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The Last Covid-19 Megathread v. Hopefully...

bird.is.the.word said:
@Snafu in the Void

Let me ask you this: are you 100% convinced that we are better off (long term) having implemented vaccine mandates and mask mandates and lockdowns?

I understand your reaction to conspiracy stuff on the anti-vax side, but what do you think about extreme opinions on the pro-vax side?

Being anti-vax is an entirely human reaction to an insane situation where people's personal rights were taken away without sufficient justification. The governments of the world lied to us. It makes sense that people are shouting conspiracy. (I think the conspiracy stuff is crazy too, for the record.)

The fundamentalist pro-vax stance is more alarming. Both ignore science, but one does it while suckling the teat of a dictatorship.
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Nah man, I'm indifferent about lockdowns. I no longer agree with forced vaccines and respect anyone who doesn't want one, but don't really care either for different petty reasons. I don't really care about vaccines anymore and don't plan on getting another one. I question their effectiveness for the average person.

I'm very middle ground now on a lot of it.

I just fucking hate people who look at a partially minute amount of data on the internet then make sweeping conclusions as if they are now qualified medical scientists or statistics experts, it's embarrassing.

I love conspiracy theories, but the covid conspiracy theories suck ass and are dumb.
 
thujone said:
I don't even read Epoch Times anymore because of how much ragebait they publish now. This is part of the greater problem that COVID et al is also entangled in -

We're sick of being lied to by people who insinuate that they are trustworthy.

The official data raises questions that go unanswered by the establishment. I literally have watched the parliamentary sessions where the opposition party raises questions we're all interested in knowing the answer to and getting publicly stonewalled by a minority government.

Why is it a surprise people will reach for "alt" news that they kind of suspect is biased but where you can at least find mention of things the corporate newsmedia basically lies about by omission?

Let's not pretend things that could be happening are definitely not happening and then some trust may be re-established.
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Agree with all of that.

But personally "alt news" from BOTH makes me cringe and regurgitate a bit. It's often even more biased than mainstream and often extremely speculative with no sources provided. It's usually an OPINION piece and not true journalism.

The fact is neither side of the political divide is free from establishment lies or manipulation, their tendrils run deep. There is no 2 party system in the US... the establishment owns both the Republicans and Democrats.

It pisses me off that some people refuse to even consider some data from NPR (not sure if they have that in CA?) because it leans left. They won't even look at it, and that's dumb. I look at right leaning covid stuff and I always come to my own conclusion. I've looked at all the data antivaxxers link and have never been convinced or always had further further questions/wanted mote data/or could easily point out the data doesn't prove anything.

If you belive one side does nothing but lie so deeply that you refuse to even look at or consider they may be correct... you are probably 50% wrong on a lot of stuff. Think about that.

Realistically speaking both the left and right are probably around 50/50 on a lot of issues in terms of reasoning, data, science. They just focus on their own correct points and paint the others as illogical, wrong, or just blatant lies. There is zero chance that the right or left is 100% correct on any given issue.

I'm just talking in general, not about you specifically.
 
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A quick note on the COVID-19 antiviral drug Paxlovid:

Don't take Paxlovid if you are activy dependent on kratom as it will precipitate kratom withdrawal. One of the components of the Paxlovid is ritonavir, which is a powerful CYP450 inducer/inhibitor. This eventually stops the conversion of mitragynine to 7-hydroxymitragynine, which is what is responsible for the much of the opioid of kratom.

I had COVID recently, and while I didn't get particularly sick (mainly just had a bad headache and pretty significant fever) I got some paxlovid and in hopes it would reduce my chance of developing long covid. But after my first dose, I start yawning, watery eyes, feeling cold, joint aches, etc and then realize, "shit isn't ritonavir a powerful CYP450 inhibitor 🤯...this is causing precipitated withdrawal from kratom". Sure enough, I looked it up, and there are reports of precipitated withdrawal from kratom due to paxlovid, with one guy ending up in the hospital. So that cut my Paxlovid experience short.

Granted, if you are at serious risk of complications from COVID then still take the Paxlovid, but you are going to want to get something like buprenorphine to take in the meantime as Paxlovid precipitates kratom withdrawal somewhere after 45 minutes of consuming it.
 
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@negrogesic that's crazy/good to know. This paper I'm reading says it showed both strong inhibition and indcution on CYP 3a4. But good to know it throws you into withdrawal... sucks.

There are a lot of drugs metabolized by 3a4.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
@negrogesic that's crazy/good to know. This paper I'm reading says it showed both strong inhibition and indcution on CYP 3a4. But good to know it throws you into withdrawal... sucks.

There are a lot of drugs metabolized by 3a4.
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Yeah, what i said was a bit misleading since its the inhibition that causes the precipitated withdrawal in the case of kratom. Ritonavir can increase blood levels of hydrocodone and oxycodone significantly however.

But in any event, the precipitated withdrawal was crystal clear, out of nowhere I was freezing cold and yawning uncontrollably, neither of which had been occurring previously. I read about a guy with a kratom habit that didn't figure out what was happening and took the entire course of Paxlovid, suffering severe RLS and withdrawal thinking it was just a combination of COVID symptoms and Paxlovid side-effects.
 
@negrogesic yeah I believe it man, the first major symptoms of kratom withdrawal for me are repetitive yawning, runny nose and eyes, fatigue and the body aches

Good to know about paxlovid. I wonder what other drugs it effects.
 
This is from a Holland study

Ritonavir causes 622 of Paxlovid's 628 bad drug interactions by interfering with hepatic cytochrome P450, notably the 3A4 subtype, CYP3A4, which is the key enzyme for metabolizing drugs
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www.mdpi.com

The Mechanism-Based Inactivation of CYP3A4 by Ritonavir: What Mechanism?

