Apple Cider Vinegar and Methamphetamine orally..

[FallenOne86]

What kind of impact will it have on your digestive system and are there are benefits or are you just wasting money and excreting the drug much faster out of your system?

 

[chicken hoagie]

Mmmm, this would require trial and error, me thinks. For me personally, that sounds like a massive gut ache and possibly throwing up. I believe vinegar in general acts as a diuretic, so you may end up just excreting it faster. However, the timing of when you ingest the apple cider vinegar and when you take your dose might make a big difference...some acids like apple cider vinegar can raise the alkalinity of your body overall, so if you ingest the vinegar a couple hours prior, and take your dose with antacids, you may absorb a lot more and retain it for much longer.

But, definitely a trial and error method here.

 

[paranoid android]

drinking acid things with oral amphetamines makes it weaker, Taking them with basic stuff like tums or eno will increase the effects

 

[d1nach]

I have no degree so take this with a grain of sodium acetate.

But, I take amphetamine and believe the similar citric acid has little or no impact on amphetamine levels. (I feel like it helps with my dry mouth)

I believe acid and bases alter the pH of your urine to influence amphetamine levels.

I don't think citric acid changes the pH based on somewhere I read about the metabolism of citric acid to carbon dioxide therefore being exhaled I think, some chart measuring uring pH before and after citric acid, that it's the sodium or potassium or whatever that when excreted changes your urine pH, and some site where potassium citrate still was used to alkalize the urine.

So based on that my guess is since acetic acid is in vinegar and is chemically similar to citric acid that it will do absolutely nothing .

But i am biased my conflict of interest is lemonade taste amazing

 

[FallenOne86]

I have no degree so take this with a grain of sodium acetate.

But, I take amphetamine and believe the similar citric acid has little or no impact on amphetamine levels. (I feel like it helps with my dry mouth)

I believe acid and bases alter the pH of your urine to influence amphetamine levels.

I don't think citric acid changes the pH based on somewhere I read about the metabolism of citric acid to carbon dioxide therefore being exhaled I think, some chart measuring uring pH before and after citric acid, that it's the sodium or potassium or whatever that when excreted changes your urine pH, and some site where potassium citrate still was used to alkalize the urine.

So based on that my guess is since acetic acid is in vinegar and is chemically similar to citric acid that it will do absolutely nothing .

But i am biased my conflict of interest is lemonade taste amazing

That makes sense to me so thank you for that! I appreciate it! And I have to second that lemonade is amazing! We have a lemon tree that is growing and my girlfriend and I enjoy our freshly squeezed lemonade juice. I surprised her mother the other day with a bag of lemons haha can’t go wrong with lemonade!

 

[FallenOne86]

drinking acid things with oral amphetamines makes it weaker, Taking them with basic stuff like tums or eno will increase the effects

Yeah tums is the way to go I think! I also take some beano. I know it for gas, but I don’t have gas but rather found that it helps with the stomach discomfort.

I know a lot of heavy hitters and crazy dudes who use a lot but I don’t know anyone as crazy as me when it comes go oral use. I feel bad for my stomach man I pray I don’t die a bad death no joke! But beano and for sure some Greek Yogurt will help with stomach discomfort.

PS ***THESE TWO THINGS WE MUST REMEMBER TO DO.. A) drink that water and B) get that sleep

 

[Keif' Richards]

I believe that the vinegar is going to lower your urinary ph which will then cause you to ultimately absorb less of the drug.

A more alkaline environment will increase absorption, while a more acidic environment will lead to less absorption.

Urinary Ph has a massive impact on the pharmacokinetics of amphetamines and other similar classes like Cathinones.

If you're using the apple cider vinegar as q dietary supplement, then you could just take some antacids to counteract its effects. Some trial and error will be involved.

 

[FallenOne86]

Dang I feel like I bought the darn apple cider vinegar pills as an impulse because people kept telling me it makes the body more alkaline but I should have done my research cuz boy were they wrong! I read something about it lowering potassium levels and bone loss!!! Yeah I’ll throw it in the trash! Thanks guys

 

[FallenOne86]

I appreciate your input! Next time I’ll do a little more research

 

[Jabberwocky]

I believe that the vinegar is going to lower your urinary ph which will then cause you to ultimately absorb less of the drug.

