Got a question for those who have recovered; when did you regain your motivation and purpose/will to live? I spend my days mindlessly scrolling, not knowing what to do with no will or passion to do anything. Just smoking and scrolling with a blank mind and finding no joy in anything. Im 3 months off 5 xeplion injections(1 150mg, 3 100mg and 1 75mg) and 2 months off my other meds(5mg abilify and 37.5 effexor). Also 7 months off from my psychosis, which was induced by cannabis and lack of sleep and probably stress. Its hard not to be suicidal or think about death in this state. I think about my past alot and it bothers me how I didnt spend my youth better(Im 24). Im looking for hope, just want to make something out of myself but it seems impossible right now and Im afraid Im gonna stay like this forever.
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Mental Health Coming off Invega (Paliperidone, Xeplion) injections v. 7.0
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Merek
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I recovered from invega sustenna but my will to live is gone again it came back 5 months off the injections then stayed back for a little less then 4 months, I’m back into a psychotic state, I can relate a ton to wishing I spent my youth better, I had the ability and talents to be a professional track runner if I put my mind too it but then when my early teens rolled around I did a ton of drugs and other dumb shit due to past truamas and fell down the rabbit hole which eventually slowly drove me mad over the years, adding invega sustenna too the mix of all this definitely wasn’t helpful either, you might be able to make something out of yourself idk what your situation is like but it may be fixable maybe think about the best solutions for yourself and try pushing yourself to make your life better you may be happy you did later on.
If you are in psychosis you wouldnt know you were in psychosis. Are you getting enough sleep? Are you still on drugs? Or do you just have weird thoughs that you think are delusions? Honestly thinking you have a guardian angel isnt that weird if you believe in God...
Month 6 my anhedonia started decreasing but for most people its month 7 the end of month 7 when the anhedonia is gone you instantly get back the motivation and will to live. You might considering dropping the effexor and abilify because it will prolong anhedonia. I'm 6 months off abilify injections but suffer worse anhedonia than i did 6 months off invega injections. Even 5 mg of abilify is enough to prolong it
As I said Im already off abilify and effexor, the private psychiatrist I went to said I should get back on the AD but It didnt do shit for me, the regular Pdoc I go to says I should go back on 10mg of abilify because its a partial agonist but I dont believe a thing she tells me. She told me If we lower the dose of invega or discontinue it that I would go right back into psychosis, what a lying bitch.
Merek doesn't have psychosis he watched too many gangbangs on kratom and got shooked :S :D
Merek
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I stopped taking drugs, but haven’t improved and have had insomnia, I did take melatonin and slept 7 hours last night I feel better rn but still don’t have the will to live, nah there’s more too it then that I believed a demon possessed me and that the demon killed one of my friends in November since he was gonna tell me a secret about the universe, now I’m starting to hallucinate too yesterday night I was walking around and saw blue and red lights thinking it was the cops it was so vivid I turned around and nothing was there I was like the fuck is happening.
Merek
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If that was all there was too it I’d be completely fine with that lmao but the thought of psychosis relapse on the horizon and knowing how the system would handle it in my mind im like fuck no starting to get hella paranoid.Merek doesn't have psychosis he watched too many gangbangs on kratom and got shooked :S :D
Merek
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I’ve been going in and out of psychotic states, I know I’ve been psychotic the last few days, invega sustenna can cause psychosis for some people too yk.
Sounds like rebound pychosis carefull with that shit...maybe take high dosages of cbd
Dont go through the system again they will never say its a rebound because of the meds they will diagnose you with schizo
Merek
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Yes, perhaps using acid and weed to speed up the process of me brain rewiring from invega cane back to bite me in the ass, I’m not tryna say these drugs are bad for you but if you’re coming off anti psychotics you really gotta be careful with them, I’ve considered driving to the hospital but I’m not gonna do that cause I know if I do I’ll probably walk out in worse condition then when I came in.
Kaatrina
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No I guess that's fine I thought you were talking about kitten stomping or some shit
I got back into my hobbies like gardening cooking and baking around month 10 although it was a struggle at times
Angels play into my delusions a lot & it's not always a good thing, it makes you think there's a bunch of shit around you you can't see or a bunch of messages for you that you need to decipher (and if you do "decipher" them you think they're 100% true, even if they could be something bad or dangerous)
Kaatrina
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Call a mental health crisis line and tell them all your feelings about bad reactions to meds, just talking to someone or going somewhere to rest can help you but letting this ride can get you to a point where you need to be restrained or worse shot up involuntarily
Merek
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Not a bad idea I was also gonna get some benzos if I can.
