Getting off opiates

Tattooed Nerd

Greenlighter
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Dec 4, 2017
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Ok so I started trying like a year ago to get off opiates. The longest I ever made it was like a week maybe and that was like a year ago. I'm tired of failing at this. I. Tired of getting sick when I don't have what I need. I'm tired of trying to be honest. I am just emotionally and physically and mentally fucking done. I need help though from people that actually understand and can guide me and that have made it further than me... This time last year I was taking around 100-150 mgs of ocy a day and around 60-90 mgs of morphine a day and a bunch of hydros a day. Now I am currently only taking 90 mgs of morphine 1 or 2 times a day (usually 1 ) and hydros but those are hit and miss when I have them... Today is the first day with taking nothing except coke... I have probably a gram left of that, gabapentin's (idk how many but a lot of them) and I was thinking about getting immodium because by day 2 I get the shits horribly... What all can I do so that I don't give up this time? How should I spread out the meds? Should I get anything else to help? Please I need all of your advice. This shit is going to kill me one day
 
Red Bali kratom.

I used it to get off oxys and had nearly ZERO withdrawal symptoms.
Worked great for me for two and a half years. Kept me straight sober, except then I realized I was actually just chasing a little wee tiny dragon for those two and a half years and eventually it wasn't doing the trick and suddenly I was going on 2 hour bus-rides to isolated mountains to go on long hikes to distract myself and then one day I got on the bus to Buttfuck Asstown and the two people who sat down in front of me were fentanyl dealers and when I got off the bus there was a bum doing dragons right in front of me and then my girlfriend showed up and starts digging around in her purse for change to give the guy while I'm just standing there watching him roast hoots off the tinfoil listening to the clinking of change while she spends a good 2 minutes scrounging up dimes and nickels...

Yeah, that was like a year and a half ago I think? Now I'm in the same boat as you. Advice is tricky. You're like me - you never let your addiction spiral entirely out of control so it's hard to justify quitting. Sure it's annoying being sick and tired all the time but the rationale when you are sick and tired often overpowers the desire to quit when there isn't some massively traumatic experience associated with it. I.e. when I made it that two and a half years I was simultaneously escaping to a small island to hide from a physically abusive girlfriend who would kick my door down and punch me in the face while I was in bed whilst screaming "Stop hitting me!" until my entire friend group assumed I was a violent misogynist (I'm a soft spoken hippie) and I was getting threats and all of that linked together with the heroin.

That made it relatively easy to quit. Plus the heroin was actually heroin then.

FInd somethng that you love more than drugs. But also something that you can't do on drugs. My thing's music. Except I can play more music, and for longer, on drugs. So that hasn't gotten me far.

The other option is to have a profound spiritual experience. I'm being called to one. The voice is heavily muffled by the thick opioid blanket but it's becoming quite clear and I know the consequences are going to become more serious if I don't heed the call soon.

Interesting point to note: even though most modern-day logicians hate the 12-step program due to its spiritual/christian overtones, it was actually the father of analytical psychology C.J. Jung who unwittingly created the first step and thus essentially laid the framework for the program. In the 30s he and the rest of the psychological associations worldwide agreed that addiction was scientifically and psychologically untreatable. One of Jung's patients returned after a two-year stint of sobriety, having both thought him to be cured. But again he was uncontrollably drinking and sought help from Jung.

Having tried everything he could, Jung bluntly told the guy it was hopeless. He was shattered and said that couldn't be the case, there must be something else. Recalling a much earlier case of an alcoholic who had evaporated a lifelong drinking habit following a spiritual transformation, Jung basically suggested that the only hope the man might have was to go on a pilgrimage and hope to find something that invoked and inspired feelings in him stronger than those of the addiction.

Bill W. shortened that to "Acknowledge your powerlessness over your addiction and seek help from a higher power."

Interesting how much the context of the first step changes with a reference point shift like that. I'm actually interested in attending 12 step programs now.
 
Ok so I started trying like a year ago to get off opiates. The longest I ever made it was like a week maybe and that was like a year ago. I'm tired of failing at this. I. Tired of getting sick when I don't have what I need. I'm tired of trying to be honest. I am just emotionally and physically and mentally fucking done. I need help though from people that actually understand and can guide me and that have made it further than me... This time last year I was taking around 100-150 mgs of ocy a day and around 60-90 mgs of morphine a day and a bunch of hydros a day. Now I am currently only taking 90 mgs of morphine 1 or 2 times a day (usually 1 ) and hydros but those are hit and miss when I have them... Today is the first day with taking nothing except coke... I have probably a gram left of that, gabapentin's (idk how many but a lot of them) and I was thinking about getting immodium because by day 2 I get the shits horribly... What all can I do so that I don't give up this time? How should I spread out the meds? Should I get anything else to help? Please I need all of your advice. This shit is going to kill me one day.
I've only ever made it a week after the initial withdrawals, and that was only because I couldn't get any.
 
