back.

The other one she chose that week was a typical "my grandad is great" book, except the grandad was gay.

That's two books out of about maybe two hundred. I've also seen a couple of episodes of (young) kids shows with gay weddings, etc. But, maybe that's not political. Maybe it's just people getting married?

edika said:
And yes, it's 100% proven without any doubt on the matter that kids are being indoctrinated
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Haven't children always been indoctrinated?
 
swilow said:
Hey people. I know this is The Dive but let's try for a better quality discussion here. We're not going to have this Jewish conspiracy nonsense on BL in any form, I don't care if you're Jewish or not. The topic is pretty clear, and it's not conspiratorial antisemitism.
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Respectfully (and I mean that, there is no negativity attached to this directed at you, I am simply expressing frustration at the mere facts), while I agree it shouldn't be discussed in this thread as it's off-topic, isn't that a little bit oppressive to deny its discussion site-wide? Although I am not one to discuss this topic, and have not engaged and will not engage in its discussion (because I'm uninterested in the matter), should we not be able to discuss any topic that sparks intellectual thought and expression sourced from our perspective on a real-world issue that has basis in factual corroborative reality? Just because we know not the extent to said basis in fact, it does not mean there is a negative connotation attached. In fact, the moment one labels it as 'conspiracy nonsense', all intellectual possibility is destroyed by the denigration. It doesn't mean it is racist or anti-semitic to simply observe real-world fact and then want to discuss it. It perpetuates the nonsensical label of 'conspiracy' (needless to say, no one in their right mind would consider this topic a conspiracy if they took the time to research so that they could have a valid thought on the matter). If this was a made up idea that had no basis in reality, then it might be a racist and/or anti-semitic perspective/concept/idea. You can cast it off and dismiss it in any light you wish, as you are a BL authority, but speaking so as to say it is conspiratorial... saying the words will never make it so in reality. This is simply a snuffing of intellectual possibility, and I believed BL was better than that, prior to joining. There are real-world issues we are not allowed to discuss - you might want to add that to the official site rules, so that no one gets banned for assuming it's okay to discuss reality in a respectful and intelligent manner. I'm honestly not sure why it's a sensitive area of discussion, so much so, that it's prohibited to be discussed. That in itself seems like a conspiracy. Again, I would understand the ban on the topic if this "anti-semitic conspiracy" was a made up idea by some guy who didn't like Jews, and the discussion were denigrating in nature. I am defending intelligent, beneficial discussion - not the right to speak lowly of anybody or to engage in 'trolling' or edgy humour.

Even if intelligently discussed - it is not allowed. That's not good. That encourages anti-semitism because an intellectual discussion has the possibility to change someone's mind who is stuck in a limiting or even destructive perspective. Denying that possibility is essentially promoting silent, repressed anti-semitism and indirectly eschewing reality for the ability to customize the aesthetic of reality. What if the discussion turned around people's perspective - rather than solidified people's negative perspective due to the intelligent discussion not existing? Real discourse by intelligent minds are how people grow to become even more intelligent. There is infinite room for ignorant discussion on the matter anywhere on the internet, but little to no real platform or space for intelligent, respectful discussion on the matter. This is indirectly promoting more cycles of negativity. Even one platform has the potential to save the world - and even changing 1 mind from negative to intelligent/positive is worth it.

Unless there is another reason for this topic ban that I am not seeing - in which case I am speaking ignorantly out of turn, in which case I humbly apologize and would appreciate your forgiveness for my ignorance on the matter.

sunday.bird said:
Haven't children always been indoctrinated?
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What kind of reasoning is that? You could say any type of speech or basic conversation is indoctrination because one is expressing a concept that has a potential to cause others to alter their perception or beliefs.

