Had quite an interesting experience on 6 hbwr seeds taken sublingualy and one other taken orally crushed up, First off it took not long too kick in which is different from what ive heard from others but was probably from the sublingual administration which i would expect to be faster. The experience was much different than i was expecting and much less intense than i was expecting but also was probably because of the way i took them, the only real effects i felt was quite intense euphoria and laughing fits that would come out of no where and also felt like vertigo for legit one second then would go back to normal which i found very strange. Was an mild but enjoyable experience as i had the euphoria without any nausea but didnt have any visuals which was expected with such a low dose. Tomorrow I am trying 9 seeds all taken oralling as i want to actually experience the effects of this substance and compare it to my lsd experiences.
☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread - Part 3: Fluffy Dreams Continued
- Thread starter Solipsis
- Start date
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Sublingual does come on much faster, and it also seems subjectively weaker in the case of HBWR, for some reason. Also a lot less bodyload. When did you do your last experiment? You should wait a week at least since then, or else it won't be as strong.
Buzz Lightbeer
Bluelight Crew
I've done HWBR seeds twice, both times sublingual, once 4 and once 6 seeds, but I felt no effects apart from being extremely weak.
Like almost not being able to walk around weak, never feeling comfortable, not being able to sleep.. terrible experience, maybe I'll try it once more in the future, but I'm not expecting too much.
Maybe it was the seeds fault, no idea
Like almost not being able to walk around weak, never feeling comfortable, not being able to sleep.. terrible experience, maybe I'll try it once more in the future, but I'm not expecting too much.
Maybe it was the seeds fault, no idea
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Huh, that's odd. Despite HBWR seeds being much easier to get down, since it's only a few, I have found morning glory seeds to be a superior trip, although there is more initial nausea.
Yeah i definetly noticed the difference between sublingual method and the traditional method of taking the seeds. I waited exactly 7 days and i took 9 seeds orally last night and was much much stronger experience and was very enjoyable as i didnt experience much nausea after about half an hour after taking the seeds. The only thing i didnt like was at about the 6 hour mark i got quite a lot of cramps and struggled sleeping even though i was extremely tired which is weird.
ungelesene_bettlek
Bluelighter
Is there any "educated guess" on actice dose of LSH in humans?
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Anthem Acid
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I ordered some HBWR over the summer and they never came. Guess i got ripped off. Which is odd, since they're legal. I wasn't super bummed about missing out on them, though. I was in the midst of a super dry psychedelic summer as my acid dealer quit. LSA was my "well, you're too dumb to go the DNM route, so this is the best you can do" option.
Nothing against HBWR, I just really hate puking.
Nothing against HBWR, I just really hate puking.
Neuroborean
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Maybe this thread is just dead, but well, it's typical of some big n dandies,....
so,
I wanted to ask about the storage and potency of HBWR, I have a lot of them and I honestly don't know what to do,
maybe some extraction? I would like to grow some but I won't grow 50 grams... so then, I would like to do something but I guess are not going to be active?
Have you used succesfully seeds older than a year
?
so,
I wanted to ask about the storage and potency of HBWR, I have a lot of them and I honestly don't know what to do,
maybe some extraction? I would like to grow some but I won't grow 50 grams... so then, I would like to do something but I guess are not going to be active?
Have you used succesfully seeds older than a year
?
cosmic charlie
Bluelight Crew
I've had some of the most powerful psychedelic experiences on HBWR, like completely mind-blowing and incredibly euphoric. Sure the come-up can be a little ruff around the edges with some mild nausea and very confronting thoughts "not a bad thing in retrospect" the forced me to work thru inner issues. But at the three hour mark it shifts gears and becomes so pleasurable for me like on the level of MDMA but natural feeling and sedating. If the seeds are fresh it's a wonderful drug, I had a ++++ on ten seeds back in my early twenties.
Mjäll
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Maybe this thread is just dead, but well, it's typical of some big n dandies,....
so,
I wanted to ask about the storage and potency of HBWR, I have a lot of them and I honestly don't know what to do,
maybe some extraction? I would like to grow some but I won't grow 50 grams... so then, I would like to do something but I guess are not going to be active?
Have you used succesfully seeds older than a year
I always assume putting stuff in the freezer works. Just like keeping acid i would keep HBW in the freezer.
I recommend doing a cold water extraction with mint oil (containing formaldehyde theorized to convert LSA into LSH). It seemed to cause less side effects overall, perhaps due to different solubility of various alkaloids.