A more alkaline environment will increase absorption, while a more acidic environment will lead to less absorption.

Urinary Ph has a massive impact on the pharmacokinetics of amphetamines and other similar classes like Cathinones.

If you're using the apple cider vinegar as q dietary supplement, then you could just take some antacids to counteract its effects. Some trial and error will be involved.

That's now how it works. Unless he guzzled a whole court of apple cider vinegar, it's not going to lower the pH of his urine. , To lower urine pH, they prescribe a pretty strong drug.

But if his urine was acidified, all that means is that he releases more methamphetamine and metabolites through his urine faster.
It doesn't increase metabolism, it increases excretion.

And your urinary pH has nothing to do with how your body absorbs methamphetamine from the stomach and intestines.

But if you're not drinking enough water, it doesn't help.

 

[Keif' Richards]

That's now how it works. Unless he guzzled a whole court of apple cider vinegar, it's not going to lower the pH of his urine. , To lower urine pH, they prescribe a pretty strong drug.

But if his urine was acidified, all that means is that he releases more methamphetamine and metabolites through his urine faster.
It doesn't increase metabolism, it increases excretion.

And your urinary pH has nothing to do with how your body absorbs methamphetamine from the stomach and intestines.

But if you're not drinking enough water, it doesn't help.

Hey buddy. So we are either misunderstanding each other or you're mistaken.

There are numerous studies citing the role of OTC antacid medications having a statistically, clinically significant effect upon Methamphetamine metabolism.

Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other, but urinary excretion would be considered part of theetabolic process. Metabolism is defined by the action of a substances receipt into circulation with that metabolism being over when the substance is fully excreted.

I'm on my phone on the bus so I'm not going to paste the pubmed materials but you should be able to find them easily using our keywords in this discussion.

If the argument is over terminology than I will agree to disagree with you, but the point stands that urinary ph can be manipulated easily and this manipulation has a significant effect on how the drug is excreted.

You'll note in the literature that there is a difference in that a highly alkaline environment can lead to a difference in the amount of Amphetamines excreted as unchanged product. It's a difference of 25% to 50% difference in unchanged Amphetamines, hence the user will experience more amphetamine with an alkaline environment. This is pretty well-known and essentially undeniable.

BTW I only use the terminology urinary ph ad that is the terminology used by the researchers.

And it is quarts not courts when referring to measure of volume as we are in this context.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hey buddy. So we are either misunderstanding each other or you're mistaken.

There are numerous studies citing the role of OTC antacid medications having a statistically, clinically significant effect upon Methamphetamine metabolism.

Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other, but urinary excretion would be considered part of theetabolic process. Metabolism is defined by the action of a substances receipt into circulation with that metabolism being over when the substance is fully excreted.

I'm on my phone on the bus so I'm not going to paste the pubmed materials but you should be able to find them easily using our keywords in this discussion.

If the argument is over terminology than I will agree to disagree with you, but the point stands that urinary ph can be manipulated easily and this manipulation has a significant effect on how the drug is excreted.

You'll note in the literature that there is a difference in that a highly alkaline environment can lead to a difference in the amount of Amphetamines excreted as unchanged product. It's a difference of 25% to 50% difference in unchanged Amphetamines, hence the user will experience more amphetamine with an alkaline environment. This is pretty well-known and essentially undeniable.

BTW I only use the terminology urinary ph ad that is the terminology used by the researchers.

And it is quarts not courts when referring to measure of volume as we are in this context.

Do you actually understand why an alkaline urine reduces the amount of methamphetamine excreted in urine, and why acidic urine increases the amount of methamphetamine excreted in urine?
Do you actually know how difficult it is to lower or raise urinary pH?
I guarantee that if you drank a quart of apple cider vinegar, your urinary pH is probably going to be exactly the same as it was before you drank it.

And no urinary excretion is not a metabolic process, defecation is not a metabolic process.

When substances get to your bladder, metabolism is over.

Metabolism only occurs in the liver. If it's unchanged, it's just excreted that means it hasn't been metabolized.

I still haven't seen any hard data other than anecdotal evidence that consuming an antacid somehow makes methamphetamine more bioavailable when consumed orally.