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This "provider" is pretty shady looking to me. And that method is known to not stick and can be really dangerous. But I guess it also works for some.

I would advise that you look into memantine for the withdrawals. Along with gabapentin/pregabalin, loperamide, some benzos for furst few days. If you can couple it with a nurse/doctor taking care for you and then therapy plus life changes (excercise, diet, joining some club that is centered around what you truly love to do...) I think you could get better results and save money.

If you want to try unorthodox methods (at this point) than psychedelic therapy via ibogaine/psilocybin and later possibly mdma/ketamine -> ALL UNDER MEDICAL SUPERVISION and with already mentioned therapy plus life changes there is that route.

To abstain for a week or even a year is painful but it is only the start of the long life journey. You will have to resolve what are you self medicating and that is a life long process. Even for people with societaly acceptable addictions like workoholism.

There are no quick fixes for a process that begun even before you were born. I truly hope that you find your way to the way. I am on the similar journey.
 
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This "provider" is pretty shady looking to me. And that method is known to not stick and can be really dangerous. But I guess it also works for some.

I would advise that you look into memantine for the withdrawals. Along with gabapentin/pregabalin, loperamide, some benzos for furst few days. If you can couple it with a nurse/doctor taking care for you and then therapy plus life changes (excercise, diet, joining some club that is centered around what you truly love to do...) I think you could get better results and save money.

If you want to try unorthodox methods (at this point) than psychedelic therapy via ibogaine/psilocybin and later possibly mdma/ketamine -> ALL UNDER MEDICAL SUPERVISION and with already mentioned therapy plus life changes there is that route.

To abstain for a week or even a year is painful but it is only the start of the long life journey. You will have to resolve what are you self medicating and that is a life long process. Even for people with societaly acceptable addictions like workoholism.

There are no quick fixes for a process that begun even before you were born. I truly hope that you find your way to the way. I am on the similar journey.
Yeah, your right. And that's the hard part. I was fine and happy before I started taking them.
 
I used maintenance therapy to come off opiates several times and I'm on the injection. But you want to make an informed choice with that one and figure out if it's the right thing for you. For me, maintenance therapy allowed me to complete my law degree. Others view it as chemical handcuffs. Methadone is seen as harder to quit than suboxone and in some ways worse than heroin. Others prefer it and say it saved their lives.

It's an option, but it's one you don't want to rush into if you're not at the 'spiralling out of control' stage. I was on 1200mg of codeine/a decent amount of heroin or PST when I used stage when I made the choice. And I swear by it. It's not for everyone.
 
Interesting point to note: even though most modern-day logicians hate the 12-step program due to its spiritual/christian overtones, it was actually the father of analytical psychology C.J. Jung who unwittingly created the first step and thus essentially laid the framework for the program.....Interesting how much the context of the first step changes with a reference point shift like that. I'm actually interested in attending 12 step programs now.
I'm not currently active in any 12-Step programs but for many years I was (on&off) very involved in AA and to a lesser extent NA.

I have issues with some aspects of the program but I got A LOT out of those meetings during times when I was otherwise hopeless and helpless. Also met some wonderful people. I had some periods of sobriety that I never would have achieved alone.

I encourage anyone to at least give it a try. After all, it's free and requires no commitment of any kind. What have you got to lose? (As they say in those rooms: If you are not completely satisfied, we will happily refund your misery)

 
I used maintenance therapy to come off opiates several times and I'm on the injection. But you want to make an informed choice with that one and figure out if it's the right thing for you. For me, maintenance therapy allowed me to complete my law degree. Others view it as chemical handcuffs. Methadone is seen as harder to quit than suboxone and in some ways worse than heroin. Others prefer it and say it saved their lives.

It's an option, but it's one you don't want to rush into if you're not at the 'spiralling out of control' stage. I was on 1200mg of codeine/a decent amount of heroin or PST when I used stage when I made the choice. And I swear by it. It's not for everyone.
Yeah, I don't know what any of those meds are. Never heard of them. I've never done heroin, or anything. Just hydrocodone, and on very rare occasions, oxycodone, and I've only been taking them for a couple years. Most people here seem to have been addicted to much worse for much longer, so I don't know how stupid I sound with any of this.
 