Potency might vary. I used doses between 10 and 18 seeds. 10 seeds would be a light to medium trip where i could explore my surroundings without debilitating fear of losing control. 18 would send me into "ego death" type sedentary states, especially if combined with harmala seeds. The synergy was great. Nausea and vasoconstriction are concerning especially with raw seeds or alcohol extract, and i don't plan to ever use HBW again but am very happy to have done it.
HBW is the only drug that has elongated my hands in a cartoonish way and HBW is the drug that taught me how to chant, or made me learn how to chant. It also enabled me once to Explain Everything in a seemingly satisfying way.
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Neuroborean
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Well, now it's a bit late, the seeds were in a dry place, but not in a cold place...
I knew about the mint oil stuff!! but never tried, maybe it could be a good experience, I also want to mix it with yohimbe, since I've read that it greatly improves the trip, in terms of energy and less vasoconstriction, which would be great!!
For me 7 seeds is ok, but I've tried with 10 too, which I loved, but I don't feel like going as high as 18
at least not at the moment, maybe when gaining more confidence about the substance again (2 years without using, but was one of my favourites). I never had nausea, just a bit of discomfort, but nothing serious, always did CWE.Have you tried different methods? like sublingual or oral with all the seed matter?
Is tripping with harmalas similar to ayahuasca or not that much? I see HBWR as a very spiritual trip, very earthy and full of shamanic power/healing, more that shrooms even, I see it as a great plant ally, more than recreational, but you know the mdma-like euphoria is SO GREAT sometimes.
What do you mean by chant? in terms of mantras or something like it? I tend to sing on LSA, it's very good for that, try to sing in duet or trio, it's fucking amazing (almost more than sex, that it's in fact awesome on this plant...)
red22
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Just transcribed Shulgin's write-up, 'Lysergamides from the Convolvulaceae spp.' from his article 'Psychotomimetic Agents' (1976).*
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29019952
*Psychotomimetic Agents by Alexander Shulgin. Chapter 4 in Medicinal Chemistry: A Series of Monographs, vol. 4 (Use, misuse, and abuse of psychopharmacological agents) (Gordon Maxwell, ed.), 1976, Academic Press Inc., New York, NY
Also, of interest:
Recently, it has been discovered that Metarhizium, a Claviceps-related fungus, and three Aspergillus fungi generate lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide and lysergic acid hydroxymethylethylamide (ergonovine) (lysergic acid amide is just a decomposition product; it is not generated*):
Several Metarhizium Species Produce Ergot Alkaloids in a Condition-Specific Manner. CE Leadmona, JK Sampsona, MD Mausta, AM Maciasa, SA Rehnerb, MT Kasson, DG Panaccione. 2 Jul 2020. Appl Environ Microbiol 86:e00373-20. DOI: 10.1128/AEM.00373-20
Independent Evolution of a Lysergic Acid Amide in Aspergillus Species. AM Jones, CR Steen, DG Panaccione. Nov 24, 2021. Applied and Environmental Microbiology 87:e01801-21. DOI: 10.1128/AEM.01801-21
Ergot Alkaloid-Producing Aspergillus Species with Entomopathogenic Capabilities. Abigail M. Jones & Daniel G. Panaccione. Division of Plant and Soil Sciences, West Virginia University, Morgantown, WV
*Ergine is not a biosynthetic endpoint in itself but rather a hydrolysis product of LAH and some additional ergot alkaloids (42, 44, 45).
42. Flieger M, Sedmera P, Vokoun J, Ricicova A, Rehacek Z. 1982. Separation of four isomers of lysergic acid α-hydroxyethylamide by liquid chromatography and their spectroscopic identification. J Chromatogr 236:453–459. Crossref. ISI.
44. Ramstad E. 1968. Chemistry of alkaloid formation in ergot. Lloydia 31:327–341.
45. Kleinerova E, Kybal J. 1973. Ergot alkaloids IV. Contribution to the biosynthesis of lysergic acid amides. Folia Microbiol (Praha) 18:390–392. Crossref. PubMed. ISI.