Funnily enough I do smoke a bit here and there when my friend offers and its always weird but I do get my thoughts back a bit but theyre mostly introspective and maybe a bit paranoid. I probably shouldnt go down that road again but its hard when youre blank minded.
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I personally am staunchly against Invega and the unnecessary use of other APs, and I have made that abundantly clear in many of my posts. The number one reason that I check through this thread every day is to make sure that all contributing members are doing okay, that no one is actively suicidal, and then the secondary reason I am so active in this thread is to ensure that all contributors are abiding by the posting rules and to keep the thread on-topic and running smoothly.
I can't speak for the other mods (although I know their stances on Invega and other APs, their use and misuse in patients, and the state of mental health treatment system) but personally I am a huge advocate for you guys, and I want you all to get well and to be well. So again, it is insulting to wrongly accuse us staff members of having the opposite agenda to you all, because that is so far from the truth.
Thank you so much for taking the time to post all of this informationI think it's important to post the data in relation to the discussion we'd been having on neuroleptics. The idea that peer support or non-neuroleptic treatment doesn't show good long term results is common but a result of effective industry messaging rather than the study of actual data.
A chart showing the increase in the disabled mentally ill since APs were introduced in the 60s
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Image Screenshot-20230510-033436-Chrome hosted in ImgBBibb.co
Chart showing 60%+ of hospitalized patients receiving good outcomes after treatment in time periods before neuroleptics were introduced
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70%+ functional outcome (not disabled) after open dialog therapy in Finland. 67% never relapsed, 79% asymptomatic after five year follow up. Also shows similar results from Soteria (peer support) houses (rare in the US). There is actually a peer support house in my new city that I plan to go to if I ever experience problems again. I feel at this point that by moving and removing myself from my unhealthy family dynamic I may not ever be psychotic again.
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A comparison of long term recovery rates for patients on and off APs. This is brutal. Chances of recovery on APs are less than 5%. You are 8x more likely to recover if not using APs. Guess if you choose the med route you gotta have a lot of "willpower" to be in that 5%.
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Chart shows the rise in all-cause mortality rates among the mentally ill. Does "willpower" protect you from sudden cardiac death? Asking for a friend.
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Chart shows clinically negligible results in depression results over time with AD use in comparison to placebo. Much like AP use, time will cause recovery whether you are on the drugs or not.
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Most of this data can be seen in this paper that I linked https://www.madinamerica.com/2023/04/white-paper-against-forced-treatment/
One wonders why, if APs are so damaging and peer support so much more effective, the industry is shaped the way it is. Unfortunately it does seem as if psycjoatry has become a cooperative effort in hand with the drug industry iver the years. We can look at cases of what happens to psychs who speak put against the ineffectiveness of the med model.
"The authors of the Cochrane review, which pointed out that we don’t have evidence that psychosis drugs in an acute early episode of schizophrenia is effective,154 included a randomised trial by Loren Mosher in their review.250 Mosher compared 55 patients in hospital, all of whom received psychosis drugs, with 45 patients treated in a non-hospital milieu where 67% did not receive psychosis drugs, and the results after six weeks were virtually the same.
Mosher wasn’t against using psychosis drugs.7:168 He opened a 12-room Soteria house in 1971, as he wanted to treat acutely psychotic people in a humanistic way with empathy and caring. There were no locks on the doors, and the idea was to treat people with respect.
His staff were not mental health professionals but people who had social skills and empathy and who listened to the patients’ stories, which often revealed traumas with abuse and extreme social failure.251 Thus, Mosher paved the way for the Open Dialogue approach (see Chapter 7, Part Three).
The good results obtained by Mosher, also after the randomised trial, by avoiding using psychosis drugs were too threatening to other psychiatrists.1 His patients had fewer relapses and functioned better in society in terms of holding a job and attending school than those on drugs. It was offensive to the psychiatrists to suggest that ordinary people could help crazy people more than psychiatrists with their drugs. But Mosher was the chief of the Center for Studies of Schizophrenia at the US National Institute of Mental Health, so it wasn’t obvious how he could be stopped.
The NIMH clinical project committee raised doubts about the scientific rigour of his research team and reduced the funding for Mosher’s project to such a low level that it was a financial kiss of death.1 This is the standard method used in healthcare by those who hold the power when the results of a project threaten the status quo and their carefully pruned self-image. Mosher tried to get around the obstacle by applying for funding from the NIMH division that dealt with social services, and the peer review committee was very enthusiastic. However, the clinical projects committee killed his project right off, as it threatened the very credibility of academic psychiatry with its medical model of drug therapy. This was done with derogatory remarks about the study’s postulated “serious flaws” and with the fatal blow that further funding would only come forward if Mosher stepped down so that the committee could redesign the project with another investigator.