I'm not currently active in any 12-Step programs but for many years I was (on&off) very involved in AA and to a lesser extent NA.

I have issues with some aspects of the program but I got A LOT out of those meetings during times when I was otherwise hopeless and helpless. Also met some wonderful people. I had some periods of sobriety that I never would have achieved alone.

I encourage anyone to at least give it a try. After all, it's free and requires no commitment of any kind. What have you got to lose? (As they say in those rooms: If you are not completely satisfied, we will happily refund your misery)


I personally prefer SMART Recovery, and would always add the caveat that 12 step programs (or at least when I experienced where I live, and what many others I know agree with) is the shame based culture tends to be more detrimental rather than helpful, as well as not telling people about alternative support groups. SMART facilitators actually suggest 12 step programs if someone doesn't find SMART a good fit. And also, there is such an epidemic of sexual assault and predation that '13th stepping' is a colloquial term used to describe those behaviours.

I'd happily accept a refund of the misery of multiple sexual assaults I experienced from 'older cleaner members' during my 1.5 years at NA as a 17-18 year old for not having ever gone there, as well as the people who talked up IV drug use to the point it sounded amazing. I don't like the glorification aspects of it at all.

I'll always suggest someone goes, but I always tell them what the meetings are like in my area, and what they should expect.

 
I personally prefer SMART Recovery, and would always add the caveat that 12 step programs (or at least when I experienced where I live, and what many others I know agree with) is the shame based culture tends to be more detrimental rather than helpful, as well as not telling people about alternative support groups. SMART facilitators actually suggest 12 step programs if someone doesn't find SMART a good fit. And also, there is such an epidemic of sexual assault and predation that '13th stepping' is a colloquial term used to describe those behaviours.

I'd happily accept a refund of the misery of multiple sexual assaults I experienced from 'older cleaner members' during my 1.5 years at NA as a 17-18 year old for not having ever gone there, as well as the people who talked up IV drug use to the point it sounded amazing. I don't like the glorification aspects of it at all.

I'll always suggest someone goes, but I always tell them what the meetings are like in my area, and what they should expect.

What happened to you is horrible. I find it particularly deplorable that sexual predators abuse the trust of victims who are in especially vulnerable circumstances.

In my 30+ years (off&on) of participation in (mostly AA) 12-Step groups, I've seen a few instances of questionable behavior-- but I never even heard of any actual assaults. No doubt such things occurred; I just wasn't aware of them.

I only heard of SMART Recovery a few years ago. By that time my substance abuse issues were no longer serious problems. Sounds like a good program. I've always believed that each individual should use whatever works for them personally.
 
What happened to you is horrible. I find it particularly deplorable that sexual predators abuse the trust of victims who are in especially vulnerable circumstances.

In my 30+ years (off&on) of participation in (mostly AA) 12-Step groups, I've seen a few instances of questionable behavior-- but I never even heard of any actual assaults. No doubt such things occurred; I just wasn't aware of them.

I only heard of SMART Recovery a few years ago. By that time my substance abuse issues were no longer serious problems. Sounds like a good program. I've always believed that each individual should use whatever works for them personally.

The issue is you don't hear of them, because victims don't report them. I never did. What was I going to do? I was 17-18, only a couple months clean, and not likely to accuse a 40 year old man with 8 years of clean time of doing something like that.

My few friends I retained from the rooms have zero doubt what I am telling them happened, and the one who still attends never suggests NA when I'm struggling, he tells me to go to SMART instead.

My sponsee was raped by another member (not an older cleaner one) and she was basically ostracised from meetings, while he was sponsored while in jail (for rape) and welcomed back to the group after he was released.

She overdosed on heroin after a year leaving meetings, becoming homeless, and turning to sex work. I was the only member who went to her funeral (I was no longer regularly attending then) from her old home group.

I don't dispute it works for some, my friends are an example of that being more than a decade clean since it's been that long since I went. But it doesn't work for a lot more, I've found. So I never withhold it as an option as I don't know what will work for someone, I list all the options I know about. But I will add what I experienced, especially if (like me) they have a childhood CSA history, making them an especially vulnerable target, they're assigned female, or they are otherwise vulnerable (leaving DV etc).
 
Statistically, 12-Step programs have a very low success rate. Depending on how one measures "successful recovery" it can range from 3% to 20%, from what I've read.
 
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