From the first article.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29019952
*Psychotomimetic Agents by Alexander Shulgin. Chapter 4 in Medicinal Chemistry: A Series of Monographs, vol. 4 (Use, misuse, and abuse of psychopharmacological agents) (Gordon Maxwell, ed.), 1976, Academic Press Inc., New York, NY
Also, of interest:
Recently, it has been discovered that Metarhizium, a Claviceps-related fungus, and three Aspergillus fungi generate lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide and lysergic acid hydroxymethylethylamide (ergonovine) (lysergic acid amide is just a decomposition product; it is not generated*):
Several Metarhizium Species Produce Ergot Alkaloids in a Condition-Specific Manner. CE Leadmona, JK Sampsona, MD Mausta, AM Maciasa, SA Rehnerb, MT Kasson, DG Panaccione. 2 Jul 2020. Appl Environ Microbiol 86:e00373-20. DOI: 10.1128/AEM.00373-20
Independent Evolution of a Lysergic Acid Amide in Aspergillus Species. AM Jones, CR Steen, DG Panaccione. Nov 24, 2021. Applied and Environmental Microbiology 87:e01801-21. DOI: 10.1128/AEM.01801-21
Ergot Alkaloid-Producing Aspergillus Species with Entomopathogenic Capabilities. Abigail M. Jones & Daniel G. Panaccione. Division of Plant and Soil Sciences, West Virginia University, Morgantown, WV
*Ergine is not a biosynthetic endpoint in itself but rather a hydrolysis product of LAH and some additional ergot alkaloids (42, 44, 45).
42. Flieger M, Sedmera P, Vokoun J, Ricicova A, Rehacek Z. 1982. Separation of four isomers of lysergic acid α-hydroxyethylamide by liquid chromatography and their spectroscopic identification. J Chromatogr 236:453–459. Crossref. ISI.
44. Ramstad E. 1968. Chemistry of alkaloid formation in ergot. Lloydia 31:327–341.
45. Kleinerova E, Kybal J. 1973. Ergot alkaloids IV. Contribution to the biosynthesis of lysergic acid amides. Folia Microbiol (Praha) 18:390–392. Crossref. PubMed. ISI.
From the first article.
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emkee_reinvented
Bluelighter
Maybe it allready mentined in the thread. But afaik, do this with all my Seeds, Nuts [Hazelnuts the exception], Lentils,
Beans [Mung/ Katjang Beans again shorter soak] and Peas. There soaking charts on internet with times.
All these are for normal food use btw. But all share one thing they are seeds and there for contain Enzyme-Inhibitor s [E-I s].
And HBWR and MGS most lightly too.
These are present to prevent hatching under wrong conditions. Not all seeds are so strict on hatching,
don t know if that is a indication they have no/ less E-I s. These substances are heavy on our digestive system,
as the body needs to use extra enzymes just to digest em. Enzymes are costly substances you rather save .
The E-I s depending on the plant the stuff came of have different soaking times. Imagine a artificial long rain washing out the E-I s.
And then the Seed can hatch. Off course thats the reason you should soak Poppy Seed very short, to wash the Morhine residue of.
But without letting the E-I s in the solution as they will cause ao gastric distress. And deplete the body s own enzymes.
As the acive alkaloid is within the seed i cant t see a reason not to do a good soak first.
Ecxept if someone knows if the Alkaloid s, would was out too.
Which seems unlightly, but can t give a yes/ no answer i just don t know.
After that there is a nice extraction TEK you could perform on the dried seeds.
Still have to do this, no exprerience with LSA.
Beans [Mung/ Katjang Beans again shorter soak] and Peas. There soaking charts on internet with times.
All these are for normal food use btw. But all share one thing they are seeds and there for contain Enzyme-Inhibitor s [E-I s].
And HBWR and MGS most lightly too.
These are present to prevent hatching under wrong conditions. Not all seeds are so strict on hatching,
don t know if that is a indication they have no/ less E-I s. These substances are heavy on our digestive system,
as the body needs to use extra enzymes just to digest em. Enzymes are costly substances you rather save .
The E-I s depending on the plant the stuff came of have different soaking times. Imagine a artificial long rain washing out the E-I s.
And then the Seed can hatch. Off course thats the reason you should soak Poppy Seed very short, to wash the Morhine residue of.
But without letting the E-I s in the solution as they will cause ao gastric distress. And deplete the body s own enzymes.
As the acive alkaloid is within the seed i cant t see a reason not to do a good soak first.
Ecxept if someone knows if the Alkaloid s, would was out too.
Which seems unlightly, but can t give a yes/ no answer i just don t know.
After that there is a nice extraction TEK you could perform on the dried seeds.