Ritonavir is the most potent cytochrome P450 (CYP) 3A4 inhibitor in clinical use and is often applied as a booster for drugs with low oral bioavailability due to CYP3A4-mediated biotransformation, as in the treatment of HIV (e.g., lopinavir/ritonavir) and more recently COVID-19 (Paxlovid or...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com
 
-=SS=- said:
Nano sized particles don't require anything to 'hitch a ride on'.
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my bad, i should have tagged you when i asked this earlier today...

can you link me to a study that shows sars-cov-2 transmission is substantially or at all done by individual airborne viral particles?
 
bird.is.the.word said:
That's enough data for me.
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you studied stastics at the university level and a single anecdote is enough data for you?

was this the same university kent hovind got his 'doctorate' from, by chance?

i kid, i kid... but for real... you do know that one outlier should not dictate policy, right?
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Everyone I know in life, including my 65yo father who has nearly died several times in the past from serious blood clots on numerous times in his legs and lungs got vaccinated 3 times and was fine and healthy. He's a lifelong alcoholic and is one of the least healthy person I know and had no vaccine side effects.

That's enough for me, right?

My point is neither of us have the experience, total data nor qualifications to come to any concrete conclusions.

I can't help but doubt people's anecdotal 2nd hand stories because there's been so many frivolous ones made in the past such as professional sports players dropping dead from vaccines which never happened, or someone who KNOWS FOR SURE that they have 10 friends of friend's family members who all died from the vaccine.
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Never happened eh ?
 
“Can’t be sure it’s the vaccine” give me a fucking break

covidvaccinesideeffects.com

Athletes who have collapsed during play or training in 2021 / 2022 - Covid Vaccine Side Effects & Information

Are the COVID-19 vaccines causing heart and respiratory problems in athletes? Much has been made about athletes collapsing on the pitch, in the middle of games, practices or working out. While most people have talked about soccer (football) players, athletes from many different sports have had...
covidvaccinesideeffects.com
 
@Snafu in the Void
@nepalnt21

I assume you both acknowledge there is a risk of dying with the vaccines. If so, you are asking for data to disprove the assumption that everybody who is at risk of dying from the clots are also equally (or more) at risk of dying from the virus.

You can't prove that.

The entire pro-vax argument is about playing the odds. If you're less likely to die from the vaccine, it makes sense to get jabbed. But nobody knows [on an individual basis] what the odds are. If you knew individual odds when you played blackjack, you'd be a millionaire.

Nobody knows 100% who is going to get a blood clot and die from a vaccine. Nobody knows 100% who is going to die from the virus.

It is the roll of a dice.

If you're suggesting that everyone who dies from a vaccine would have died from the virus anyway, the onus is on you to prove that. I'm not suggesting the opposite. I'm saying we don't know.

If you think I'm withholding stats or sources, indicate what you think I need to provide here because from my end I'm good.

That's enough for me, right?
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To justify what... Scepticism?
 
nepalnt21 said:
can you link me to a study that shows sars-cov-2 transmission is substantially or at all done by individual airborne viral particles?
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Can you link me a study that shows the opposite in a precise quantified manner?

The answer is no, to both. As I said before, it is impossible to quantify such things due to the scale involved. Simple logic would presume that viral particles would be transmissible on their own, or through a vector (another particle they could get 'stuck' to), but the point being it isn't a requirement to have that additional vector to adhere to.
 
Las Veghost grower said:
Not surprised
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It's a list of of spontaneous deaths from athletes, which happens all the time my dude. It gives absolutely no proof or link to the vaccine. It gives no sources for the deaths.

Spontaneous sports deaths are more common than you think. It happened so often when I lived in AZ that the state of Arizona passed a law back in early 2000s which required all schools to have defibrillators on the field for each practice and game because teenagers were dying in football games.

I personally had a friend who was a physical trainer in his early 30s and randomly died during a jog one day.... years before covid vaccines.

This dumb pdf you linked is nothing more than speculative nonsense.

And apparently you can't even explain it to me when I asked, I don't think you even understand it yourself. You see someone tell you something and you believe it without question or any attempt to verify.

I swear man you'd see a random stray dog die and immediately blame vaccines...

Lol and "covidvaccinesideeffects.com" come on dude
 
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@bird.is.the.word the research I've seen on the matter which looks legit, is peer reviewed, and has glorious sources, showed the risk of dying from the vaccine due to blood clots or myocarditis is astronomically low. Like 0.0003%. Better chance of getting struck by lightning.

I vaguely remember talking about that data with you.

I've never seen anything that that proves or even suggests that the vaccines are just as or more dangerous than covid itself.
 
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Snafu in the Void said:
It's a list of of spontaneous deaths from athletes, which happens all the time my dude. It gives absolutely no proof or link to the vaccine. It gives no sources for the deaths.

Spontaneous sports deaths are more common than you think. It happened so often when I lived in AZ that the state of Arizona passed a law back in early 2000s which required all schools to have defibrillators on the field for each practice and game because teenagers were dying in football games.

I personally had a friend who was a physical trainer in his early 30s and randomly died during a jog one day.... years before covid vaccines.

This dumb pdf you linked is nothing more than speculative nonsense.

And apparently you can't even explain it to me when I asked, I don't think you even understand it yourself. You see someone tell you something and you believe it without question or any attempt to verify.

I swear man you'd see a random stray dog die and immediately blame vaccines...

Lol and "covidvaccinesideeffects.com" come on dude
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There hasn’t been a large Increase? Yea it happened but it happening a shitload more often, drrrrtadrrrrr
 
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