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The Dive's Covid Thread

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My definition of anti-vaxxer isn't somebody who doesn't want to get vaccinated. It's somebody who believes in a whole bunch of conspiracy crap and spends a lot of time trying to be a some kind of anti-vax activist by constantly spreading misinformation and conveniently ignoring truths that don't coincide with their erroneous beliefs.

People can be anti-vaxxers and only be against one vaccine.

Pro-vaxxers are just as bad.

Xorkoth said:
it's important to make a distinction between actual anti-vaxxers who refuse to protect their children against whooping cough, measles, etc, and people who are skeptical of one particular vaccine.
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Obsessively posting about conspiracy theories every day for years isn't a healthy level of scepticism IMO. If you don't want to have the jab, don't have it. That's fine. Doesn't make you an anti-vaxxer.
 
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bird.is.the.word said:
The vaccines don't work.
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Gee I dunno, that doesn't sound like a peer-reviewed opinion. Maybe we should wait on a second opinion from someone trustworthy, like that doctor over there who just got back from the medical conference hosted by the pharmaceutical company in Barbados for some reason.

We can't trust just any old antivaxxer, they aren't educated. They probably voted for Trump, too. Those don't sound like the sort of folks we can really trust. No, it's better to just trust the hypocrites we already tend to agree with.
 
I said to my parents (who are in their 70s) the other day: how many jabs are you willing to receive?

Somehow, they hadn't actually considered the fact that they're going to need to get jabbed 3 or 4 times a year... After 10 years, how much damage does that do to you?

If I was in my 90s, I don't know what I'd do in terms of getting vaccinated or not. I assume they (the vaccines) offer some level of protection. I stopped reading about the virus like a year ago, but I know the risk from COVID is very high when you're 90+.

Vaccines will undoubtedly improve over time, but - for the time being, anyway - they absolutely don't do what we were told they were going to do.

We were told jabbing young people would protect old people. The protection it provides doesn't justify jabbing kids, IMO.

They kept pushing the % higher and higher.

We just need to get to 80%.
Now we need to get to 85%.
Now we need to get to 90%.

Then they kept lengthening the age range.
So 90% becomes 80% and we need to start climbing again.

It's fucking unbelievable that people like @nepalnt21 are still so blindly in love with these vaccines. This is what I mean when I say pro-vaxxers are just as bad as anti-vaxxers. Young healthy people don't need to be jabbed with experimental drugs multiple times a year to protect themselves against a virus that causes mild flu-like symptoms. That's nuts.

...

As for people driving in their cars with masks on. I've done this (briefly) a couple of times now.

During the winter, I'll leave my mask on if I'm parked inner-city and I have to walk 10/15 minutes to my car after work. It gets fucking cold in Melbourne. A couple of times I've left it on and forgotten about it. My wife has done this also. I suspect most of the people I've judged for doing the same are probably in similar situations?
 
bird.is.the.word said:
It's fucking unbelievable that people like @nepalnt21 are still so blindly in love with these vaccines. This is what I mean when I say pro-vaxxers are just as bad as anti-vaxxers. Young healthy people don't need to be jabbed with experimental drugs multiple times a year to protect themselves against a virus that causes mild flu-like symptoms. That's nuts.
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I don't think it really is entirely about vaccines, the political element was always very apparent.

The same groups that provide campaign financing for centre-left parties would talk up "science" and "experts" and demonize antivaxxers, portraying them as uneducated bumpkins who should be looked down on. That's basically the entire newsmedia, which abused their position as arbiters of truth to the extreme that the majority of people no longer believe the newsmedia at all (caveat - "majority" from a Pew poll, so a representative sample at best)

On the flipside a lot of "antivax" voices were already established as alt-right/anti-woke activists and this became the latest battle to fight.

There were reasonable people who were not allowed to speak at all because the public health authorities sanctioned them, and the newsmedia of course ignored them, and the government even deputized social media corps to enforce the narrative by censoring "disinformation".

So when people talk about the vaccines now I think there's a bit of missing the forest for the trees. If this was about public health then all reasonable approaches would have been attempted and encouraged. Instead there was only one true way enforced and people are really shocked that some of us feel abused by our governments?
 
I personally get annoyed at the hardcore covid "anti vaxxers", like everyone's gonna drop dead, our bloud is pure, and what about this twitter post from this lady whose whole timeline is filled with crap. It's obvious bullshit, I'm still waiting on anything substantial.
Discredits so much and then you'll have these smug COVID nuts (aka most media for a long time) label every dissenting opinion in with the other nutters....
 