Still have to do this, no exprerience with LSA.
red22
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Semisynthetic ergoamides identified in a natural product for the first time:
“On the other hand, methylergometrine, methysergide, and lysergylalanine were detected, which have not yet been reported as compounds of Argyreia nervosa seeds.”
Paulke, A., Kremer, C., Wunder, C., Wurglics, M., Schubert-Zsilavecz, M., & Toennes, S. W. (2015). Studies on the alkaloid composition of the Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Argyreia nervosa, a common legal high. Forensic science international, 249, 281–293. DOI: 10.1016/j.forsciint.2015.02.011. 3. Results and Discussion, p. 283
Methylergometrine is lysergic acid butanolamide and lysergic acid hydroxymethylpropylamide. It is a methylated analog of ergometrine (lysergic acid propanolamide/lysergic acid hydroxymethylethylamide/ergonovine), a subject of interest in The Road to Eleusis (Wasson, Hofmann, Ruck, 1978), in chapter 2 (written by Hofmann). Methylergometrine was created by Hofmann, like LSD. “I used the method developed for the synthesis of ergonovine for the preparation of many chemical modifications of ergonovine. One of these partly synthetic derivatives of ergonovine was lysergic acid butanolamide. This is used today in obstetrics, replacing to a major extent ergonovine, under the brand name ‘Methergine’ to stop postpartum haemorrhage.”[1] Hofmann includes a trip report for ergometrine[2] and Owsley even said that Hofmann told him that it is “nearly identical to LSD in effect”, although that's a questionable claim, especially since Owsley also describes ergot as having “many highly psychedelic alkaloids.”[3]
Several others have also tried ergometrine in “higher-than-therapeutic” doses and also reported a psychedelic high. I added these references to Wikipedia (2nd par. under Pharmacology).
Some individuals also tried methylergometrine and published their comments in an article called ‘Entheogenic (Hallucinogenic) Effects of Methylergonovine’.[4]
Methysergide is methylated methylergometrine, i.e., methylmethylergometrine and lysergic acid hydroxymethylpropylmethylamide.
Lysergylalanine is a biosynthetic intermediate between the simpler ergoclavine alkaloids and the more complex ergoamides and ergopeptines. The study in question did not quantify their findings (e.g., mg per gm of seed material), but I suspect it was only found in trace amounts. I don’t know if it's an ergoamide.
There's also another trace ergoamide: 8-hydroxyergine.[5][6] So in total, assuming the above study is true, there are 6 natural ergoamides: ergine (“LSA”), 8-hydroxyergine, ergonovine, methylergonovine, methylmethylergonovine, and lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide.
1. Wasson, R. G.; Hofmann, Albert; Ruck, Carl A. P.; Webster, Peter (November 25, 2008). Forte, Robert (ed.). The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries (30th Anniversary ed.). Berkeley, Calif.: North Atlantic Books. ISBN 978-1-55643-752-6. https://books.google.com/books?id=7JC7EAAAQBAJ&pg=PA38 2. A Challenging Question and my Answer, p. 38
2. Same as above. “This was an experiment performed without attention to ‘set and setting’ but it proves that ergonovine possesses a psychotropic, mood-changing, slightly hallucinogenic activity when taken in the same amount [as an] effective dose of lysergic acid amide, the main constituent of ololiuhqui. Its potency is about one twentieth of the potency of LSD and about five times that of psilocybin.” p. 41
3. Bruce Eisner: Well, people could say the same thing about LSD, they could say there’s sassafras and there’s nutmeg in nature, and there is morning glories and ergot in nature, but you have to do the chemistry in order to make something that’s effective.
Owsley: No, that’s not true. Ergot contains many natural, highly psychedelic alkaloids. [Isoergine] is one of them; hydroxy-methyl-lysergamide is another one, and in fact, is considered nearly identical to LSD in effect. Albert [Hofmann] told me so himself. They believe that it was this derivative contained in extracts of [C. paspali] that was used in the [Eleusinian] Mysteries.
Interview with an Alchemist: Bear Owsley Interview. Bruce Eisner's Writings, Jan 10, 2004
4. Ott, J., & Neely, P. (1980). Entheogenic (Hallucinogenic) Effects of Methylergonovine. Journal of Psychedelic Drugs, 12(2), 165–166. DOI: 10.1080/02791072.1980.10471568
“Unlike LSD, however, both methylergonovine and ergonovine evoke lassitude and a dreamy semi-narcotic state, effects previously ascribed by Hofmann to d-lysergic acid amide (also known as ergine or LA-111), the active principle of the Mexican entheogenic drug ololiuhqui (Rivea [Turbina] corymbosa), also found in some strains of ergot (Hofmann 1964). In profound contrast to LSD, the somatic effects of methylergonovine and ergonovine overshadow the psychic effects, with uncomfortable somatic side effects likely to supervene at doses sufficient to elicit profound entheogenic effects. Accordingly, neither drug seems at all likely to displace LSD in the recreational drug scene.”
