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Protest in Iran

Rainman1964 said:
Wasn't Mohammed and his wife considered equals? And there is not one word in the Koran about women wearing hijabs. Not one. Islam is like all religions -- different doctrines for different types of practice. However, I do not think it is prudent for people from areas in the world who have never been to Iran, or any other country for that matter to concern themselves with issues that we may know nothing about. Unless these women are personally asking to be freed from their lives, we should care more about what is happening in our own lives. People need to know more about the history of Islamic and Sharia Law, and most of all, respect for other cultures before inserting opinions or getting involved.
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I somewhat agree, however, in this case, it's pretty clear the women are protesting because they wish to be free to make their own choice and not be persecuted for their choice on what to wear, to be protected legally against sexual assault, etc.
 
I haven't seen anything on the news about the head of Islam condemning it.
The majority of Muslim women live in Islamic countries where their husband's can beat them.
There's no excuse for the world to turn a blind eye or defend it.
It's a human rights issue.
 
Everyone has valid points and I respect and agree with all of them; however, we have so much oppression and hate, poverty, murder, homophobia and daily sufferings right in our own back yard -- the good old USA.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, we have the worst criminal activity going on against every citizen that is perpetrated and assisted by our very own government -- our Congress mostly, to be exact. I have been on the periphery keeping up to date on social issues all my life so that I am aware. But I have decided to dive deeper since going to law school and the younger generation better do something, or what is left of what could be the best nation on this planet will be gone for good in 20 years or less.

Do the research -- see the gentleman, Brigman "...." can't remember his last name. He is on Joe Rogan's podcast on Spotify, about the 6th or 7th guest down. He is a former pharma. sales rep. who is now a medical clinic owner for non-insurance payment pain relief, etc., at any rate. He gives a two and a half talk on the country's healthcare situation. It will blow your fucking minds. The insurance companies need to be stopped. They are sending lobbying groups and pac money in the millions to Congress. They make profits that is unreal. The government allows this ponzi scheme to continue. Some states refuse to do business with the insurance companies. This fucking thing where we are forced to have insurance to put money in the insurance companies' pockets. They have billions!!!

This is why people can't get their meds or care. Watch the podcast!! Then you won't be worrying about what is going on half a world away.

V
 
Jennn said:
I haven't seen anything on the news about the head of Islam condemning it.
The majority of Muslim women live in Islamic countries where their husband's can beat them.
There's no excuse for the world to turn a blind eye or defend it.
It's a human rights issue.
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There isn't "a head of Islam" not like the pope is to catholics anyway.
 
It's very telling. People would be up in arms if someone told a woman to not wear a hijab. Woman get killed for wearing one improperly and the western liberals are silent. It's hypocritical.
 
Yep, it’s fucked up over there, and not just Iran…if your a woman in a lot of those Islamic states you are sub human. I think most people really don’t realize just how bad it is
 
That book I posted is written by a Muslim woman so she knows what she's talking about.
The hypocrites is what bothers me. You say anything negative about Islam and you're a racist but Islamic countries can marry kids, stone woman and guys to death and the same people say nothing.
 
Jennn said:
That book I posted is written by a Muslim woman so she knows what she's talking about.
The hypocrites is what bothers me. You say anything negative about Islam and you're a racist but Islamic countries can marry kids, stone woman and guys to death and the same people say nothing.
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Right but there are more extreme places than others, for example I don’t think Iran is even as extreme as Afghanistan is now, it’s just fucked up all the way across for the most part tho
 
Jennn said:
That book I posted is written by a Muslim woman so she knows what she's talking about.
The hypocrites is what bothers me. You say anything negative about Islam and you're a racist but Islamic countries can marry kids, stone woman and guys to death and the same people say nothing.
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There are definitely liberals who won't hear a bad word said about islam in general. But I think most people are just dismayed when they see people saying "all Muslims are terrorists" or "all Muslims are oppressive woman haters" or "get 'em out of our country". I mean the ones who moved to western nations are probably trying to escape their countries because they don't want to live that way.

But yeah, things are pretty bad for a lot of people since this wave of fundamentalists started taking over so many middle eastern countries. At other points in history, there have been progressive Islam-based governments, but that isn't the way it's going right now, unfortunately.
 
Cream Gravy? said:
Why are any Iranians upset?

If they didn't want to live under Sharia Law they shouldn't have overthrown the liberal monarchy that was rapidly advancing them economically and culturally until the 1979 revolution when the vast majority of them thought it a great idea to murder a large number of the citizenry then replace the Shah with a theocratic dictatorship. While I feel sorry for the women of any Islamic culture, I feel little pity for Iranians themselves, as on the whole they embrace radical Islam, and have only themselves to blame for all their economic woes.

Before 79 they were one of the wealthiest, best educated nations in that region. Now they're the exact opposite. Alhamdulillah?
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They overthrown the liberal monarchy because they remember Mossadeq. They remember a lot of things as they are a 27 centuries old nation. Mohammed Mossadeq was their democratic elected president in early 50s
He was also a liberal and not religiously fanatic , in fact hard islamists didn't like him at all.
Guy was trying to find a new political way for the country, economy was doing well and he wanted to have good relations both with western and communist countries. He was a popular and honest president.
But then he nationalited oil production, under the idea of iranian natural resources belonging to the iranian people, not to British Petroleum and other western companies.
What happened next? Yes, economical blockade to make him fall. Didn't work.
So, what happened next? Yes, CIA killed him. Then, US and UK put that liberal monarchy that you said, the utter corrupt Sha and his criminal politic police, the Savak.
That's why iranians overthrown him.
Did they do a smart move promoting a radical and fanatic Ayatollah to the head of their nation? No, I don't think so.