When LGBT+ erotic sex novels are being studied by kids because it's part of the curriculum, I can not pass that off as simple indoctrination. This is perversion and destruction of innocence. It doesn't matter that it's LGBT+. I would be equally concerned if it were straight themes and not LGBT+ themes. It just so happens that a lot of the fucked up shit that's being done to kids in schools and in media has an LGBT+ theme and motivation/connotation. Kids should not be exposed to creative sexual ideas. They should not be exposed to that - ever. It should be something that develops as a result of not being exposed to it at any point. Gay/straight/trans/cis themes don't enter into it - kids are innocent, they need to live in a reality that respects their sexual innocence until they decide how to grow out of innocence if they want to - not a reality that decides for them, since they are kids and EXTREMELY impressionable. It is not simple indoctrination. It is destruction. Brainwashing. It is perversion to introduce kids to creativity in the realm of sex. It doesn't matter if that sex is straight or gay. This is absolutely fucked and I feel a deep depression whenever I think about those children. Sometimes I cry thinking about it.

You can find something wrong with anything anyone says. Arguments on this subject need to end world-wide (as they simply delay the healing for victims), and focus must shift to real-life and the victims. Who cares what anyone says when kids are being permanently injured by this. They need to be saved by those that can save them. You really believe that it's not perverted to teach kids about 'being yourself' sexually? When you say to a kid "it's okay to be gay or trans and here's why", you are at the same time saying "I want you to build and create yourself sexually at this age". I wouldn't say to a kid "it's okay to be straight", because it would be saying the same thing. Let's let them grow up, and if they feel they want to be another gender or like the same gender sexually when they are older, then there is an accepting reality in which they can be themselves. Let's stop introducing sex and sexual ideas to kids, gay or straight. It's astronomically damaging. Astronomically.

It seems, in the world, wilful ignorance on the matter of sexual creativity being pushed onto kids will prevail in the short-term. Kids need acceptance for how they feel, not given ideas on how to feel and ways to channel it. Let a kid feel like a girl if he is a boy. Why do we need to push kids into our idea of acceptance, when they are perfectly capable of accepting and becoming themselves at the time they need/want to become? Because we are doing something wrong, here. The facts speak for themselves.
 
edika said:
Respectfully (and I mean that, there is no negativity attached to this directed at you, I am simply expressing frustration at the mere facts), while I agree it shouldn't be discussed in this thread as it's off-topic, isn't that a little bit oppressive to deny its discussion site-wide? Although I am not one to discuss this topic, and have not engaged and will not engage in its discussion (because I'm uninterested in the matter), should we not be able to discuss any topic that sparks intellectual thought and expression sourced from our perspective on a real-world issue that has basis in factual corroborative reality? Just because we know not the extent to said basis in fact, it does not mean there is a negative connotation attached. In fact, the moment one labels it as 'conspiracy nonsense', all intellectual possibility is destroyed by the denigration. It doesn't mean it is racist or anti-semitic to simply observe real-world fact and then want to discuss it. It perpetuates the nonsensical label of 'conspiracy' (needless to say, no one in their right mind would consider this topic a conspiracy if they took the time to research so that they could have a valid thought on the matter). If this was a made up idea that had no basis in reality, then it might be a racist and/or anti-semitic perspective/concept/idea. You can cast it off and dismiss it in any light you wish, as you are a BL authority, but speaking so as to say it is conspiratorial... saying the words will never make it so in reality. This is simply a snuffing of intellectual possibility, and I believed BL was better than that, prior to joining. There are real-world issues we are not allowed to discuss - you might want to add that to the official site rules, so that no one gets banned for assuming it's okay to discuss reality in a respectful and intelligent manner. I'm honestly not sure why it's a sensitive area of discussion, so much so, that it's prohibited to be discussed. That in itself seems like a conspiracy. Again, I would understand the ban on the topic if this "anti-semitic conspiracy" was a made up idea by some guy who didn't like Jews, and the discussion were denigrating in nature. I am defending intelligent, beneficial discussion - not the right to speak lowly of anybody or to engage in 'trolling' or edgy humour.