But that still isn't metabolism.

It's not terminology. You're just wrong.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @shugenja

I was hoping to keep this amicable. When you said "metabolism happens only in the liver" I thought you were trolling me for a second. Now, I know you're not. I think maybe you have read some things, that perhaps you think you understand, but there are some critical pieces missing in your understanding that will make sense. Don't take my word for it, we like to cite sources around here, so you can take my betters' words for it. There isn't any reason to get upset. I'm not trying to prove you wrong specifically. I only want the correct information to be available to the masses. That's what we do here.

Metabolism can be defined within the broad sense of literally any chemical reaction that happens inside the body. Chemical reaction has such a broad definition that you could consider saliva breaking down food in your mouth as a chemical reaction. Thus, even inserting something into your mouth, causing it to interact in any way with your body's chemistry is in a sense, part of metabolism. This is a pretty basic and irrefutable point. Encyclopedia Brittanica all the way up to the high-level medical journals available on the internet will tell you the same. So, the moment that Methamphetamine is ingested until it is fully excreted from the body is part of what is called the metabolic process or processes.

https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cpt1974163part1520#:~:text=The%20increase%20in%20urine%20pH,certain%20acidic%20and%20basic%20drugs.

The above link will help illustrate my point regarding the ease of influencing the urinary Ph of a person by consuming either alkalinizing or acidifying agents. This reading is a cursory glance at something that we can unpack further if you're still not convinced when you finish reading this post. Essentially, urinary Ph is in flux at all times, influenced not just by the obvious "taking antacids" or "consuming acidic substances" in fact, urinary Ph is influenced by things like eating, in which more acid will be released in the stomach to process food for one small but illustrative example. In short, any person can quite easily influence their urinary Ph through relatively simple means. Tums are sold at gas stations and my grandmother eats the fruit flavored ones as fucking candy. So, there are people out there that I know for fact, are causing changes in their urinary Ph even without them trying to or otherwise being aware of it.

Now that we have established the ease of changing one's urinary Ph, we will discuss the effect of urinary Ph on the metabolism of Amphetamines. This article is from a journal focusing on issues specifically related to nephrology. Nephrology is the medical specialty concerned with the kidneys and for obvious reasons there is often significant crossover between the fields of urology and the wider world of obstetrics and gynecology. It doesn't matter though, as this is purely a reading regarding urinary Ph and how it relates to the metabolism of Amphetamines.

Acute and delayed nephropathy due to methamphetamine abuse

Methamphetamine is a highly addictive drug that acts as a stimulant for the central nervous system. It increases alertness and physical activity but can cause cardiac dysrhythmias, hypertension, hallucinations and violent behavior. The excretion rate of methamphetamine by the kidney can be...

nephropathol.com

The article is pretty easy to understand. You can see a potentially massive difference in the amount of Amphetamines cleared from the body as unchanged product. I think the part you might be missing is that when Amphetamine is excreted as UNCHANGED product, that is Amphetamine that is ultimately not utilized by the body. That is why it is referred to as unchanged product. So, if a person has a highly alkaline urinary Ph, they will ultimately be excreting less Amphetamines, methlyated or not methylated, as unchanged product. I think you can see where I'm going with this.

I understand that you're unsure of what you're saying yourself, given that you said you could "guarantee that something will probably happen" which is sort of a paradox of a statement. I'll always discuss things in a semi-respectful manner, but it doesn't help spark friendly debate when you just tell someone "they're just wrong" when you yourself are not sure of what you're saying. This isn't youtube, this isn't social media, making noise or making a scene will not win you anything worth any sort of value in this kind of community.

We value knowledge. We all get this knowledge from the same internet that you use. There isn't really an excuse for going out of your way to crap on someone else without at least doing your due diligence in research. This isn't even a high-level, up for debate, is it or isn't it issue. The issue concerning urinary Ph and substituted phenethylamines like Amphetamines is well-known and in the age of Bluelight, even folks I meet on the street are well aware of this metabolic influence. This is why the drug interaction warning is found all over the internet, on the pharmacy handouts with Amphetamine prescriptions and why my Methadone clinic doesn't hand out tums as a clinical policy (a wide range of drugs are heavily effected by urinary Ph, it nullifies some and makes some more potent).