Further reading: https://nervewing.blogspot.com/2020/06/obscure-and-unknown-ergometrine-and.html
5. Flieger, M.; Linhartová, R.; Sedmera, P.; Zima, J.; Sajdl, P.; Stuchlík, J.; Cvak, L. (September 1, 1989). New Alkaloids of Claviceps paspali. Journal of Natural Products. 52 (5): 1003–1007. doi:10.1021/np50065a014. ISSN 0163-3864.
6. Petroski, Richard J.; Powell, Richard G.; Clay, Keith (March/April 1992). Alkaloids of Stipa robusta (sleepygrass) infected with an Acremonium endophyte. Natural Toxins. 1 (2): 84–88. doi:10.1002/nt.2620010205. ISSN 1056-9014
“8-Hydroxylysergic acid amide was isolated with difficulty as it was present as only a minor alkaloid in endophyte-infected sleepygrass (0.3 pg/g dry wt).” Results and Discussion, p. 87
I've posted a lot of info about this subject in my Shroomery Journal: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Journal/240779
“On the other hand, methylergometrine, methysergide, and lysergylalanine were detected, which have not yet been reported as compounds of Argyreia nervosa seeds.”
Paulke, A., Kremer, C., Wunder, C., Wurglics, M., Schubert-Zsilavecz, M., & Toennes, S. W. (2015). Studies on the alkaloid composition of the Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Argyreia nervosa, a common legal high. Forensic science international, 249, 281–293. DOI: 10.1016/j.forsciint.2015.02.011. 3. Results and Discussion, p. 283
Methylergometrine is lysergic acid butanolamide and lysergic acid hydroxymethylpropylamide. It is a methylated analog of ergometrine (lysergic acid propanolamide/lysergic acid hydroxymethylethylamide/ergonovine), a subject of interest in The Road to Eleusis (Wasson, Hofmann, Ruck, 1978), in chapter 2 (written by Hofmann). Methylergometrine was created by Hofmann, like LSD. “I used the method developed for the synthesis of ergonovine for the preparation of many chemical modifications of ergonovine. One of these partly synthetic derivatives of ergonovine was lysergic acid butanolamide. This is used today in obstetrics, replacing to a major extent ergonovine, under the brand name ‘Methergine’ to stop postpartum haemorrhage.”[1] Hofmann includes a trip report for ergometrine[2] and Owsley even said that Hofmann told him that it is “nearly identical to LSD in effect”, although that's a questionable claim, especially since Owsley also describes ergot as having “many highly psychedelic alkaloids.”[3]
Several others have also tried ergometrine in “higher-than-therapeutic” doses and also reported a psychedelic high. I added these references to Wikipedia (2nd par. under Pharmacology).
Some individuals also tried methylergometrine and published their comments in an article called ‘Entheogenic (Hallucinogenic) Effects of Methylergonovine’.[4]
Methysergide is methylated methylergometrine, i.e., methylmethylergometrine and lysergic acid hydroxymethylpropylmethylamide.
Lysergylalanine is a biosynthetic intermediate between the simpler ergoclavine alkaloids and the more complex ergoamides and ergopeptines. The study in question did not quantify their findings (e.g., mg per gm of seed material), but I suspect it was only found in trace amounts. I don’t know if it's an ergoamide.
There's also another trace ergoamide: 8-hydroxyergine.[5][6] So in total, assuming the above study is true, there are 6 natural ergoamides: ergine (“LSA”), 8-hydroxyergine, ergonovine, methylergonovine, methylmethylergonovine, and lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide.
