Has anyone ever given up alcohol by switching to cocaine?

[Heroes Inc.]

You can also end up blowing a major amount of money too. People have blown millions on this combo.

Millions? Woah man.. just woah. I’ve managed to keep it around 300k

 

[Heroes Inc.]

Just so you know, consuming literally 5% of a single beer (~1g of ethanol), 1 gulp, is enough to convert 20% of a cocaine dose into cocaethylene. So you literally need to have ZERO alcohol to avoid the metabolism into cocaethylene.

Wow I never knew this. Thanks for the info, Snafu

 

[Heroes Inc.]

@Mr. Krinkle your still in DA NILE.. how's that river flowing.. you have to be joking. Unless that coke bar had the worst coke in the hemisphere.

EDIT: were you the dopeman K.

I have tried a similar "strategy" in the last three months, substituting oxys with coke and it was a MESS; never acted so out of character, never felt so lost and on the verge of mental breakdown, never did and said so many bullshits at home and at work etc, I went back to oxys just to calm myself down and find some peace!ç
There s a good chance that when the comedown will hit you you ll go back to booze . Plus as has been already said coke and alcohol feel great together, so definitely a bad idea , especially if you are drinking daily and plan to do coke daily, which is generally both economically and mentally unsustainable (even if like me you live in South America hence have access to decent-good coke at affordable prices, but I think that is not your case).

Wow..
This hit close to home for me. I convinced myself that I was going to use coke to ween off oxys. Yea, that didn’t go so well. I was a mess. Good news is, like you, I’m done with the coke now. I don’t feel the urge to drink anymore (because yes, coke and alcohol of course go hand in hand. As a matter of fact, I find it kind of strange to NOT drink while on blow). I’m fighting to taper down on the oxys, I’m taking too much. My primary care doc doesn’t mind me taking 20-30mg daily of oxys. No more than that though (I have a chrohns disease). I have used this disease as an excuse to use drugs my entire life.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I love your gung ho attitude, but I question if you've ever experienced schizophrenia or psychosis.

And I'm not talking about a cute little temporary 4th day meth binge psychosis.

Psychosis can create permanent neurological changes. Google it.

Plus, encouraging people who have experienced psychosis to "grow some balls and keep doing drugs" is horrible advice.

Have you been diagnosed with long-term psychosis? I didn't read anywhere in your posts that you have been diagnosed with long-term psychosis.

Also, I think you're referring to this study:

Kennisgeving voor omleiding

www.google.com

While it is true that there are significant brain changes within two years of the brain transitioning to a state of psychosis, those changes plateau after 2 years. There is no consensus whether some organic process caused the brain changes that led to psychosis prior to diagnosis, or if psychosis caused the structural changes to the brain. There is also no established science that shows short-term psychosis lead to long-term permanent changes in the brain. They're just aren't.

It is well documented that lithium causes structural changes to the brain, most neurologists think these structural changes is what causes the antidepressant and antipsychotic effects of lithium.

So it's very clear that even in psychotic patients the brain is plastic or else lithium would not remodel the brain.

It is established medical fact that structural changes in the brain caused by toxoplasmosis from cats causes schizophrenia.

We also know that disease states can cause psychosis, infectious disease.

So I'm of the opinion, along with the majority of neurologists, that some causative factor that changes the structure of the brain is actually the proximal cause of long-term psychosis and not the other way around.

If MDMA or other stimulants are not a known and documented cause for medical professional diagnosed psychosis in you or anyone else, there's no harm in saying man up and take your drugs.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you been diagnosed with long-term psychosis? I didn't read anywhere in your posts that you have been diagnosed with long-term psychosis.

Also, I think you're referring to this study:

Kennisgeving voor omleiding

www.google.com

While it is true that there are significant brain changes within two years of the brain transitioning to a state of psychosis, those changes plateau after 2 years. There is no consensus whether some organic process caused the brain changes that led to psychosis prior to diagnosis, or if psychosis caused the structural changes to the brain. There is also no established science that shows short-term psychosis lead to long-term permanent changes in the brain. They're just aren't.

It is well documented that lithium causes structural changes to the brain, most neurologists think these structural changes is what causes the antidepressant and antipsychotic effects of lithium.

So it's very clear that even in psychotic patients the brain is plastic or else lithium would not remodel the brain.

It is established medical fact that structural changes in the brain caused by toxoplasmosis from cats causes schizophrenia.

We also know that disease states can cause psychosis, infectious disease.

So I'm of the opinion, along with the majority of neurologists, that some causative factor that changes the structure of the brain is actually the proximal cause of long-term psychosis and not the other way around.

If MDMA or other stimulants are not a known and documented cause for medical professional diagnosed psychosis in you or anyone else, there's no harm in saying man up and take your drugs.

Ffs dude. There are plenty of studies in which clinically diagnosed psychosis, schizophrenia or brain damage cause permanent alteration of the brain.

Yes, I was in psychosis for over 14 months straight. Initially diagnosed as psychosis and after 9 months that diagnosis was changed to schizophrenia which is more in line with criteria.