Even if intelligently discussed - it is not allowed. That's not good. That encourages anti-semitism because an intellectual discussion has the possibility to change someone's mind who is stuck in a limiting or even destructive perspective. Denying that possibility is essentially promoting silent, repressed anti-semitism and indirectly eschewing reality for the ability to customize the aesthetic of reality. What if the discussion turned around people's perspective - rather than solidified people's negative perspective due to the intelligent discussion not existing? Real discourse by intelligent minds are how people grow to become even more intelligent. There is infinite room for ignorant discussion on the matter anywhere on the internet, but little to no real platform or space for intelligent, respectful discussion on the matter. This is indirectly promoting more cycles of negativity. Even one platform has the potential to save the world - and even changing 1 mind from negative to intelligent/positive is worth it.

Unless there is another reason for this topic ban that I am not seeing - in which case I am speaking ignorantly out of turn, in which case I humbly apologize and would appreciate your forgiveness for my ignorance on the matter.
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I see what you're saying (I think) but Bluelight has rules which we've all agreed to, whether we genuinely believe in them or not. You can label them oppressive if you wish, but no-one is being forced to post here. It would be great if controversial topics could be addressed rationally and productively but its probably wise to remember that BL is a drug harm reduction website trying to reach as many people as possible with life saving information and this broader goal overwhelms any ideological stance regarding free debate, intellectual growth or "changing minds". We would dilute the main goals of the website by shoehorning in a secondary purpose. Beyond that, I think its naive to imagine that many participants here are actually going to change their minds when presented with counterarguments and the suggestion that 'silencing' this debate ends up promoting antisemitism seems like an unfounded claim to me. We can happily discuss almost everything here and there are plenty of places online to discuss whatever else people want.
 
If you are a man imagine scalpel cutting your dick & balls or if you are a woman imagine your tits being cut off. Wish and support for such extreme body modification/mutilation simply can’t be accepted as sane as good for anyone any anyhow.

Would I say I would never ever “change” my sex? Hell no, I’m up there, or better down there with 0.0001% insane folks who might do just about anything to fight back up and down. But even insane person like me would do that only to avoid even more terrible faith, and not many people have chance of getting into situation where sex “change” would come in as handy. Having no dick or tits to be cut of to being with, or having silicone dick and teflon balls can come in hand if you could be tortured as real torture ain’t like in the movies…. Ever got hit in a balls or gone trough labor? Hurt, hurt, hurt… So simply lighter or a match close to most sensitive part of body melts away almost any hero. Like when templars got skinned of, out of thousands only one kept stfu. How many “witches” smiled in the flame, just a few…

Well insane world it is if you consider, approve and promote torture disguised by twilight anesthesia followed by a life long fight to create some, at least still impossible, artificial equilibrium of hormonal balance and so as an end result you get a person behaving, thinking and sometimes even in a sense claiming that world tortured him/her in a as bad way as if anesthesia wasn’t used...and nothing weird about that…

You know there are trans people, but those are intersex & sexles persona and there are whole countries with just a few such persons, and that there are few cultures with somewhat bigger rate of such occurrences …. all other is bs..

Are you XX or XY might mean nothing or might mean something to you, but it’s a code, accepted and well developed, sill updated and upgraded and sometimes bugs do occur, but that shit is part of kernel and your doctor ain’t got the skills or means to rewrite it, got it!?

Consider instead of “changing” your sex, rather something like expressing strongly traces of race you want. You feel like it’s a good year to be more on a black side, melatonan it is, you feel it’s a good year to go more on a white side, bleaching it is or when you are feeling right for a special race day, why not go blue, than colloid silver it is…. Possibly just as fun roll-playing but nowhere near dangerous and sad….
 
arrall said:
This is like if somebody were to say that having sex with men “used to be a personal preference and shouldn’t require a stupid label.”
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That's a sexual orientation, ie a fixed innate attraction, not a mere 'preference' , so the comparison doesn't fly.