This is one of the ugliest manoeuvres I have ever seen being used against a high-ranked investigator who was a treasure for the patients, and a bitter Mosher said 25 year later: “If we were getting outcomes this good, then I must not be an honest scientist.”1:224 The NIMH made Mosher an outcast and threw him out of the NIMH three years later. Others in America who questioned the merits of psychosis pills learned quickly that this would not advance their career, and NIMH did not allot any more funds to this type of project.5 Many years later, the first author on the Cochrane review analysed the follow-up data from Mosher’s study and discovered that they were even more positive than what Mosher had published.1:225
Psychotherapy for schizophrenia seems to be cost-effective. According to a NICE guideline from 2012, a systematic review of the economic evidence showed that cognitive behavioural therapy improved clinical outcomes at no additional cost, and economic modelling suggested that it might result in cost savings because of fewer hospital admissions.252
It wasn’t until 2014 that the first trial of psychotherapy in people with schizophrenia who were not on drugs was published.253 All the patients had declined to be treated with drugs. The effect size was 0.46 compared to treatment as usual, about the same as that seen in seriously flawed trials comparing psychosis pills with placebo, which is a median of 0.44.254
This means that the effect of psychotherapy is likely better than the effect of pills.US Psychiatrist Peter Breggin has described what a remarkable effect empathy, caring and understanding can have in patients with severe schizophrenia.135 As an 18-year old college freshman without mental health training, he volunteered at a state mental hospital and approached the patients as he would want himself to be approached, with care and concern, and with a desire to get to know the patients and finding out what they needed and wanted.
He was immediately appalled by how abused and humiliated the patients were by the authoritarian and sometimes violent staff, and by the brain-damaging treatments they used, including insulin coma therapy, electroshock, and lobotomy, all the while he was told that these treatments “killed bad brain cells,” which he found unlikely to be true of course.
Breggin developed an aide programme in which 15 students were assigned their own patient among those who were chronic inmates considered beyond help—burnt out schizophrenics—who had not yet been subdued by chlorpromazine. They were able to help 11 of the 15 patients to return home or to find improved placements in the community. During the next one to two years only three patients returned to the hospital.
Breggin’s programme drew national headlines and was praised as an important innovation by the Joint Commission on Mental Illness and Health in 1961. This was the last psychosocially oriented document to be issued by the NIMH. Ever since, the focus has been on co-operative efforts with the drug industry to promote biochemical explanations and drugs."
I also wanted to talk about what stopped me from getting help in my second psychosis. A big reason was that I didn't want to accept the label "schizophrenic". If I got help, that meant that there must be something wrong with me. I wanted to deny that fact. Now I know that just because you experience psychosis doesn't mean you are schizophrenic, despite what we are told. After a year of therapy my therapist assured me that I was not schizophrenic. At one point I talked to another therapist, who assured me that because I had been psychotic twice that I would always be on the "schizophrenic spectrum", no matter what I did. What this labeling does is dilute the term "schizophrenic". It makes no sense to label me, a functional, normal human, with the same label as the babbling man on the street like Jordan Neely or our friend a few posts earlier whose 20+ injections turned his brain into the moon. This dilution harms out ability to understand ourselves - much like autism, now many levels of social unawareness can be described with the same word used to diagnose the nonverbal kid rocking in the corner. It doesn't seem feasible and I reject the expansion of the terms in some ways.
The other big reason I didn't get help when I was worried about relapsing onto psychosis was I was deathly afraid of psychs, hospitals, and drugs. I didn't ever want to approach any place that carried any risk of harming me with a drug like invega ever again. I viewed these institutions as places of harm. These feelings exacerbated my episode greatly once I was placed in hospital. It's sort of a catch-22. If I hadn't been unable to stop screaming because I was scared of invega, I wouldn't have been involuntarily shot with Haldol. That's why I believe that it's vital to approach someone , even over the phone , while you can still express all of these fears. A lot of people DO want to help and some CAN understand about drug harms. I found out after my second psychosis that there are psychs that you can talk to about drug harms who will believe you. It's necessary to recovery to be able to stabilize yourself through psychosis in the safest way possible so that you can get on with your life.
Forcefully drugging people against their will is NOT fine and dandy, that's why these Invega threads exist in the first place, and that's why we're up to version 7, because we want to give you guys a safe space to talk about what you're all suffering through.
You might enjoy watching that shit, but most people don't, therefore those videos are not welcome in this thread, or anywhere else on Bluelight.
Yes, AlphaMethylPhenyl has actually had various antipsychotics (I am not 100% sure which ones so I won't speak for him on this) but he REALLY knows his stuff when it comes to neuropharmocology, that's one of the reasons he is a TDS mod. He really knows his shit, both from personal experience AND from research. Therefore I would think that would give him MORE credibility on the topic of Invega, not LESS.....don't you think??