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hey @shugenja

I was hoping to keep this amicable. When you said "metabolism happens only in the liver" I thought you were trolling me for a second. Now, I know you're not. I think maybe you have read some things, that perhaps you think you understand, but there are some critical pieces missing in your understanding that will make sense. Don't take my word for it, we like to cite sources around here, so you can take my betters' words for it. There isn't any reason to get upset. I'm not trying to prove you wrong specifically. I only want the correct information to be available to the masses. That's what we do here.

Metabolism can be defined within the broad sense of literally any chemical reaction that happens inside the body. Chemical reaction has such a broad definition that you could consider saliva breaking down food in your mouth as a chemical reaction. Thus, even inserting something into your mouth, causing it to interact in any way with your body's chemistry is in a sense, part of metabolism. This is a pretty basic and irrefutable point. Encyclopedia Brittanica all the way up to the high-level medical journals available on the internet will tell you the same. So, the moment that Methamphetamine is ingested until it is fully excreted from the body is part of what is called the metabolic process or processes.

https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cpt1974163part1520#:~:text=The%20increase%20in%20urine%20pH,certain%20acidic%20and%20basic%20drugs.

The above link will help illustrate my point regarding the ease of influencing the urinary Ph of a person by consuming either alkalinizing or acidifying agents. This reading is a cursory glance at something that we can unpack further if you're still not convinced when you finish reading this post. Essentially, urinary Ph is in flux at all times, influenced not just by the obvious "taking antacids" or "consuming acidic substances" in fact, urinary Ph is influenced by things like eating, in which more acid will be released in the stomach to process food for one small but illustrative example. In short, any person can quite easily influence their urinary Ph through relatively simple means. Tums are sold at gas stations and my grandmother eats the fruit flavored ones as fucking candy. So, there are people out there that I know for fact, are causing changes in their urinary Ph even without them trying to or otherwise being aware of it.

Now that we have established the ease of changing one's urinary Ph, we will discuss the effect of urinary Ph on the metabolism of Amphetamines. This article is from a journal focusing on issues specifically related to nephrology. Nephrology is the medical specialty concerned with the kidneys and for obvious reasons there is often significant crossover between the fields of urology and the wider world of obstetrics and gynecology. It doesn't matter though, as this is purely a reading regarding urinary Ph and how it relates to the metabolism of Amphetamines.

Acute and delayed nephropathy due to methamphetamine abuse

Methamphetamine is a highly addictive drug that acts as a stimulant for the central nervous system. It increases alertness and physical activity but can cause cardiac dysrhythmias, hypertension, hallucinations and violent behavior. The excretion rate of methamphetamine by the kidney can be...

nephropathol.com

The article is pretty easy to understand. You can see a potentially massive difference in the amount of Amphetamines cleared from the body as unchanged product. I think the part you might be missing is that when Amphetamine is excreted as UNCHANGED product, that is Amphetamine that is ultimately not utilized by the body. That is why it is referred to as unchanged product. So, if a person has a highly alkaline urinary Ph, they will ultimately be excreting less Amphetamines, methlyated or not methylated, as unchanged product. I think you can see where I'm going with this.

I understand that you're unsure of what you're saying yourself, given that you said you could "guarantee that something will probably happen" which is sort of a paradox of a statement. I'll always discuss things in a semi-respectful manner, but it doesn't help spark friendly debate when you just tell someone "they're just wrong" when you yourself are not sure of what you're saying. This isn't youtube, this isn't social media, making noise or making a scene will not win you anything worth any sort of value in this kind of community.

We value knowledge. We all get this knowledge from the same internet that you use. There isn't really an excuse for going out of your way to crap on someone else without at least doing your due diligence in research. This isn't even a high-level, up for debate, is it or isn't it issue. The issue concerning urinary Ph and substituted phenethylamines like Amphetamines is well-known and in the age of Bluelight, even folks I meet on the street are well aware of this metabolic influence. This is why the drug interaction warning is found all over the internet, on the pharmacy handouts with Amphetamine prescriptions and why my Methadone clinic doesn't hand out tums as a clinical policy (a wide range of drugs are heavily effected by urinary Ph, it nullifies some and makes some more potent).