I don’t think everyone who took the vax will drop dead, although the increase in SADS should concern everyone…I don’t think everyone who took the vax will have bad side effects like blood clots heart problems ect. I don’t think anyone has said those things actually….What I do think is the risk is obviously high enough to make taking the vaccine for COVID absolutely bat shit
 
Las Veghost grower said:
Imo the fact that some people are saying they won’t get the new booster is kind of proof they are kinda breaking through the veil of denial, even if only slightly, cause if they truly believed the vax was for the most part safe and there is practically no possibility of long term side effects or even short term SADS clots , whatever, they would get the booster if they genuinely believed it only increased their chance of survival for free…denial is a tricky sombitch
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I never thought there was no chance of serious vaccine side effects, I just thought that the initial vaccine situation seemed like a favorable risk to reward ratio since it was quite effective against alpha, and alpha and delta were actually dangerous, I knew people who died in the first wave of covid and people who got really sick. I definitely thought about whether I should get vaccinated before I did and I am not without some amount of concern that it may have been the wrong choice, although I don't lay awake at night about it, or think it's very likely at all that I will end up regretting it. But the situation has just totally changed. The risk to reward ratio has become very unfavorable now. Omicron is a different disease. The vaccine doesn't seem to do anything against it, and I have seen a suspicious amount of people (including myself) get sick shortly after getting boosted, so I can't deny that it's possible there is actually negative efficacy (though I am not going to jump to it being proof by any means, because I also know people who got boosted and didn't get sick, actually plenty of them). Point is, if I had to bet money on it, I'm on the side of the vaccine is not going to hurt me, and is probably safer than omicron itself. But I'm not sure about that by any means. And I don't feel like I need to increase my chances of survival against omicron. I am fully confident in my ability to survive against this new covid, like I have always been confident in my ability to survive colds and the flu. So why would I take the risk that this vaccine push that I increasingly can't help but see as a cash grab, is actually worse than a cash grab and that some of you guys are actually right, all for a benefit I don't even need?

I don't feel like I've ever been in denial about this whole pandemic, I've continually changed my stance on the whole thing as it has progressed. I think it has become a cash grab, and partly was the whole time, big pharma is 100% a cash grab, always. I still think that the initial response to covid was sensible, and that it was a dangerous disease, which I lost extended family members to, and the vaccine was effective against the original virus and probably saved a ton of lives. But it just isn't a particularly dangerous disease anymore, and the vaccine doesn't even work against the new covid anyway. And now this latest push for the "new" vaccine has further reduced my trust in the situation. The research that its efficacy claims were based on is an absolute joke.

I actually feel like I've been more willing to change my stance throughout the pandemic than most other people I have observed, who have been firmly in a "camp" the whole time and if anything are only more entrenched now than ever.
 
It MAY effect everybody differently just like the germbomb did (c19). And what will happen next . . . we will see. Just taking a day off, and do not want any depth right now. Everyone's reaction is NOT BASE LINE. Thnx.
 
Xorkoth said:
I never thought there was no chance of serious vaccine side effects, I just thought that the initial vaccine situation seemed like a favorable risk to reward ratio since it was quite effective against alpha, and alpha and delta were actually dangerous, I knew people who died in the first wave of covid and people who got really sick. I definitely thought about whether I should get vaccinated before I did and I am not without some amount of concern that it may have been the wrong choice, although I don't lay awake at night about it, or think it's very likely at all that I will end up regretting it. But the situation has just totally changed. The risk to reward ratio has become very unfavorable now. Omicron is a different disease. The vaccine doesn't seem to do anything against it, and I have seen a suspicious amount of people (including myself) get sick shortly after getting boosted, so I can't deny that it's possible there is actually negative efficacy (though I am not going to jump to it being proof by any means, because I also know people who got boosted and didn't get sick, actually plenty of them). Point is, if I had to bet money on it, I'm on the side of the vaccine is not going to hurt me, and is probably safer than omicron itself. But I'm not sure about that by any means. And I don't feel like I need to increase my chances of survival against omicron. I am fully confident in my ability to survive against this new covid, like I have always been confident in my ability to survive colds and the flu. So why would I take the risk that this vaccine push that I increasingly can't help but see as a cash grab, is actually worse than a cash grab and that some of you guys are actually right, all for a benefit I don't even need?

I don't feel like I've ever been in denial about this whole pandemic, I've continually changed my stance on the whole thing as it has progressed. I think it has become a cash grab, and partly was the whole time, big pharma is 100% a cash grab, always. I still think that the initial response to covid was sensible, and that it was a dangerous disease, which I lost extended family members to, and the vaccine was effective against the original virus and probably saved a ton of lives. But it just isn't a particularly dangerous disease anymore, and the vaccine doesn't even work against the new covid anyway. And now this latest push for the "new" vaccine has further reduced my trust in the situation. The research that its efficacy claims were based on is an absolute joke.

I actually feel like I've been more willing to change my stance throughout the pandemic than most other people I have observed, who have been firmly in a "camp" the whole time and if anything are only more entrenched now than ever.
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I wasn’t talking about you, you are definitely one of the people who take a more logical approach…for me it was always as simple as COVID had a almost 0% chance of killing me and the vaccine had no long term data or even real trials to this day since the lack of a control group, and how fast is got emergency use, the choice was obvious for me
 
Las Veghost grower said:
I wasn’t talking about you, you are definitely one of the people who take a more logical approach…for me it was always as simple as COVID had a almost 0% chance of killing me and the vaccine had no long term data or even real trials to this day since the lack of a control group, and how fast is got emergency use, the choice was obvious for me
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They had a control group then went and nuked possible long term data by allowing the control group to get vaxxed, lol

www.npr.org

Long-Term Studies Of COVID-19 Vaccines Hurt By Placebo Recipients Getting Immunized

Researchers are trying to learn more about COVID-19 vaccines from original study participants. The quest is hampered because many people who first received a placebo shot are opting for the vaccine.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
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