... And the reason I was even arguing the point in the first place is that it tends to be only a small step from 'demisexual' to claiming you can somehow be half a girl or half a boy, and from there it's generally straight to xe/xim/xer made-up novelty 'pronouns' nonsense and declaring the biological sex of a sexually dimorphic species is a 'spectrum' and there's a million fucking 'genders'. All that deluded crap only started in the past few years and now it's everywhere and I'm getting bloody allergic to it.
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
All that deluded crap only started in the past few years and now it's everywhere and I'm getting bloody allergic to it.
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Regardless of your views on non-binary gender or pronouns, why do you give a fuck what choices other people make about themselves?

This sort of transphobia mirrors the same homophobia that we faced only decades ago.
“I can’t deal with all of this homosexual deluded crap being rubbed in my face everywhere these days” is the kind of shit that intolerant idiots would’ve spouted only decades ago.
You’ve just gone and replaced the homosexuality with non-binary gender identity and pronouns.
As an LGBTQ person, you can and should do better, Fixx.
 
arrall said:
Regardless of your views on non-binary gender or pronouns, why do you give a fuck what choices other people make about themselves?

This sort of transphobia mirrors the same homophobia that we faced only decades ago.
“I can’t deal with all of this homosexual deluded crap being rubbed in my face everywhere these days” is the kind of shit that intolerant idiots would’ve spouted only decades ago.
You’ve just gone and replaced the homosexuality with non-binary gender identity and pronouns.
As an LGBTQ person, you can and should do better, Fixx.
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That is not an analogous comparison, at all.

Gay people weren’t/aren’t trying to censor people’s freedom of speech, creating a witch-hunt against people who don’t want to deny reality, encouraging the genital mutilation of children, trying to compete in women’s sports etc

If the trans lobby were just saying they want to be able to get on with their life without persecution then I don’t think many people would give a shit, most people are very willing to let people live their life however they like as long as it doesn’t impact others negatively these days. That’s not what is happening though. They want to enforce pronouns on people, they deny basic biology and want to change the way it is taught within society, they want to encourage children in to medical transition at a time when we don’t even trust them to be able to have a drink or get a tattoo without fucking up….

Obviously these are things that impact other people and so unsurprisingly plenty of people are not on board with that.

Aside from all of that, the whole concept of gender identity is somewhat madness (as well as being the creation of a known peadophile). Let’s just take it as factual that gender identity has nothing to do with biological sex (obviously wrong but let’s just go with the flow here)….well if that’s the case then someone’s gender identity is no more important than my identity as a boxing fan or a drug addict or a gym rat and in no more need of protection than any of those things.

If people want to present as something different from the way they were born great, who cares. Very few people actually give a shit about that. It’s when people want the rest of the world to deny reality as they see it (or in many cases as it objectively is) that people are getting upset. They’re not pissed off because of the way the other person is living, they’re pissed off because the other person is trying to force them to live on a certain way.

It’s got nothing to do with intolerance and everything to do with not wanting to be forced in to deny reality. That isn’t transphobic, and it’s certainly not analogous to homophobia.
 
it's always jazz jennings.

not trying to justify it or condemn it (i don't know the details nor am i a doctor), but that is still so exceedingly rare, and she was like 2 months away from being an adult.

the way you guys talk about it, you make it seem like small children are having it done, and it's like common or some shit.
 
swilow said:
Hey people. I know this is The Dive but let's try for a better quality discussion here. We're not going to have this Jewish conspiracy nonsense on BL in any form, I don't care if you're Jewish or not. The topic is pretty clear, and it's not conspiratorial antisemitism.
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Thanks for proving that there's a Jewish conspiracy by preventing a Jewish person from exposing a Jewish criminal mafia.
We can literally do that to any other group/race/religion. Examining their ideologies is not off-limits.
I shall never utter the name of your ruling tribe ever again.
 
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