I think wearing a hijab is not opressive, being forced to wear it is.
A young woman dying in a police station after being arrested for wearing her hijab wrongly is not opression, it is full blown murder.
 
The big issue with these protests (which in principle, are valid) is that the USA routinely, directly and covertly involves themselves in "grassroots" protests overseas in enemy countries, in order to sow dissent, weaken governments and eventually enact regime change. These Iran protests are most likely being inflamed by the West, as we can see with the major media coverage.
If this was a legitimate domestic protest then the government would be more likely to capitulate. But because the Iranian leaders can see through what's happening, they are very unlikely to negotiate at all because it would be seen as a W for the invasive foreign proxies.
 
If this was a legitimate domestic protest then the government would be more likely to capitulate.
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I highly doubt it. Thinking that requires you to also accept the premise that the Iranian government is responsive to public sentiment, and I just don't see how that's the case (all regimes, even dictatorships, rest on a degree of popular support, but that's different from thinking that street demonstrations, which have happened to a significant degree before in Iran, would lead to significant concessions.)

Furthermore, I agree that the United States has its hand in every opportunity it can see to stoke instability in "oppositional regimes", but where does that leave people who struggle against such regimes? If you emphasize this point to an exaggerated degree, it basically reduces tens, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of people in the streets to merely being dupes who are at the end of puppet strings of the USA or other nations. The social or economic problems which led directly to [insert protest here], and the willful agency/organizational methods of the activists on the ground (carried out under great threat of direct harm, especially in a nation like Iran) are reduced to merely being just another play in a geopolitical chess game.
 
Señor Moreno said:
He was also a liberal and not religiously fanatic , in fact hard islamists didn't like him at all.
Guy was trying to find a new political way for the country, economy was doing well and he wanted to have good relations both with western and communist countries. He was a popular and honest president.
But then he nationalited oil production, under the idea of iranian natural resources belonging to the iranian people, not to British Petroleum and other western companies.
What happened next? Yes, economical blockade to make him fall. Didn't work.
So, what happened next? Yes, CIA killed him. Then, US and UK put that liberal monarchy that you said, the utter corrupt Sha and his criminal politic police, the Savak.
That's why iranians overthrown him.
Did they do a smart move promoting a radical and fanatic Ayatollah to the head of their nation? No, I don't think so.
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Yes, I know of this part of their history. I'm not ashamed to say I'd prefer liberal puppets to religious zealots. I'd have probably been purged in 79 like many Iranians if I lived there. No way in hell I'd give over to a theocracy, and that's my point. So yeah, the Shah sucked. The guy before him just wanted to nationalize Iran, and it was during a period of continued Western imperialism so his efforts were thwarted. Hell the Soviets helped the English invade in the 40s so Iran just kinda gets fucked by everyone so I get why a Persian nationalist sentiment might arise. But not Islamic nationalism.

It doesn't matter how anyone justifies it, getting behind theocratic zealots is arguably as bad as getting behind Mussolini or Franco.

Women should indeed be allowed to wear a hijab, or not if they so desire. So I do feel bad for young Iranians. Baby Boomer aged ones, not so much. They dug their grave four decades ago.
 
Cream Gravy? said:
Yes, I know of this part of their history. I'm not ashamed to say I'd prefer liberal puppets to religious zealots. I'd have probably been purged in 79 like many Iranians if I lived there. No way in hell I'd give over to a theocracy, and that's my point. So yeah, the Shah sucked. The guy before him just wanted to nationalize Iran, and it was during a period of continued Western imperialism so his efforts were thwarted. Hell the Soviets helped the English invade in the 40s so Iran just kinda gets fucked by everyone so I get why a Persian nationalist sentiment might arise. But not Islamic nationalism.

It doesn't matter how anyone justifies it, getting behind theocratic zealots is arguably as bad as getting behind Mussolini or Franco.

Women should indeed be allowed to wear a hijab, or not if they so desire. So I do feel bad for young Iranians. Baby Boomer aged ones, not so much. They dug their grave four decades ago
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Absolutely. I also think that many of us, or at least those of us who have had obvious and undeniable problematic use of drugs, would be fucked in Iran, Arabia or whatever other country ruled by Sharia. In fact, in any country ruled by authoritarian folks. I mean, despite them not being religious, you don't expect that much of an supportive response from Duterte or Putin if you are a russian or a filipino junkie.
Many of us would be purgued in many a place, we can be critic with our western countries, but first and foremost, we should be grateful of having born where we did.

I think iranians did the 100% right thing when they overthrown the Sha, but, as stated in my previous post, I also think they did a very bad move promoting an Ayatollah as their supreme leader and erasing the separation between faith and state.
Hijab must be a choice. If a girl doesn't fancy wearing it and you order her to do so, that is opression.
If a girl wants to wear a hijab and you don't allow her to do so, that is opression again.
 
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