The Dive's Covid Thread

[Droppersneck]

Anecdotal evidence is acceptable when coupled with snark, chud

 

[Las Veghost grower]

At the end of the day, I didn’t let the government pump that shit into my bloodstream, so I’m good to go

 

[thujone]

got lost on the way to tuskegee...

 

[Droppersneck]

To be clear it’s mostly middle
To upper class mayos that blindly trust the government, shits wild

 

[Las Veghost grower]

What’s wild is if you think about what the government learned from this whole COVID thing…and how what they learned will be implemented in the future,…cause that’s just how shit works unfortunately

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Actually this brings up a fun question…what do you think the main thing the government learned from the past 3-4 years is?

 

[bird.brain]

UK excess deaths are off the scale. Over a thousand more people are dying every week than expected. The vast majority are non Covid deaths. Sky News: “We don’t know what is driving those excess deaths.”

Excess deaths in 2022 among worst in 50 years

New figures show more than 650,000 people died in the UK last year.

www.bbc.com

The rise in cardiac problems has been pointed to by some online as evidence that Covid vaccines are driving the rise in deaths, but this conclusion is not supported by the data.
One type of Covid vaccine has been linked to a small rise in cases of heart inflammation and scarring (pericarditis and myocarditis). But this particular vaccine side-effect was mainly seen in boys and young men, while the excess deaths are highest in older men - aged 50 or more.

And these cases are too rare - and mostly not fatal - to account for the excess in deaths.

Finally, figures up to June 2022 looking at deaths from all causes show unvaccinated people were more likely to die than vaccinated people.

A number of doctors are blaming the wider crisis in the NHS.

At the start of 2022, death rates were looking like they'd returned to pre-pandemic levels. It wasn't until June that excess deaths really started to rise - just as the number of people waiting for hours on trolleys in English hospitals hit levels normally seen in winter.

On 1 January 2023, the president of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine suggested the crisis in urgent care could be causing "300-500 deaths a week".
It is not a figure recognised by NHS England, but it's roughly what you get if you multiply the number of people waiting long periods in A&E with the extra risk of dying estimated to come with those long waits (of between five and 12 hours).

It is possible to debate the precise numbers, but it's not controversial to say that your chances are worse if you wait longer for treatment, be that waiting for an ambulance to get to you, being stuck in an ambulance outside a hospital or in A&E.

And we are seeing record waits in each of those areas.

In November, for example, it took 48 minutes on average for an ambulance in England to respond to a suspected heart attack or stroke, compared to a target of 18 minutes.

 

[-=SS=-]

At the start of 2022, death rates were looking like they'd returned to pre-pandemic levels. It wasn't until June that excess deaths really started to rise - just as the number of people waiting for hours on trolleys in English hospitals hit levels normally seen in winter. - BBC

Oh, is that so? Fucking Aunty BBC.

Explain to me why the excess death rates have increased through Europe, and beyond, at the same time. You can pin the blame on the NHS in this country but that doesn't wash in explaining every other country does it. They really do think people are that stupid.

 

[bird.brain]

You can stop calling me stupid now, if you like.

I assume the same reasons as England and Australia and New Zealand, etc? I haven't looked at the data from every country in the world (I don't have the time / motivation) but it makes sense. You're looking for an explanation (other than the vaccine) as to why excess deaths are higher than they should be. Hospitals are overwhelmed dealing with the pandemic. Ambulance response times are way down. People have not been seeking treatment for various conditions at pre-pandemic rates. Etc. This must be a factor.

I'm sure some of the deaths are vaccine related, but there is no evidence to suggest that most of them are. Looking at the data, it appears to be a relatively small number.

What is your response to this:

Finally, figures up to June 2022 looking at deaths from all causes show unvaccinated people were more likely to die than vaccinated people.

Surely - surely! - it would be pretty easy to compare vaccinated and non-vaccinated death rates.

The data you require to prove your point should be easily accessible... if it exists.

Logically if the excess death rate is mostly due to vaccinations, the excess deaths would be more likely among vaccinated populations.

When adjusting for the fact that more people are vaccinated than not, that isn't the case.

Literally none of the data supports your argument.

But - hey - the data is corrupt. Right?

 

[-=SS=-]

You can stop calling me stupid now, if you like.

I didn't call you stupid. I was pointing out that the BBC is full of shit and putting forward an argument that has holes it, as they frequently do, to troll the public who they believe they are superior to. It's called mockery, they do it all the time. Smug establishment types get off on it (superiority complex).

 

[bird.brain]

You've been indirectly calling me (or at least people who aren't anti-vax) stupid, it seems.

I don't mean to be rude, but it's obvious. Really obvious.

