Bupe What exactly is the Bupe "honeymoon period"?

[Man67]

Bupe is only a partial Opioid agonist (Mu-Morphine receptor), but it’s a full K-Kappa Receptor antagonist! I think that second part is crucial, because K-receptor agonism causes Dysphoria. In fact, recent studies show that Serotonin deficiency is only partially responsible for severe depression. It’s just one block, but there are several other systems that effect it, to include the Endogenous Cannaboid System and Endogenous Opioid System, in particular dynorphines that agonize the K-Receptor. By antagonizing the K-Receptors, it limits dynorphin binding, thus helping with depression in a completely different manner than SSRIs or SNRIs.

Low-dose Bupe is off-label prescribed for treatment resistant depression, but it’s in trials where low-dose Bupe is combined with another drug and it’s supposed to be great for depression.

Thanks for the useful info. Now, I have a very tricky question. What is considered low-dose Bupe. So far I found several different answers. Officially, 16mg is an average medium dose. Does that mean that everything under that is a low dose? Personally, I don't think so. 16mg was my initial dose but after 3-4 days I cut it in half. It was too strong for me and made me feel tired and sleep all day. It did help with the withdrawal, pain and the depression but I couldn't function and felt like somebody who just took several sleeping pills. When I started 8mg everything was OK with no major side effects. After a week I decided to cut it in half again and try 4mg. No major difference during the day but this time I couldn't sleep at all. I managed to stay on it for exactly 5 days but I was physically exhausted and tired. Even the Stilnox combined with benzo couldn't help me with sleep. Since then, I am on 8mg again and it works just fine. I just feel normal again and that is all I need. If 32mg is a maximum that's mean that I take 1/4 of it. Does that belong in a low-dose category or is it still too much?

 

[Man67]

I've now been on Bupe for 6 days, did 12 Mg the first day and 8 Mg since. Hoping tomorrow not to take any -- since it's only been 6 days hopefully that won't cause withdrawal.

I will say the last few days I've gotten a tremendous buzz each time I've taken 8 MG. I've taken Bupe twice before and have never gotten a buzz I am this time around. Kind of a pleasant surprise.

Good on you mate. I also had a pleasant buzz on 8 mg but it disappeared after a month. If you feel fine and don't need Subs anymore I wish you all the best. I won't give you any advice because only YOU knew how your body works. Cheers.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

Good on you mate. I also had a pleasant buzz on 8 mg but it disappeared after a month. If you feel fine and don't need Subs anymore I wish you all the best. I won't give you any advice because only YOU knew how your body works. Cheers.

I had always heard there was no buzz whatsoever with Bupe unless you were totally opiate naive. Previous switches from Oxy to Bupe had been difficult, but this time I weened down and took only Hydro the last few days before doing the induction; this time it was completely smooth; I got up at 5:00 am in full withdrawal after being up all night, felt terrible, took the Bupe and -- I'm not kidding -- an hour later I was in the gym doing a full workout and feeling great. So that was a shocking surprise in and of itself. This really good buzz has just been icing on the cake, and I haven't missed Oxy one single bit.

 

[cdin]

I had always heard there was no buzz whatsoever with Bupe unless you were totally opiate naive. Previous switches from Oxy to Bupe had been difficult, but this time I weened down and took only Hydro the last few days before doing the induction; this time it was completely smooth; I got up at 5:00 am in full withdrawal after being up all night, felt terrible, took the Bupe and -- I'm not kidding -- an hour later I was in the gym doing a full workout and feeling great. So that was a shocking surprise in and of itself. This really good buzz has just been icing on the cake, and I haven't missed Oxy one single bit.

thats marketing nonsense. despite being a partial agonist it's super fucking potent. it can sub for methadone or huge dope habits. you feel great/a buzz because it's much stronger than what you were on, despite not having such an in your face intoxication.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

thats marketing nonsense. despite being a partial agonist it's super fucking potent. it can sub for methadone or huge dope habits. you feel great/a buzz because it's much stronger than what you were on, despite not having such an in your face intoxication.

But the funny thing is both times I've gone from a 120 - 150 mg/day Oxy habit to Bupe it took two full days to start really feeling any substantial relief. I waited a full 24 hours from the last O to induct bupe and other than maybe slowing down the sweating and pulse rate I still felt like I was 80% in withdrawal. I figured that was because Oxy has so much more intrinsic / agonist strength that the bupe just couldn't replace it immediately.

This time is was absolutely perfect, but I had weened the Oxy dose way down had only been taking Hydro for two days prior to induction. I'm not kidding, I put the Bupe under my tongue and within 10 minutes I felt substantially better and within an hour I was happy and energetic and pushing some heavy weight in the gym.

 

[Man67]

But the funny thing is both times I've gone from a 120 - 150 mg/day Oxy habit to Bupe it took two full days to start really feeling any substantial relief. I waited a full 24 hours from the last O to induct bupe and other than maybe slowing down the sweating and pulse rate I still felt like I was 80% in withdrawal. I figured that was because Oxy has so much more intrinsic / agonist strength that the bupe just couldn't replace it immediately.