1. Wasson, R. G.; Hofmann, Albert; Ruck, Carl A. P.; Webster, Peter (November 25, 2008). Forte, Robert (ed.). The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries (30th Anniversary ed.). Berkeley, Calif.: North Atlantic Books. ISBN 978-1-55643-752-6. https://books.google.com/books?id=7JC7EAAAQBAJ&pg=PA38 2. A Challenging Question and my Answer, p. 38
2. Same as above. “This was an experiment performed without attention to ‘set and setting’ but it proves that ergonovine possesses a psychotropic, mood-changing, slightly hallucinogenic activity when taken in the same amount [as an] effective dose of lysergic acid amide, the main constituent of ololiuhqui. Its potency is about one twentieth of the potency of LSD and about five times that of psilocybin.” p. 41
3. Bruce Eisner: Well, people could say the same thing about LSD, they could say there’s sassafras and there’s nutmeg in nature, and there is morning glories and ergot in nature, but you have to do the chemistry in order to make something that’s effective.
Owsley: No, that’s not true. Ergot contains many natural, highly psychedelic alkaloids. [Isoergine] is one of them; hydroxy-methyl-lysergamide is another one, and in fact, is considered nearly identical to LSD in effect. Albert [Hofmann] told me so himself. They believe that it was this derivative contained in extracts of [C. paspali] that was used in the [Eleusinian] Mysteries.
Interview with an Alchemist: Bear Owsley Interview. Bruce Eisner's Writings, Jan 10, 2004
4. Ott, J., & Neely, P. (1980). Entheogenic (Hallucinogenic) Effects of Methylergonovine. Journal of Psychedelic Drugs, 12(2), 165–166. DOI: 10.1080/02791072.1980.10471568
“Unlike LSD, however, both methylergonovine and ergonovine evoke lassitude and a dreamy semi-narcotic state, effects previously ascribed by Hofmann to d-lysergic acid amide (also known as ergine or LA-111), the active principle of the Mexican entheogenic drug ololiuhqui (Rivea [Turbina] corymbosa), also found in some strains of ergot (Hofmann 1964). In profound contrast to LSD, the somatic effects of methylergonovine and ergonovine overshadow the psychic effects, with uncomfortable somatic side effects likely to supervene at doses sufficient to elicit profound entheogenic effects. Accordingly, neither drug seems at all likely to displace LSD in the recreational drug scene.”
Further reading: https://nervewing.blogspot.com/2020/06/obscure-and-unknown-ergometrine-and.html
5. Flieger, M.; Linhartová, R.; Sedmera, P.; Zima, J.; Sajdl, P.; Stuchlík, J.; Cvak, L. (September 1, 1989). New Alkaloids of Claviceps paspali. Journal of Natural Products. 52 (5): 1003–1007. doi:10.1021/np50065a014. ISSN 0163-3864.
6. Petroski, Richard J.; Powell, Richard G.; Clay, Keith (March/April 1992). Alkaloids of Stipa robusta (sleepygrass) infected with an Acremonium endophyte. Natural Toxins. 1 (2): 84–88. doi:10.1002/nt.2620010205. ISSN 1056-9014
“8-Hydroxylysergic acid amide was isolated with difficulty as it was present as only a minor alkaloid in endophyte-infected sleepygrass (0.3 pg/g dry wt).” Results and Discussion, p. 87
I've posted a lot of info about this subject in my Shroomery Journal: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Journal/240779
Last edited:
red22
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“They are still sold by the brand Hemofarm albeit methylergometrine. Knowing about its supposed psychedelic effects i decided to try 2mgs. Nothing notable happened except extreme vasoconstriction in my legs. Does anybody know why it only worked peripherally?” loomenate, Aug 8, 2020, r/ObscureDrugs
red22
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I made some big changes to the Wikipedia LSA article. I added a 'Psychedelic Effects' section and expanded the 'Occurrence in Nature' section.
red22
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Would someone mind contacting one of the authors of Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess to ask him where this Jonathan Ott quote came from (or Jonathan Ott):
red22
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Looks like I found the source of the myth that HBWR hairs contain a poison and should be scraped or burned away:
“The standard procedure is to scrape or singe the white layer from the seed coat before grinding. This layer is believed to contain a strychnine-like alkaloid which may cause undesirable symptoms.”
The First Book of Sacraments of the Church of the Tree of Life: A Guide for the Religious Use of Legal Mind Alterants. John Mann (ed.), 1972, San Francisco: Tree of Life Press (OLOLUIQUE and related sacraments in the Morning Glory (Bindweed) family, p. 13)
The person who wrote that probably just got the seeds mixed up with peyote, also the victim of a similar rumor:
To put one persistent myth to rest, there is no strychnine in peyote. The white fuzz that is usually removed from the buttons before ingestion can be a gastroirritant, but it does not contain strychnine. However, lophophorine, accounting for about 0.18% of the dry weight of the buttons, can cause some symptoms similar to strychnine poisoning, such as a sickening feeling in the back of the head, and hotness and blushing of the face. Lophophorine causes violent convulsions when injected into rabbits at concentrations of 12 milligrams per kilogram of body weight.
