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⫸Trans and LGBTQIA+ Discussion⫷

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swilow said:
I largely agree that children/under 18s shouldn't be offered hormones or surgery unless it's absolutely essential, but why should any adult be prevented from taking hormones or doing what they want with their body? 35 seems like a strangely arbitrary age to choose.
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Yeah I agree with 35 being too high of an age. Otherwise I agree with his post

So what's an acceptable age, 18, maybe 20?
 
swilow said:
I largely agree that children/under 18s shouldn't be offered hormones or surgery unless it's absolutely essential, but why should any adult be prevented from taking hormones or doing what they want with their body? 35 seems like a strangely arbitrary age to choose.
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People change a lot in their 20s, and trans people I have known or am friends with, the ones who transitioned after age 30 have less issues than people who transition much younger. I added 5 years for late bloomer types.
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
People change a lot in their 20s, and trans people I have known or am friends with, the ones who transitioned after age 30 have less issues than people who transition much younger. I added 5 years for late bloomer types.
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Fair enough. I thought you were talking about legality but I guess not?
 
I am just trying to say that nothing has suddenly changed in trans people at some point, but that they have been always other gender than they are assigned to
I am also argumenting that while some people have sense of being born in wrong body, some people insist that they have mysteriously gained some kind of a mind virus that has emerged from seemingly nothing that they are born in wrong body
For several reasons, I have much more trust to former folks
Even several ancient tribal cultures have had assigned roles for trans people, which tells a story of this being phenomenon repeating always and everywhere in human species, not depending on mind virus, politics and stuff
Trans people being pretty much as logical and coherent and sane than any other guy tells me I have no reason to believe they are out of their mind, but that there is so much more to gender than what is commonly thought
While I am not trans, having had deep rejection of my assigned gender that is filled with countless norms, confirms this perception-for me, at least
 
swilow said:
You don't think adults should be able to choose what they do with their bodies? Does that extend to drug use?
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It depends upon what it is they want to do. I don't use drugs anymore but if adults want to take drugs that is their personal choice.

There needs to be many more legal hurdles people seeking or who want a sex change operation go through:
1. Many hours of counseling or therapy, and not only by gender/trans therapists, at trans clinics, etc. No surgery or hormones given to anyone who is a teen or child unless it is actually completely medically necessary.

2. Years or decades of living as the sex they are genetically, biological, and will always be, go through puberty, have sex as a mature adult with other adults, etc.

3. They watch many hours of videos of sex change operations, get told of the many dangerous and negative aspects of the surgery and dangers of taking hormomes and are told that taking hormones and having surgery will permanently change their body, can make life and sex worse, and that the hormomes and sex change surgeries are not going to magically improve or somehow get rid of all of their mental health issues, personal life issues, etc. and that they will always be the sex they were born, the sex change surgery does not actually really give them the genitals or body of the opposite sex, etc.

3.That if they do decide to transition that people using their former name, and people using the wrong terms or words to describe them are going to happen, that it is not traumatic, and how people change with time and education.
 
@PriestTheyCalledHim

I'm not sure how you can have such a liberal view towards drugs and not towards transition. Its inconsistent.

I actually agree that there needs to be much more psychological screening/counselling before transition. In many instances, gender affirmation seems to be the opposite of what good therapy should be. It seems very likely that the apparent recent surge in those identifying as trans is at least partly the result of social contagion and trained adult professionals should be on the alert for those cases.

But it seems wildly authoritarian to prevent adults from doing what they choose with their lives. I can follow some of your logic, but that part of it just seems like hypocrisy.
 
I don't know, @swilow.

I think what Priest is saying is people should be making informed decisions?

This (for me) applies to lots of elective surgeries, not just sexual reassignment.

I regret having one surgery in particular that I believe - in retrospect - was recommended simply because the surgeon wanted to make money. I don't believe he had my best interest at heart.

Most of what Priest is saying is it shouldn't be done to kids and adults should be very clearly informed of the consequences. I think that's reasonable.

Adults choosing what they do with their bodies isn't what is happening. These are expensive (read: highly profitable) medical procedures.

The question is (IMO) whether or not surgeons should be allowed to operate on people without adequate vetting.

PriestTheyCalledHim said:
For legality it should definitely be at least 30.
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For the record: I think putting a number on it - like 30 - is silly.

I'm honestly not 100% sure I think the procedures should be legal at all... nor do I think people should be profiting from inserting cosmetic implants in the name of happiness.

You don't need to cut yourself to be happy. That's not something we (as a society) should be encouraging.

For me the problem is not whether people should be allowed to do what they want. The problem is: it shouldn't be legal.

I apply the same logic to drug legality. Lots of people on here think all drugs should be legal. Presumably you also think all cosmetic procedures should be legal?



There's a difference between freedom and sick profiteering freaks conducting horrendous experiments on mentally ill people.
 
skipjames said:
delirant product of a tiny but very vocal fanatical minority
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This brings up another topic that's really been annoying me lately. The internet naturally highlights these extreme opinions, and then everyone seems to get automatically associated with it.

I consider myself a center left moderate Democrat, and while discussing issues conservatives always assume I agree with the most extreme far left opinions. Likewise, many liberals think conservatives all agree with the most extreme far right opinions.

It's not healthy for debate or society in general. Everything has nuance.

skipjames said:
For instance as far as I know in this discussion there are only gay or bisexual or straight cis men with the exception of a brief appearance of a MtF trans. It would be interesting to hear what the trans members of BL (FtM or MtF) have to say about this (non ) issue. Transexual BLuelighters, manifest yourself!
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I would like that too, but all of them seem to think BL supports transphobia because we allow different opinions (this was a huge headache and mod drama awhile back). Eli is the only one I've seen actually debate here as a trans person, but he kinda took it to an extreme.

I'd like to see more trans people in general stick up to those with different views, most just seem to scream transphobia and then leave the conversation.

I've seen this Vaush person on social media, they seem to be quite popular but I don't follow them. He/she (I don't even know) debates 'transphobes' on social media and often destroys them with basic logic.
 
Dropperneck said:
www.lifenews.com

Former Planned Parenthood Director Commits Suicide After Police Raid His Home in Child Porn Case - LifeNews.com

A former Planned Parenthood director suspected of child pornography crimes was found dead by suicide Tuesday in New Haven, Connecticut, according to local authorities. The Blaze reports Tim Yergeau, 35, of New Haven, reportedly killed himself five days after police raided his apartment as part...
www.lifenews.com
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what does this have to do with translgbtq+ though ?
 
i literally KNOW people that have gone there for health care that had nothing to do with abortions... one of them was a 12 y.o. girl that was harassed by a buncha crazy pro- forced- birther a- holes.
 
This is not surprising at all.

Employee at child gender affirming clinic says puberty blockers WORSEN child DEPRESSION

www.msn.com

More magical thinking and made up theory which is what transsexualism/transgenderism is:
nypost.com

UT Southwestern teaches med students that ‘gender is independent of physical structure, chromosomes, or genes’

Documents obtained by Fox News Digital show that University of Texas Southwestern medical students are being taught that gender is independent of physical structure.
nypost.com nypost.com
 
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