This time is was absolutely perfect, but I had weened the Oxy dose way down had only been taking Hydro for two days prior to induction. I'm not kidding, I put the Bupe under my tongue and within 10 minutes I felt substantially better and within an hour I was happy and energetic and pushing some heavy weight in the gym.

My Dr. told me that I should start Subs immediately after withdrawal symptoms start. He advised me to try and taper down Oxy as much as I could. I followed his instructions and everything went fine. After my first dose I almost forgot about my previous life. Pure miracle.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

My Dr. told me that I should start Subs immediately after withdrawal symptoms start. He advised me to try and taper down Oxy as much as I could. I followed his instructions and everything went fine. After my first dose I almost forgot about my previous life. Pure miracle.

I'm having that same miracle now; I've done it twice before and it never took away the craving but this time has been perfect., no cravings, I don't miss it a bit and a heckuva lot cheaper. The only reason I can think of that it didn't go this well last time is the higher dose; last time even after a week of taking Bupe I didn't feel very good so I think your doctor is right about needing to taper down as much as you can.

I'm surprised your Doc said to start "immediately" after W/D starts. Mine told me to go as long as I can, at least 18 hours and 24 if possible to avoid precipitated withdrawal. This time with the help of Clonidine and Adderall (another miracle cocktail for that 18-24 hours before induction) it was really pretty pain free. So thankful, and tomorrow I'm free of Bupe as well but keeping the rest around in case I'm tempted to fall off the wagon.

 

[plumbus-nine]

As half-life means half of substance is still present, so you'll have with a half life of ~9hrs after 18hrs 1/4 of the initial dosage, after 27hrs 1/8 etc you want to wait as long as possible before introducing the buprenorphine. In my experience it is possible to train your body to support this longer, at first when using as prescribed one morphine XR in morning and one at night I was sometimes using one more at noon and started to feel withdrawing if I didn't take the noon one. Then a buddy surprised me by telling me that she crushed morphine (so instant release) and took it all at once, every 2 days, for to still feel it. Upon that I de-XR-d my morphine and slowly extended the intakes, indeed did real withdrawal (sneezing, shits, heavy misery) eventually only come after two days. So I'd be careful with introducing bupe too early. As I was on pregabalin as well which suppresses opioid withdrawal the extension of duration might not work for you though,

 

[cdin]

But the funny thing is both times I've gone from a 120 - 150 mg/day Oxy habit to Bupe it took two full days to start really feeling any substantial relief. I waited a full 24 hours from the last O to induct bupe and other than maybe slowing down the sweating and pulse rate I still felt like I was 80% in withdrawal. I figured that was because Oxy has so much more intrinsic / agonist strength that the bupe just couldn't replace it immediately.

This time is was absolutely perfect, but I had weened the Oxy dose way down had only been taking Hydro for two days prior to induction. I'm not kidding, I put the Bupe under my tongue and within 10 minutes I felt substantially better and within an hour I was happy and energetic and pushing some heavy weight in the gym.

bupe has a higher binding affinity at mu than just about anything else. maybe the notazenes or some fent analogues, but any standard opioid it out binds by a mile.

 

[Man67]

I'm having that same miracle now; I've done it twice before and it never took away the craving but this time has been perfect., no cravings, I don't miss it a bit and a heckuva lot cheaper. The only reason I can think of that it didn't go this well last time is the higher dose; last time even after a week of taking Bupe I didn't feel very good so I think your doctor is right about needing to taper down as much as you can.

I'm surprised your Doc said to start "immediately" after W/D starts. Mine told me to go as long as I can, at least 18 hours and 24 if possible to avoid precipitated withdrawal. This time with the help of Clonidine and Adderall (another miracle cocktail for that 18-24 hours before induction) it was really pretty pain free. So thankful, and tomorrow I'm free of Bupe as well but keeping the rest around in case I'm tempted to fall off the wagon.

That's about the same because my withdrawal usually started around 24 hours since the last dose. How long have you been been on Subs and how did you manage to quit? Cold turkey or tappering?

 

[mmchase8680]

So I’m just starting on the subs and what I want to know is am I gonna be okay I mean am I gonna feel OK or am I gonna miss the opiates I was taking is this a real substitute or just a good Band-Aid is it working for anyone really or are you sort of always miserable

 

[Man67]

So I’m just starting on the subs and what I want to know is am I gonna be okay I mean am I gonna feel OK or am I gonna miss the opiates I was taking is this a real substitute or just a good Band-Aid is it working for anyone really or are you sort of always miserable

YES, you are going to be OK and NO you are not gonna miss opiates at all. Give it a week or two to reach it's full potential but you will feel better immediately after your 1st dose. Just remember, always take your Subs at the same time of the day. Leave it under the tongue until it fully dissolves (10-15min)and dont eat or drink anything for another 30 minutes. How much do you take?