And none of that supports your premise that drinking apple cider vinegar will acidify the urine to any reasonable extent.

If you're drinking gallons of it possibly, but You don't propose that.

Daily antacid administration for 7 days changed urinary pH by less than one meaning urinary pH was possibly close to seven because urine is normally a bit acidic.

Nothing in the online Wiley document showed any thing regarding acidifying urine.

If you don't have a study that shows drinking apple cider vinegar significantly affects urine by acidifying, it below pH of 6, you're full of crap.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Just because you have a study that shows daily administration of an antacid changes urinary pH by on average 0.4 to 0.5, doesn't mean that apple cider vinegar will significantly change urinary pH.

Till you have a study that shows drinking apple cider vinegar, including the amount and frequency of drinking apple cider vinegar. Actually acidifies the urine, you don't have any data to support your claim.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And lastly , metabolism of methamphetamine only occurs in the liver.
The fact that the kidneys may retain or release methamphetamine conjugates and also byproducts of methamphetamine metabolism that are also conjugates is immaterial to metabolism.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And lastly, because methamphetamine abusers and addicts are chronically dehydrated, whether the urine is more acidic than normal is likely immaterial.
Urinary volume is the most important variable regarding excretion of both metabolized and unchanged methamphetamine from the body.

So while it is possible to change urinary pH, using apple cider vinegar and even daily administration of antacids, is not significant enough to change urinary pH to the degree that you will see significant changes in excretion of methamphetamine from the body.

It is possible that consumption of apple cider vinegar could make methamphetamine more bioavailable orally. However, until you can present evidence that that occurs, You are full of crap.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hey @shugenja

I was hoping to keep this amicable. When you said "metabolism happens only in the liver" I thought you were trolling me for a second. Now, I know you're not. I think maybe you have read some things, that perhaps you think you understand, but there are some critical pieces missing in your understanding that will make sense. Don't take my word for it, we like to cite sources around here, so you can take my betters' words for it. There isn't any reason to get upset. I'm not trying to prove you wrong specifically. I only want the correct information to be available to the masses. That's what we do here.

Metabolism can be defined within the broad sense of literally any chemical reaction that happens inside the body. Chemical reaction has such a broad definition that you could consider saliva breaking down food in your mouth as a chemical reaction. Thus, even inserting something into your mouth, causing it to interact in any way with your body's chemistry is in a sense, part of metabolism. This is a pretty basic and irrefutable point. Encyclopedia Brittanica all the way up to the high-level medical journals available on the internet will tell you the same. So, the moment that Methamphetamine is ingested until it is fully excreted from the body is part of what is called the metabolic process or processes.

https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cpt1974163part1520#:~:text=The%20increase%20in%20urine%20pH,certain%20acidic%20and%20basic%20drugs.

The above link will help illustrate my point regarding the ease of influencing the urinary Ph of a person by consuming either alkalinizing or acidifying agents. This reading is a cursory glance at something that we can unpack further if you're still not convinced when you finish reading this post. Essentially, urinary Ph is in flux at all times, influenced not just by the obvious "taking antacids" or "consuming acidic substances" in fact, urinary Ph is influenced by things like eating, in which more acid will be released in the stomach to process food for one small but illustrative example. In short, any person can quite easily influence their urinary Ph through relatively simple means. Tums are sold at gas stations and my grandmother eats the fruit flavored ones as fucking candy. So, there are people out there that I know for fact, are causing changes in their urinary Ph even without them trying to or otherwise being aware of it.

Now that we have established the ease of changing one's urinary Ph, we will discuss the effect of urinary Ph on the metabolism of Amphetamines. This article is from a journal focusing on issues specifically related to nephrology. Nephrology is the medical specialty concerned with the kidneys and for obvious reasons there is often significant crossover between the fields of urology and the wider world of obstetrics and gynecology. It doesn't matter though, as this is purely a reading regarding urinary Ph and how it relates to the metabolism of Amphetamines.