There's so much that can be said. It is difficult to articulate because it instantly raises my blood pressure, trying to communicate what I consider to be pretty obvious and rational points that should easily be noted by all mature adults who simply pay attention. But that's the problem, the majority of people just have no real thinking ability of their own it seems, no attention span beyond one news cycle. They defer to authority for their thinking, to the TV, and have the moral strength of a 5 year old alone in the kitchen with the cookie jar.

I'm paying attention to what you're saying, for the record. It just doesn't make sense.

What are the holes in the argument put forward in that article?

 

[-=SS=-]

You've been indirectly calling me (or at least people who aren't anti-vax) stupid, it seems.

It seems, to you. Is not the same as me actually calling you stupid. My point about the BBC is clear enough, they are the ones who believe you are stupid. If there's any accusation of character it is towards them, not you. They created the mocking context by creating the half-truth about excess deaths being linked to hospital strain, which might be true to an extent in this country, but it is not elsewhere - they don't even bother to present the data to show that it isn't (in other countries), it is implied that it is and it is assumed you'll take their word for it, which is the mockery part.

 

[alasdairm]

You've been indirectly calling me (or at least people who aren't anti-vax) stupid, it seems.

and directly.

e.g.

You were stupid enough to give this toxic garbage to your children.

make everyone aware of their stupidity

I think you'll find stupidity is an equal opportunity employer

The majority of people are fucking hopeless specimens.

apparently people are too stupid to notice it

-=SS=- if others calling people stupid in a superior way truly upsets you, consider not doing it yourself.

be the change.

alasdair

 

[-=SS=-]

You were stupid enough to give this toxic garbage to your children.

I stand by that statement. They were stupid in that instance because children have fuck all risk, as was established very early on in 2020, and also because the jab has no long-term safety profile so you are exposing them to unnecessary risk. That is textbook stupid. It goes against basic parenting 101.

The rest of those quotes are not directly aimed at anyone specific.

And, yet again, you bring absolutely nothing to the discussion, alasdair.

 

[alasdairm]

nothing beyond pointing out your hypocrisy maybe.



but i got it - you only have a problem with calling people stupid - and a superior attitude - when it's anybody but you doing it.

alasdair

 

[-=SS=-]

nothing beyond pointing out your hypocrisy maybe.

What hypocrisy. I haven't said only I shall be the designator of stupid or be immune from stupidity myself. You really are an amateur shit stirrer and I think reddit would be a better fit for your personality. Perhaps if you engaged in actual dialogue here more often you might learn the definitions of words used.

but i got it - you only have a problem with calling people stupid - and a superior attitude - when it's anybody but you doing it.

Where have I said I have a problem with others calling others (or me) stupid? The BBC is a very specific example because it is an institution tasked with being impartial and presenting a balanced view, and not underhandedly mocking the audience that watches and trusts it - anyone who owns a TV in the UK has to by law pay a license fee, regardless of whether they watch the BBC, which is even more reason for them not to be underhanded cunts.

Pointing out the fact that an institution that is supposed to be 'aunty beeb', a friend of every brit, is in actuality a deceptive propaganda outfit run by smug elitist establishment types.. that says absolutely nothing about my beliefs of the people they are insinuating are stupid. It's the other way around! I'm alerting these people to the fact they're being mocked, not mocking them myself.

But go on. Do try and spin it around again. I'm absolutely thrilled with your second rate attempts to stir the pot and watching you desperately try to lampoon someone making a point you don't agree with without actually having the balls to enter the discussion yourself.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Let's bring things back to discussing points of view and not each other, Thanks

 

[Droppersneck]

I stand by that statement. They were stupid in that instance because children have fuck all risk, as was established very early on in 2020, and also because the jab has no long-term safety profile so you are exposing them to unnecessary risk. That is textbook stupid. It goes against basic parenting 101.

The rest of those quotes are not directly aimed at anyone specific.

And, yet again, you bring absolutely nothing to the discussion, alasdair.

It’s beyond stupid, it’s evil and cowardice imo

 

[Las Veghost grower]

I never understood why people look at BBC as a reputable source for information, they may have had journalistic integrity at one point, but it seems that point was a while ago

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

the vaccine doesnt even fucking work lol. I have not caught covid this entire time. I got two shots and have perma heart damage verified by a cardiologist and multiple doctors who have been on my case now over the last year.

Sounds shit news re your heart, very unlucky - grim

So it's perma damage? That sounds quite different from the usually-very-temporary mycocarditis that's sometimes reported.

Multiple doctors and a cardiologist verified? Sounds genuine then. They must have given you a detailed explaination as to the problem then - can you share that with us? What's the damage?