Actually, a lot of people who are in tune with their mental illness do actually know when they are going in to psychosis or fully in psychosis.
I was actually going to say, but I wasn't sure if it was my place or if my opinion would be welcome, that perhaps your use of psychedelics and weed may be catching up with you and causing you to fall in to psychosis again. Does that resonate at all?
See, why is it accepted for you to recommend someone call a mental health worker to talk about what they're experiencing (which someone, I think @Merek then was quick to say that I was suggesting "talk therapy" as a treatment option for schizophrenia, which was not what I was saying at all), yet when I suggested the exact same thing you slammed me for not knowing what it's like and told me to "keep my judgement to myself" purely because I don't have schizophrenia....? That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think? I do actually know A LOT about mental health and various options available for people in immediate crisis. Please don't be so quick to shut me and the other mods down in the future when we try to make suggestions to help you guys. We are actually on your side.
Merek
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Nah your opinion is welcome feel free to speak your mind about me whether I agree with you or not I won’t take offense to it I don’t care what others think of me at all, yes you have a point although I strongly believe acid and weed alone didn’t directly give me psychosis I believe it hasn’t helped when crises come around and really amplifies everything making it more intense I’m really considering quitting that shit for life, I also had a marijuana induced psychosis my freshman year of high school over 4 years ago, I didn’t need to be hospitalized for it but it was pretty bad nowhere near as bad as my previous psychosis last summer though.I personally am staunchly against Invega and the unnecessary use of other APs, and I have made that abundantly clear in many of my posts. The number one reason that I check through this thread every day is to make sure that all contributing members are doing okay, that no one is actively suicidal, and then the secondary reason I am so active in this thread is to ensure that all contributors are abiding by the posting rules and to keep the thread on-topic and running smoothly.
I can't speak for the other mods (although I know their stances on Invega and other APs, their use and misuse in patients, and the state of mental health treatment system) but personally I am a huge advocate for you guys, and I want you all to get well and to be well. So again, it is insulting to wrongly accuse us staff members of having the opposite agenda to you all, because that is so far from the truth.
Thank you so much for taking the time to post all of this information
Forcefully drugging people against their will is NOT fine and dandy, that's why these Invega threads exist in the first place, and that's why we're up to version 7, because we want to give you guys a safe space to talk about what you're all suffering through.
You might enjoy watching that shit, but most people don't, therefore those videos are not welcome in this thread, or anywhere else on Bluelight.
Yes, AlphaMethylPhenyl has actually had various antipsychotics (I am not 100% sure which ones so I won't speak for him on this) but he REALLY knows his stuff when it comes to neuropharmocology, that's one of the reasons he is a TDS mod. He really knows his shit, both from personal experience AND from research. Therefore I would think that would give him MORE credibility on the topic of Invega, not LESS.....don't you think??
Actually, a lot of people who are in tune with their mental illness do actually know when they are going in to psychosis or fully in psychosis.
I was actually going to say, but I wasn't sure if it was my place or if my opinion would be welcome, that perhaps your use of psychedelics and weed may be catching up with you and causing you to fall in to psychosis again. Does that resonate at all?
See, why is it accepted for you to recommend someone call a mental health worker to talk about what they're experiencing (which someone, I think @Merek then was quick to say that I was suggesting "talk therapy" as a treatment option for schizophrenia, which was not what I was saying at all), yet when I suggested the exact same thing you slammed me for not knowing what it's like and told me to "keep my judgement to myself" purely because I don't have schizophrenia....? That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think? I do actually know A LOT about mental health and various options available for people in immediate crisis. Please don't be so quick to shut me and the other mods down in the future when we try to make suggestions to help you guys. We are actually on your side.
Kaatrina
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You told him that he was doing wrong by living a "chaotic" life with an "untreated" mental illness. You didnt say anything about a crisis line. Your opinion on his life wasnt helpful. He wasnt experiencing psychosis or in crisis. He had a stable job. He was just upset that you wouldnt let him post music or talk about how weed helped him. Merek is actively trying to kill himself. Hopefully you can see that difference.
You picking fights with me all the time makes me feel super safe. Get over that I don't like your heavy handed modding & your unwanted opinions and let it go, not everyone has to like or agree with you just because you're a mod & I will speak out when mods take potshots at the mental health of users who need the most help
HelpMeInvega
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Merek
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Ya if I gotta take APS short term I might, I’m most definitely not taking them long term though under any circumstance, it would be a good safety measure to have some on hand, gonna try benzos first though.
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