Acute and delayed nephropathy due to methamphetamine abuse

Methamphetamine is a highly addictive drug that acts as a stimulant for the central nervous system. It increases alertness and physical activity but can cause cardiac dysrhythmias, hypertension, hallucinations and violent behavior. The excretion rate of methamphetamine by the kidney can be...

nephropathol.com

The article is pretty easy to understand. You can see a potentially massive difference in the amount of Amphetamines cleared from the body as unchanged product. I think the part you might be missing is that when Amphetamine is excreted as UNCHANGED product, that is Amphetamine that is ultimately not utilized by the body. That is why it is referred to as unchanged product. So, if a person has a highly alkaline urinary Ph, they will ultimately be excreting less Amphetamines, methlyated or not methylated, as unchanged product. I think you can see where I'm going with this.

I understand that you're unsure of what you're saying yourself, given that you said you could "guarantee that something will probably happen" which is sort of a paradox of a statement. I'll always discuss things in a semi-respectful manner, but it doesn't help spark friendly debate when you just tell someone "they're just wrong" when you yourself are not sure of what you're saying. This isn't youtube, this isn't social media, making noise or making a scene will not win you anything worth any sort of value in this kind of community.

We value knowledge. We all get this knowledge from the same internet that you use. There isn't really an excuse for going out of your way to crap on someone else without at least doing your due diligence in research. This isn't even a high-level, up for debate, is it or isn't it issue. The issue concerning urinary Ph and substituted phenethylamines like Amphetamines is well-known and in the age of Bluelight, even folks I meet on the street are well aware of this metabolic influence. This is why the drug interaction warning is found all over the internet, on the pharmacy handouts with Amphetamine prescriptions and why my Methadone clinic doesn't hand out tums as a clinical policy (a wide range of drugs are heavily effected by urinary Ph, it nullifies some and makes some more potent).

And the only documented evidence of vinegar lowering urine pH was in people that had low potassium, in people with normal potassium. It didn't lower urine pH.

So it seems in healthy people with normal potassium levels vinegar does not significantly lower urinary pH.

If you really want to lower urinary pH, you have to use something that is really effective, like ammonium chloride, or lysine hydrochloride, or citric acid, along with ascorbic acid and 18 oz of cranberry juice.

That's what people in the medical field use to increase excretion of PCP.

Urinary acidifiers in phencyclidine detoxification - PubMed

Urinary acidification is widely used to increase the excretion rate of PCP in abusers. Various acidifying techniques were used and compared with regard to efficacy in lowering pH, side effects, and patient acceptability. On the basis of our findings and data from routine monitoring with test...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

They don't use vinegar.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And addressing the effects of antacids on urinary pH.
The daily use of Tums, which is calcium carbonate, only had a change of 0.4 to 0.5, magnesium and aluminum hydroxide had a change of 0.9 after 1 week of daily antacid administration.

Those changes fall within the normal bounds of urinary pH which is on the low side about 5.5 and on the high side about 7.0 in healthy individuals.

https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cpt1974163part1520

As I said before, dehydration and lack of urinary flow due to low levels of fluid ingestion have much more impact on the amount of excretion than possibly acidifying urine or alkalizing urine.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @shugenja . Try to keep everything in one post. It makes it easier for more people to read what you have to write. I don't mind debating with people. It's really an important part of what we do. I understand that things can become heated when people both believe they are right. We have to resist the urge though. It doesn't help anyone, it implies that you're feeling beaten and it contributes nothing to the academic discourse. I'm not going to force you to change it, but if you want more people to read and comprehend your argument, it's best to think it through, make and outline (physical or mental) and then write. You said "lastly" more than once. I don't think the way you're sounding is actually the way you are appearing to the community.

I said it in my first reply; we are here for knowledge and to help one another. If you are determined to be right more than you are dedicated to finding the Truth, then you are misunderstanding what we are all about. If you disagree with someone. you don't have to tell them they're "full of crap". It's just unnecessary, because whatever anger you feel for me that is producing this language is not reciprocated by me. I'm just here discussing Harm Reduction as always. I'm not condescending here man, but this is important. If you go out of your way to insult people and then you're proven wrong, you're proven wrong in front of everybody, for the rest of Bluelight's history.