Pharmako/Gnosis: Plant Teachers and the Poison Path. Dale Pendell, 2005, 2009. Peyote: Lophophora williamsii, page 106
And then someone twisted it even more out of shape and added this to UseNet:
“Note: the fuzzy coating on the outside contains cyanogenic glycosides which can make you really sick if you eat enough (same kind of stuff in apple seeds).”
Peter Jordan. Re: Woodrose vs Ipomoea. alt.drugs, UseNet, 10/1/1994 https://erowid.org/plants/hbw/hbw_info1.shtml
...Which Erowid archived and thus the myth that all these seeds contain cyanogenic glycosides came to be.
There is nothing in the seed coat that makes you sick. That is a myth. The sickness is caused by glycosides found inside the seed. I've eaten seeds scraped and not scraped and there is no difference what-so-ever in the degree of sickness produced.
morninggloryseed, 26-03-2004, https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/lsas-subthread-extraction-of-lsas.123944/post-1779004
I. tricolor seeds do contain resin glycosides, however, which are a problem:
“Among the most striking characteristics of the family is the occurrence of rows of secretory cells with milky, resinous contents. Resin glycosides are among the most important chemical characteristics of the family. The occurrence of tropine alkaloids in Convolvulus species and lysergic acid type alkaloids in Ipomoea and Rivea species as well as a wide distribution of cinnamic acid derivatives and coumarins are also noteworthy. The last two groups of compounds are common to both the Convolvulaceae and Solanaceae families.”
H. Wagner, 'The Chemistry of Resin Glycosides of the Convolvulaceae Family', p. 235 / Bendz G, Santesson J. (1973, 2013). Chemistry in Botanical Classification: Medicine and Natural Sciences: Medicine and Natural Sciences. Elsevier. ISBN 978-0-323-16251-7
“Resin glycosides are well known as purgative ingredients,”
Ono M (October 2017). "Resin glycosides from Convolvulaceae plants". Journal of Natural Medicines. 71 (4): 591–604. doi:10.1007/s11418-017-1114-5
Someone who wrote a textbook about Convolvulaceae says that cyanogenic glycosides are probably only found in a few species:
Eich E (January 12, 2008). Solanaceae and convolvulaceae - secondary metabolites: biosynthesis, chemotaxonomy, biological and economic significance: a handbook. Berlin, Heidelberg: Springer-Verlag. doi:10.1007/978-3-540-74541-9. ISBN 978-3-540-74540-2. OCLC 195613136
See 6.2 Cyanogenic Glycosides, p. 274
“The standard procedure is to scrape or singe the white layer from the seed coat before grinding. This layer is believed to contain a strychnine-like alkaloid which may cause undesirable symptoms.”
The First Book of Sacraments of the Church of the Tree of Life: A Guide for the Religious Use of Legal Mind Alterants. John Mann (ed.), 1972, San Francisco: Tree of Life Press (OLOLUIQUE and related sacraments in the Morning Glory (Bindweed) family, p. 13)
The person who wrote that probably just got the seeds mixed up with peyote, also the victim of a similar rumor:
To put one persistent myth to rest, there is no strychnine in peyote. The white fuzz that is usually removed from the buttons before ingestion can be a gastroirritant, but it does not contain strychnine. However, lophophorine, accounting for about 0.18% of the dry weight of the buttons, can cause some symptoms similar to strychnine poisoning, such as a sickening feeling in the back of the head, and hotness and blushing of the face. Lophophorine causes violent convulsions when injected into rabbits at concentrations of 12 milligrams per kilogram of body weight.
Pharmako/Gnosis: Plant Teachers and the Poison Path. Dale Pendell, 2005, 2009. Peyote: Lophophora williamsii, page 106
And then someone twisted it even more out of shape and added this to UseNet:
“Note: the fuzzy coating on the outside contains cyanogenic glycosides which can make you really sick if you eat enough (same kind of stuff in apple seeds).”
Peter Jordan. Re: Woodrose vs Ipomoea. alt.drugs, UseNet, 10/1/1994 https://erowid.org/plants/hbw/hbw_info1.shtml
...Which Erowid archived and thus the myth that all these seeds contain cyanogenic glycosides came to be.