 

[Man67]

I'm having that same miracle now; I've done it twice before and it never took away the craving but this time has been perfect., no cravings, I don't miss it a bit and a heckuva lot cheaper. The only reason I can think of that it didn't go this well last time is the higher dose; last time even after a week of taking Bupe I didn't feel very good so I think your doctor is right about needing to taper down as much as you can.

I'm surprised your Doc said to start "immediately" after W/D starts. Mine told me to go as long as I can, at least 18 hours and 24 if possible to avoid precipitated withdrawal. This time with the help of Clonidine and Adderall (another miracle cocktail for that 18-24 hours before induction) it was really pretty pain free. So thankful, and tomorrow I'm free of Bupe as well but keeping the rest around in case I'm tempted to fall off the wagon.

Just to check on you. How are you feeling and is everything OK? Have you managed to quit Suboxone without major side effects? All the best mate.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Just like an opioid in the honeymoon period, but it's special properties poise it as effective against some symptoms for a much longer duration.

 

[Man67]

Just like an opioid in the honeymoon period, but it's special properties poise it as effective against some symptoms for a much longer duration.

Any general idea how long it's effective in treating depression? Months, years....?

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Any general idea how long it's effective in treating depression? Months, years....?

As far as my layman's knowledge goes, it can effectively treat some forms of depression just as an SSRI might. Doesn't mean that it will for everyone, and doesn't mean that it can't "poop out" like others can. Also, some positives only remain for the aforementioned honeymoon period. It's quite a heavy burden to come off of. It wasn't created with the intent of people eventually getting off of it. Lots of lamenting about how people struggle to cut those little pills and films into quarters or smaller.

 

[Man67]

As far as my layman's knowledge goes, it can effectively treat some forms of depression just as an SSRI might. Doesn't mean that it will for everyone, and doesn't mean that it can't "poop out" like others can. Also, some positives only remain for the aforementioned honeymoon period. It's quite a heavy burden to come off of. It wasn't created with the intent of people eventually getting off of it. Lots of lamenting about how people struggle to cut those little pills and films into quarters or smaller.

Thanks for your insight. I wouldn't mind staying on Subs for life, if it just gives me some benefits, especially regarding mental health. I've been taking antidepressants for the last 15 years but I don't think they work anymore. I was told that most likely i'll have to take them forever. So what's the difference? I would rather be on Suboxone which is (in my case) substitute for several pills: 1.Opioid painkillers (Oxy, Codeine), 2. Antidepressants (Lexapro, Endep). My Oxy addiction is gone as well as my chronic pain. So i didn't take anything stronger than a paracetamol since I started Bupe. At the moment I am tapering Lexapro and I am already on half a dose. My plan is to completely eliminate everything by the end of the year. If I manage to do this I would be only on Subs and an occasional sleeping pill. 6 months ago I was taking between 10-15 tablets per day. I just hope that Suboxone works as long as possible as I really don't have any other alternative. My Dr. told me that I can switch to Sublocade any time but I am still not ready for it.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

Just to check on you. How are you feeling and is everything OK? Have you managed to quit Suboxone without major side effects? All the best mate.

Thank you for checking. Yes Sir -- I haven't taken bupe in over a week. I still have tons of it so I figure I might take a couple of mgs a week -- it did make me feel really good and gave me a substantial high I didn't expect (when going directly from Oxy to bupe there was no high, only 20% less misery for a day or two before taking away most-but-not-all WD symptoms. But this time is truly felt like the miracle drug I've heard it is.

 

[Man67]

Thank you for checking. Yes Sir -- I haven't taken bupe in over a week. I still have tons of it so I figure I might take a couple of mgs a week -- it did make me feel really good and gave me a substantial high I didn't expect (when going directly from Oxy to bupe there was no high, only 20% less misery for a day or two before taking away most-but-not-all WD symptoms. But this time is truly felt like the miracle drug I've heard it is.

Well done mate. Do whatever you think is the best for your body. It's great that you have some leftovers, just in case. It puts your mind at ease and can be useful in case of the minor crisis. Stay strong.

 

[deficiT]

Thank you for checking. Yes Sir -- I haven't taken bupe in over a week. I still have tons of it so I figure I might take a couple of mgs a week -- it did make me feel really good and gave me a substantial high I didn't expect (when going directly from Oxy to bupe there was no high, only 20% less misery for a day or two before taking away most-but-not-all WD symptoms. But this time is truly felt like the miracle drug I've heard it is.

That's good it worked for you. I'm currently battling severe opioid paws from years of dope and kratom. Bupe has been a life saver, but I'm running out I only have 2mg left. I used to take 16mg a day Suboxone. I am seeing a new doctor on Saturday to get back on it. I would like to be on the equivalent of 12mg zubsolv. I hear it just works and dissolves better.