Nas47
Road-Weary Traveler
They work for me.that is enough
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Mental Health Depression NOT caused by low serotonin
- Thread starter Ismene2
- Start date
No its not.
Nas47
Road-Weary Traveler
Sorry don't understand you
Nas47
Road-Weary Traveler
No i think that md are based upon a multiple scientific evidence.Can't get your quote on memory now,vut they (md-ed drugs,) are work good in small doses...for me thats mean 0.2 g drued good shrooms.Can feel it &sure than they raise your serotonin,fight depression&lots of other various health benefits-thete a enough reports about this
I think the only evidence I ever saw that SSRI were more effective than a sugar pill was in fairly rare "severe depression" cases. But that's research done by the fakers in the industry themselves so whether you can trust any of it is another thing.
How do you feel it helps you Nas? When I was on them I just slept all the time but I did notice a slight decrease in anxiety along with the massive weight gain.
Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
depression is acutally a dopamine thing.
Phobos
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If something makes you feel better it doesn't mean that it's a cure.
I mean if I had pneumonia and took meth I'd feel better like less pain, no fever, more energy, airways would feel less obstructed.
Modern medicine has this symptom based approach that is really fucked up.
Nas47
Road-Weary Traveler
What we talkin'about man?AD drugs or micro/lower dose regime of psychedelicks?If talk about ADvdrugs-they did not help me very much,got bad side effects and I am against them.Low dose psylocibine regime for a week-real quixk antidepressive effect,more focus on work tasks,novel thoughts....balancing tool somekind....so microdosing-yes.AD drugs-no.That is for me.For some other ssri/snri could change his life,save him from suicide...i don't know......different people....different provlems
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Nas47
Road-Weary Traveler
No...think no...they work(if they do so)very slowly,need a time(months to build up in system)so is really hard to say...but more prone to believe,that this meds are created for profit only.....so I cannot tell that ssri helped me someway.Just another fuckin' addiction.Got lowest possible dose zoloft-25mg and toke it everymorning from eight months may be....and got lot of that shit and not even one shroom.....must wait the autumn
I read somewhere that an SSRI increases the rate of beta-endorphin production. Perhaps that mechanism is closer to the truth.
Phobos
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There is research on the interaction between SSRIs and BDNF (Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor, a sort of repair hormone for the CNS) and apparently SSRIs can bind to a receptor called TrkB and increase the response to BDNF, but they take weeks to reach a sufficient concentration as they bind to SERT with much higher affinity than they do TrkB.
Ketamine OTOH, binds with TrkB with a similar affinity as it does the NMDA receptor, and they think that's why Ketamine acts so quickly.
thegreenhand
Bluelight Crew
Imo the question to be asking isn’t “do SSRI/SNRIs anti depressants work?” but rather “why do they only work for some people?”
I understand why people claim that they are ’no better than placebo’… on a population wide level this is likely true. But that completely ignores the fact that certain people see tremendous benefits from them. What makes them unique ?
The same question should be asked for any class of antidepressants (or any class of psychiatric drug for that matter). Its frivolous imo to debate whether SSRIs will work for an average psychiatric patient.
I’m much more interested in how we can further classify the etiology and physiology of various depressed individuals. To debate the effectiveness of a class of drugs for a condition that presents itself in such an incredibly diverse way among individuals is just not a particularly interesting debate imo.
We could treat patients much better if we were able to prescribe anti depressants based on various presentations of the pathology.
These silly neurotransmitter imbalance debates simply set back the progression of the field imo. I think most neuroscientists and clinicians agree by now that depression is not simply a matter of low serotonin. I guess this paper just kinda feels like a straw man. But perhaps it will help refine the public opinion that is so common these days. That is, the opinion that depression is the result of a chemical imbalance of serotonin.
I understand why people claim that they are ’no better than placebo’… on a population wide level this is likely true. But that completely ignores the fact that certain people see tremendous benefits from them. What makes them unique ?
The same question should be asked for any class of antidepressants (or any class of psychiatric drug for that matter). Its frivolous imo to debate whether SSRIs will work for an average psychiatric patient.
I’m much more interested in how we can further classify the etiology and physiology of various depressed individuals. To debate the effectiveness of a class of drugs for a condition that presents itself in such an incredibly diverse way among individuals is just not a particularly interesting debate imo.
We could treat patients much better if we were able to prescribe anti depressants based on various presentations of the pathology.
These silly neurotransmitter imbalance debates simply set back the progression of the field imo. I think most neuroscientists and clinicians agree by now that depression is not simply a matter of low serotonin. I guess this paper just kinda feels like a straw man. But perhaps it will help refine the public opinion that is so common these days. That is, the opinion that depression is the result of a chemical imbalance of serotonin.
Whether or not they work for depression (and lets just assume they don't now) they ABSOLUTELY work for OCD.