There is nothing in the seed coat that makes you sick. That is a myth. The sickness is caused by glycosides found inside the seed. I've eaten seeds scraped and not scraped and there is no difference what-so-ever in the degree of sickness produced.
morninggloryseed, 26-03-2004, https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/lsas-subthread-extraction-of-lsas.123944/post-1779004
I. tricolor seeds do contain resin glycosides, however, which are a problem:
“Among the most striking characteristics of the family is the occurrence of rows of secretory cells with milky, resinous contents. Resin glycosides are among the most important chemical characteristics of the family. The occurrence of tropine alkaloids in Convolvulus species and lysergic acid type alkaloids in Ipomoea and Rivea species as well as a wide distribution of cinnamic acid derivatives and coumarins are also noteworthy. The last two groups of compounds are common to both the Convolvulaceae and Solanaceae families.”
H. Wagner, 'The Chemistry of Resin Glycosides of the Convolvulaceae Family', p. 235 / Bendz G, Santesson J. (1973, 2013). Chemistry in Botanical Classification: Medicine and Natural Sciences: Medicine and Natural Sciences. Elsevier. ISBN 978-0-323-16251-7
“Resin glycosides are well known as purgative ingredients,”
Ono M (October 2017). "Resin glycosides from Convolvulaceae plants". Journal of Natural Medicines. 71 (4): 591–604. doi:10.1007/s11418-017-1114-5
Someone who wrote a textbook about Convolvulaceae says that cyanogenic glycosides are probably only found in a few species:
Eich E (January 12, 2008). Solanaceae and convolvulaceae - secondary metabolites: biosynthesis, chemotaxonomy, biological and economic significance: a handbook. Berlin, Heidelberg: Springer-Verlag. doi:10.1007/978-3-540-74541-9. ISBN 978-3-540-74540-2. OCLC 195613136
See 6.2 Cyanogenic Glycosides, p. 274
emkee_reinvented
Bluelighter
Glycoside
"a naturally occurring chemical compound found in many plants, most notably in the seeds (kernels, pips or stones)"
"amygdalin and the enzymes necessary to hydrolyze it are stored in separate locations" so eating it would get em to gether.
And form the repellent. Or grinding them.
Amigdalin is a example, not necessary in HBWR, Claviceps or MGS.
A cyanogenic glycoside, like in Apple seed s. Cyano gets toxic btw.
As the Glycoside is cut off. By the body enzyme/ or the seeds ?
that is used up. Body enzymes are precious, don t wanna waste em.
β-Glucosidase, same goes for all the other predator/ germination preventors. Either you wash em out first, otherwise you will have to deplete your own precious enzymes. And suffer gastronic distress.
So Same for all seeds,
not that they necessary contain Amigdalin.
But they do contain Glycosides, maybe just not Cyanogenic ones
1. protection to predators
2. preventing germinating at the wrong time.
¨In some plants they control germination"
Any reason to believe LSA will wash out.
Along with the substance and the enzym,
responsabele for enzymatic-ally, converting it ?
First the enzyme inhibitor seemed the problem.
A second one presented. The Glycoside.
"a naturally occurring chemical compound found in many plants, most notably in the seeds (kernels, pips or stones)"
"amygdalin and the enzymes necessary to hydrolyze it are stored in separate locations" so eating it would get em to gether.
And form the repellent. Or grinding them.
Amigdalin is a example, not necessary in HBWR, Claviceps or MGS.
A cyanogenic glycoside, like in Apple seed s. Cyano gets toxic btw.
As the Glycoside is cut off. By the body enzyme/ or the seeds ?
that is used up. Body enzymes are precious, don t wanna waste em.
β-Glucosidase, same goes for all the other predator/ germination preventors. Either you wash em out first, otherwise you will have to deplete your own precious enzymes. And suffer gastronic distress.
So Same for all seeds,
not that they necessary contain Amigdalin.
But they do contain Glycosides, maybe just not Cyanogenic ones
1. protection to predators
2. preventing germinating at the wrong time.
¨In some plants they control germination"
Any reason to believe LSA will wash out.
Along with the substance and the enzym,
responsabele for enzymatic-ally, converting it ?
First the enzyme inhibitor seemed the problem.
A second one presented. The Glycoside.
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red22
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2009
- Messages
- 1,200
Jonathan Ott's "Ergoline Complex" chapter in Pharmacotheon: https://files.catbox.moe/58pcay.pdf
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