No, I wasn't referring to "that study" but my own damn personal and objective experience.

Stop reading various things on the internet and trying to suggest you know more about my brain than I do.

I don't understand this armchair contrarianism you have. Every post you're just trying to prove someone wrong... including their own mental illness.

 

[Jabberwocky]

So I'm of the opinion, along with the majority of neurologists, that some causative factor that changes the structure of the brain is actually the proximal cause of long-term psychosis and not the other way around.

If MDMA or other stimulants are not a known and documented cause for medical professional diagnosed psychosis in you or anyone else, there's no harm in saying man up and take your drugs.

I was diagnosed by a neurologist...

Neither MDMA nor stimulants were involved in my case.

A lot of times you can't pinpoint one singular causative factor. In my case, various drugs combined with other significant factors like chronic sleep deprivation, malnutrition and extreme stress all played roles.

Man, you can't just read various studies online and then place your own opinion alongside an actual neurologist.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I was diagnosed by a neurologist...

Neither MDMA nor stimulants were involved in my case.

A lot of times you can't pinpoint one singular causative factor. In my case, various drugs combined with other significant factors like chronic sleep deprivation, malnutrition and extreme stress all played roles.

Man, you can't just read various studies online and then place your own opinion alongside an actual neurologist.

Then why would you say it's a horrible idea to tell somebody to man up and take their drugs just because they had psychosis?

That's what psychiatrists do all the time.

And I'm sorry for your past medical issues, but there's no consistent definitive proof, that psychosis causes permanent changes to the brain.

In fact, we know that the brain is always healing, damage and changing its shape. That is a documented definitive effect even in people with brain damage.

So No, no no no! It is not established that any brain damage, even from psychosis (if it exists) is permanent. It's just not the case.

In fact, there's giant boatloads of evidence to the contrary. Sorry that you've decided your brain is permanently damaged. Don't transfer that to other people.

Even in people that have multiple sclerosis, where the body's immune system attacks its own myelin sheath, the brain heals and regenerates.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Then why would you say it's a horrible idea to tell somebody to man up and take their drugs just because they had psychosis?

That's what psychiatrists do all the time.

I honestly can't tell if you're joking.

In the context of the conversation we were talking about psychedelics, psychoactive drugs and various other psychotogenic drugs.

You also so gracefully put it as "stop being a bitch about your psychosis and keep doing drugs"

This is a harm reduction forum and honestly that's one of the most stupid comments I've ever read on this forum.

And I'm sorry for your past medical issues, but there's no consistent definitive proof, that psychosis causes permanent changes to the brain.

Psychosis is a criteria of symptoms, not a cause.

You're making some argument I don't think you fully understand yourself.

You're basically saying "memory loss" doesn't cause "brain damage", when in reality it's the opposite that occurs.

But sure buddy, keep telling me all about my mental illness and neurological condition.

You know absolutely nothing about me or what happened to me and you're convinced you know more than I do about my own brain.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I honestly can't tell if you're joking.

In the context of the conversation we were talking about psychedelics, psychoactive drugs and various other psychotogenic drugs.

You also so gracefully put it as "stop being a bitch about your psychosis and keep doing drugs"

This is a harm reduction forum and honestly that's one of the most stupid comments I've ever read on this forum.


Psychosis is a criteria of symptoms, not a cause.

You're making some argument I don't think you fully understand yourself.

You're basically saying "memory loss" doesn't cause "brain damage", when in reality it's the opposite that occurs.

But sure buddy, keep telling me all about my mental illness and neurological condition.

You're the one that said psychosis causes permanent changes to the brain.

I challenge that statement for not being factual. In fact, the brain is always healing, damage and changing structure. It is extremely plastic. This is a documented scientific fact.

Go back and read what you posted.

Furthermore, the person that I posted it to didn't have any actual diagnosis. They only had a belief that something was wrong with them.

The majority of people that have these issues after they take some kind of substance once. It's because they're suffering from self-inflicted PTSD from some belief that something is wrong with them when they're really isn't, especially when doctors can't find anything like in the case of the person that i said "stop being a b**** man up and take your drugs" to.

I stand by that statement, it's not harmful.

The person in question was committing self-harm by deluding themselves into the belief that something was wrong with them even though doctors couldn't find anything wrong with them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Well then I guess this statement isn't harmful; stop being a bitchy narcissistic idiot and click this link

Psychosis Permanent Damage

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'Psychosis permanent damage' themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

Wow! I clicked on your link and guess what? None of the answers say that it does.

Like I said, there's no documented scientific evidence that psychosis on its own causes permanent brain damage.

You Are completely wrong.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Wow! I clicked on your link and guess what? None of the answers say that it does.

Like I said, there's no documented scientific evidence that psychosis on its own causes permanent brain damage.

You Are completely wrong.

“The more relapses and episodes a person has, the more we see that it can permanently change their brain function and structure,” says Tso.

When FEP goes untreated, approximately 10 to 12 cc of brain tissue—basically a tablespoon of cells and myelin—could be permanently damaged.