I had/have a very bad kind of eye contact social phobia where I'm uncomfortable making either too little or too much eye contact with anyone and it first struck at age 14 and didn't go away till I got on prozac.
It came back at age 23 when I started drinking massive amounts of caffeine which led to my also needing Klonopin, and unfortunately I've been stuck in a caffeine/Klonopin loop ever since, but had I never started drinking coffee the prozac would have been enough for me.
So to anyone who thinks all SSRIs are completely worthless for any and all people and any and all purposes including OCD, YOU'RE WRONG.
I had/have a very bad kind of eye contact social phobia where I'm uncomfortable making either too little or too much eye contact with anyone and it first struck at age 14 and didn't go away till I got on prozac.
It came back at age 23 when I started drinking massive amounts of caffeine which led to my also needing Klonopin, and unfortunately I've been stuck in a caffeine/Klonopin loop ever since, but had I never started drinking coffee the prozac would have been enough for me.
So to anyone who thinks all SSRIs are completely worthless for any and all people and any and all purposes including OCD, YOU'RE WRONG.
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And the bolded is 110% true as I attested to in my last post.
I wish I didn't need prozac or Klonopin. Klonopin I might be able to get off if I could quit caffeine but I doubt I could quit prozac since even before I drank coffee I needed it for my OCD and social anxiety.
If I could get off prozac I could try the DOZENS of psychedelics and drugs that very well might just work as well for my issues as prozac at the best, or at least be fun at the worst, but I can't.
I understand people mistrusting psychiatry, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
SSRIs DO have their uses for certain purposes and certain people, and I'm unfortunately one of them.
As far as it "being so stupid it borders on retardation", get back to me when you have the exact same problem I do which only went away when I took Prozac.
It saved my life. I felt like i was going crazy and would have to leave school. For some people and some purposes, they are immensely helpful, and to try to claim that there's literally NO ONE who benefits for any reason is what is retarded.
December Flower
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Oh i'm not saying you're stupid, it's the whole of psychiatry. You said yourself you could never quit prozac, that's kind of what i mean. They create an often lifelong dependency, often even before trying to do it in a natural fashion. While i know sports and healthy diet can help a shitload to get your system back up to speed, they dont want to try it because it doesn't make them any money. I work with psychiatrists every day and you're seldom going to find one who isn't a glorified drug dealer.
Yes im biased because i work in medication-free therapy, i got quite the hatred for these people. Some almost seem like they're actively trying to counter what i do. Patient of mine was crying all the time, and we were working through some stuff, it would have just helped to work through it, now she's pumped full of drugs and utterly without emotion of any kind. Just to name the most recent example that comes to mind.
I hope you can one day feel better even or especially without the drugs
Well, I'm sorry but I DON'T agree with you that the entire field of psychiatry is stupid.
I think it's imperfect, as are pretty much all sciences, but psychiatry has effectively treated MANY patients, and the reason I can't quit prozac is NOT as much because of the dependency it caused, but because the underlying problems it treats will almost certainly be there if I stop taking it, because it's helping whatever part of my brain has these issues I'm talking about.
I mean, are you telling me that when I had SEVERE eye contact anxiety at age 14 and it suddenly went away for NINE years after I got on prozac that that was all placebo?
It's not.
What kind of therapy do you work in?
Members of my family are Jungian psychoanalysts so I am BIG believer in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, though that doesn't involve medication.
Listen: most sciences and fields aren't 100% bullshit or 100% legit, they all have weaknesses and strengths and are all a work in progress, as is psychiatry.
What about all the people with bipolar who have been effectively treated by psychiatrists?
There is literally no question whatsoever that certain medications certain psychiatrists prescribe work for certain people and that there are certain good psychiatrists. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't up for debate.
The problem however is that I personally feel that probably many of the most effective drugs for mental illness are illegal, like psychedelics. I haven't yet gotten a chance to grow my own shrooms but I plan on it soon, but every time I have taken them I'm at peace, and I think it's quite possible that if at age 14 when these problems first struck I'd started microdosing shrooms or had some Ayahuasca or Ibogaine or DMT trips that they may have solved my problems in a much better way...or maybe not. I will probably never know.
But sorry, I am not one of these people who believes that psychiatry is bullshit, and if it weren't for the psychiatrists who prescribe me prozac and klonopin I'd probably be incapable of living my life at all.
December Flower
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I should really take the advice to heart that one has to spell everything out in this world.
The fields you are describing are psychology and psychotherapy. What i was talking about was how psychiatry is applied today.
For every person they help with meds, there are 20000 who didnt have a severe issue, but will have one along the road, thanks to the deus ex machina: medication.
You don't even have a reference point how it could have gone with medication free therapy, i have thousands of reference points through my work. My issue is not that medication is used, and no i did not in any way imply they were placebos, please read more carefully, my issue is that medication is used before medication-free treatment as a norm.