So, are you aware that ascorbic acid is Vitamin C? Vitamin C is an essential nutrient and we consume it everyday provided we have a proper diet. You talk about needing severe medicine to reduce urinary Ph, then you go on to say that the same can be done using Vitamin C and some cranberry juice... literally things that I and many others will have in their house already. I don't know what the problem is, because we pretty much are agreeing that there are myriad ways of raising or lowering urinary Ph. It can be raised and lowered. It is constantly in flux and we both agree that even a Vitamin C tablet can have an effect. I'm hoping with this., we can move on from this basic point.

Next, you're discussing changes in Urinary Ph as indicated by using a standard acid test. You're referring to the amount changed with no context for what the human body can and can't tolerate. An example: if we lose 10% of the water in our body, we are basically at death's door. It's not like we go through the day using that full 100%. I think you're looking at the acid test numbers simply as numbers, with 1 or 2 known to be small, low numbers. This has nothing to do with the clinical relevance of these changes. You give absolutely no context.

I provided you with materials directly related to our topic of discussion. I even helped explain them a little bit. You're not taking my word for it, you're taking the word of highly-educated physicians writing in peer-reviewed settings. Peer-reviewed means that the physician who wrote it, sent it around to many other physicians and these physicians agree with the statements made by the first. Barring some kind of conspiracy, which, sure, is possible in this world, peer-reviewed research is as good as it gets in terms of veracity.

And lastly, because methamphetamine abusers and addicts are chronically dehydrated, whether the urine is more acidic than normal is likely immaterial.
Urinary volume is the most important variable regarding excretion of both metabolized and unchanged methamphetamine from the body.

So while it is possible to change urinary pH, using apple cider vinegar and even daily administration of antacids, is not significant enough to change urinary pH to the degree that you will see significant changes in excretion of methamphetamine from the body.

It is possible that consumption of apple cider vinegar could make methamphetamine more bioavailable orally. However, until you can present evidence that that occurs, You are full of crap.

There are a lot of issues with these statements man. I'm not trying to tear you apart, but you're clearly filling the blanks with your own suppositions. Sometimes we have to do that when we learn, but you can't really use whatever pops into your head in a debate about medicine. You say "lack of urinary flow", whatever that actually means, is the greatest indicator of Methamphetamine excretion. That's just not true man.

The only article you've provided me to back up your statements is about PCP. PCP is a different drug, with different pharmacokinetics that substituted Phenethylamines. Aside from that, the article discusses urinary Ph in general and I'm not exactly sure what part of the article is supposed to make your main point, as it seems we're already in agreement about being able to change urinary Ph with all kinds of different stuff.

Please just try not to come into a thread and challenge someone for personal reasons. I appreciate that you're trying to learn and we'll always support you, but you are not going to make friends or have a good scholastic reputation if you continue posting these things as fact that you don't truly understand. It's not just about an argument. Harm Reduction concerns peoples' safety. You can always raise a dissenting opinion. That's what the community is all about. I'm not holding this against you or anything, but it will be difficult for us to get along if this type of thing persists., Don't think about me. Think about the thousands of people who will come here seeking help.

None of this is personal. I really encourage you to read the materials I have posted and try to understand. I wasn't born knowing all this shit myself. I've read and been brought up by other BL'ers. In fairness, I have read all of your posts, word for word and I legitimately read the article about PCP. Mistakes happen and it doesn't mean you're an idiot. I think you really care about this and I appreciate that 1000%, but prepare yourself to be wrong, because it will inevitably happen again. In that event, take your time, do the research and come back with your best answer in a single, easy format i.e. a single post.

Sorry, I just reread this. You did list the acceptable bounds for urinary Ph as between 5.5 and 7, which I've verified is pretty accurate. With that in mind, that would mean a change of 0.9 would literally be a 2/3 increase or decrease. The scale goes from 1-10, but the effective range for a human is that small window, as you have said yourself. With that, you can see both how and why Amphetamines are effected by urinary Ph in such a way. I'm not going to talk to you like a child. I'm sure you get the basic statistical significance.

Just to break this idea all the way down, if the "goldilocks zone" is ~1.5 and we know (from the articles) that urinary Ph significantly alters the excretion of Amphetamines and we further know that this zone can be changed easily through the use of acidic/alkaline substance, that should be a good explanation.