How Does Untreated Psychosis Lead to Neurological Damage? - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

New Insight Into Brain’s Attempts at Psychosis Recovery - Neuroscience News

Tissue in specific brain areas increases in patients with psychosis, even before they receive treatment.

neurosciencenews.com

Psychotic disorders such as psychosis are often characterized as progressively worsening, with the brain deteriorating as the condition recurs through time.


...literally the first few google results.

 

[Jabberwocky]

“The more relapses and episodes a person has, the more we see that it can permanently change their brain function and structure,” says Tso.

When FEP goes untreated, approximately 10 to 12 cc of brain tissue—basically a tablespoon of cells and myelin—could be permanently damaged.

How Does Untreated Psychosis Lead to Neurological Damage? - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

New Insight Into Brain’s Attempts at Psychosis Recovery - Neuroscience News

Tissue in specific brain areas increases in patients with psychosis, even before they receive treatment.

neurosciencenews.com

Psychotic disorders such as psychosis are often characterized as progressively worsening, with the brain deteriorating as the condition recurs through time.


...literally the first few google results.

I think you may be in psychosis yourself. Or you're just too narcissistic to entertain the idea that what you believe is not totally correct.

And none of that is caused by psychosis.

The consensus is that organic processes in the brain are causing the psychosis and the damage. If it was permanent, people wouldn't be cured of psychosis and overwhelmingly they are. Antipsychotics change the disease state. If that wasn't true, you'd still be psychotic.

But that's what your citations actually say anyway.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And none of that is caused by psychosis.

The consensus is that organic processes in the brain are causing the psychosis and the damage. If it was permanent, people wouldn't be cured of psychosis and overwhelmingly they are. Antipsychotics change the disease state. If that wasn't true, you'd still be psychotic.

But that's what your citations actually say anyway.

Umm no

Please stop talking about your opinions on psychosis, schizophrenia, or their prognosis. You're not qualified to be making any assertions you've made, and again, telling those with a severe mental illness to "stop being a bitch and do more drugs" is not only grossly offensive, it's terrible advice... and probably the dumbest thing I've ever read on this website.

 

[new2drugs]

Just to update....it doesn't work.

Done both at the weekend. Not a huge amount of coke but few lines and had alcohol

 

[new2drugs]

Having said that...there is something good about the first line of coke when sober and no alcohol.

Ok the alcohol follows shortly but that first 20 mins or so till I get to the bar is awesome. If could somehow bottle that feeling and just drink a non alcoholic beer that would be life complete

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Alcohol withdrawal + cocaine sounds like a very good way to die of a MASSIVE seizure*


*my soulmate died of alcohol withdrawal seizure without the aide of cocaine

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Alcohol withdrawal + cocaine sounds like a very good way to die of a MASSIVE seizure*


*my soulmate died of alcohol withdrawal seizure without the aide of cocaine

Sorry for going off topic slightly, but how much and for how long had he been drinking?

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Sorry for going off topic slightly, but how much and for how long had he been drinking?

We were both homeless at that point and were drinking 2 liters of vodka and between 2 and 5 bottles of wine (between us) a day. I don't know how long we'd be drinking at that level, but he'd been alcohol dependant for four years at that point (5 years for me). I KNEW cold turkey was stupid, but we got a little money and rented a hotel room and decided to stay in bed (not in a sex-way, but because we knew we'd be too sick to do anything) and cold-turkey together.
On the second night I managed to actually sleep for a few hours. When I woke up he was dead on the floor. Paramedics said he'd gotten up in the night to go to the bathroom and had just had a massive grand mal seizure and passed away.
I still feel so guilty because I KNEW I should have talked him out of our self-detox and also because I was RIGHT THERE while he seized and died and didn't even know it.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

We were both homeless at that point and were drinking 2 liters of vodka and between 2 and 5 bottles of wine (between us) a day. I don't know how long we'd be drinking at that level, but he'd been alcohol dependant for four years at that point (5 years for me). I KNEW cold turkey was stupid, but we got a little money and rented a hotel room and decided to stay in bed (not in a sex-way, but because we knew we'd be too sick to do anything) and cold-turkey together.
On the second night I managed to actually sleep for a few hours. When I woke up he was dead on the floor. Paramedics said he'd gotten up in the night to go to the bathroom and had just had a massive grand mal seizure and passed away.
I still feel so guilty because I KNEW I should have talked him out of our self-detox and also because I was RIGHT THERE while he seized and died and didn't even know it.

Oh man, that's fuckin rough. I'm so sorry to hear that.

 

[jsinger]

Just wondering if any experiences of putting down the drink but instead moving to coke to get the high.

Thanks

I’ve done the opposite and it’s futile. Alcohol makes me crave something to override the alcohol buzz. Only shiny thing about alcohol is it’s readily available and legal. Frankly makes no sense to me but not much of how shit works does. I’m not a fan of drunks and found majority of them to be absolute assholes and it’s because the have a superiority complex and the are coddled when they too are neurotic insecure people. Not referring to casual drinkers the ones who get shit faced drunk and ones with a daily habit