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⫸Trans and LGBTQIA+ Discussion⫷

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Lovecraft said:
I mean, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone has a problem with the fact that there are people who don't feel aligned with the gender that is associated with their biological sex and happens to feel better about being alive if they live as another gender. Even if they feel the need to go all the way with it surgically. Why does it matter to anyone?

People come up with all sorts of nonsense arguments to justify their opposition, such as that if we allow people to express whatever gender of their choosing, the next thing that will happen is that people will decide they're not human and are some sort of animal. Setting aside that this is also someone's personal choice and if they have the means and resources to do that than by all means they should, a biological male that decides to live as a female can just as well take part in society and function as normally as anyone else in their careers etc.

The other thing I hear is that kids are somehow being indoctrinated to become trans by the media and teachers, which I think is absolute nonsense and can't happen; people, even young people, that don't feel aligned with their biological sex are no more confused or misguided as people who are perfectly happy living out their lives in accordance with their biological sex. They know and understand themselves and nobody's being influenced by anyone. I can't imagine ever being convinced by anyone growing up that I should perhaps identify as female, even if I was surrounded by trans people. I also have a young son and I don't worry about this in the slightest, nor see any signs of even discussing the matter in his schooling.

And the religious arguments by Christian conservatives and evangelicals is even more preposterous because the bible says all kinds of crazy shit that none of them pay attention to, like condoning slavery (the southern slaveholders actually used the bible to justify the African slave trade in US during the American Civil War), wife beating.

I mean, when I see people, intelligent people like Jordan Peterson that are disturbed by this movement, I just don't get it. People are complex and varied and we don't need to insist that everyone fit into perfect little boxes, do we?. That's obviously not the reality.
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Yeah i think i get your drift.

I want to talk about a thing that has been bothering me for a week and i can't shake it off.

I am involved with conspiracy theory forums. There was this Christian conservative (you mentioned them, so i think this is not too far off-topic)

It was not outright gay bashing or hate speech but something along the lines of "Gays should be punished, by God, due to their life choice" And i can't get over it. I can't. How it is a choice? How? I assume the thread author there was a straight person. So what happened with him, her? At some point, most likely during early teenage, the person A) Found out, that he/she, likes the opposite sex, wants to kiss them and hold them close and maybe more? B) He/She was like "Okay... i have began to have sexual needs... now i have to choose... same gender.... or different gender?" I wanted to smash the little fucker but i would just get banned, and most likely i will get banned from this forum (again) after you read my post to the end.

Sexual orientation is not a choice. That is my argument.

I try really hard to not offend anyone. I respect EVERY SINGLE person by default, it is a given. That respect does not have to be earned, at all. But it can be lost. That is ultra rare. One hand fingers is enough to count it, and i am already 40 years old fart.

Look here, i think this is really bad these days, but this is how i feel. I apologize and i SWEAR my intention is to not offend, but to respect. If a baby is born with a penis, then he is a male. If a baby is born with a vagina, then she is a female. I am sorry i am sorry, ban me if that was hate speech but that is how i feel.

I understand that there are people who feel like they were born in the wrong gender body. That must be awful, they have my empathy, and i support it if they want to go through gender changing procedures. That is alright. I just want everyone to be what they are, sincerely, and live their lives without fear of prejudice or violence.

I am honestly sorry if i offended someone here with my ideas of a male and a female. If it is a ban (again) I accept it.

Much love to everyone, EVERYONE! from Finland.
 
Dropperneck said:
I like to keep things short and sweet. Most people aren’t against lgbt, even among conservatives. Lgbt issues and race being used as an ideology and a way to divide is what annoys us. If you don’t bow down to it’s every tenant and swear your allegiance to the establishment then you are branded anti lgbt. Sort goes with the logic of this classic smuggy.
1591769969284-png.1364847
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I don't see them pushing any ideology. They're just standing against all of the bullying and harassment and denial of rights. The Trans and LGBTQ community happen to be one of the most harassed and discriminated populations in the US. When states pass laws against gay marriage or laws prohibiting doctors from performing gender reassignment surgery and the plethora of other laws that are enacted to basically get in the way of these people living out their lives in the way they see fit, then they protest and resist. And these policies are created by conservatives and the religious right, so don't tell me that most aren't against the trans and LGBTQ community. If we just left people alone to live their lives the way they want to, then they'd leave everyone else alone to do the same. It's really that simple.

It's like saying the civil rights movement was trying to push an ideology. Well yeah, it's the ideology of equality and freedom for all, which the US professes to be its core ideology.
 
jane douloureux said:
homophobia is tied to same sex arousal as well

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? - PubMed

The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Out of I'd say 6 really homophobic guys I've known, two later came out as gay and one tried to kiss me in the school bathroom once.
 
Did someone fart? said:
Look here, i think this is really bad these days, but this is how i feel. I apologize and i SWEAR my intention is to not offend, but to respect. If a baby is born with a penis, then he is a male. If a baby is born with a vagina, then she is a female. I am sorry i am sorry, ban me if that was hate speech but that is how i feel.

I understand that there are people who feel like they were born in the wrong gender body. That must be awful, they have my empathy, and i support it if they want to go through gender changing procedures. That is alright. I just want everyone to be what they are, sincerely, and live their lives without fear of prejudice or violence.

I am honestly sorry if i offended someone here with my ideas of a male and a female. If it is a ban (again) I accept it.

Much love to everyone, EVERYONE! from Finland.
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You're not being offensive. Nobody's denying that people are born biologically male and female, even though their are cases where someone is born with both male and female genitals. But this isn't the issue. Trans people are saying that they don't feel aligned with the gender assigned to their biological sex and want to express their gender differently. The people against them doing this keep bringing up the fact of biology but it's really just a red herring argument because the trans community isn't arguing that they are not biologically male or female but that they want to transition to a different gender.
 
Lovecraft said:
I don't see them pushing any ideology. They're just standing against all of the bullying and harassment and denial of rights. The Trans and LGBTQ community happen to be one of the most harassed and discriminated populations in the US. When states pass laws against gay marriage or laws prohibiting doctors from performing gender reassignment surgery and the plethora of other laws that are enacted to basically get in the way of these people living out their lives in the way they see fit, then they protest and resist. And these policies are created by conservatives and the religious right, so don't tell me that most aren't against the trans and LGBTQ community. If we just left people alone to live their lives the way they want to, then they'd leave everyone else alone to do the same. It's really that simple.

It's like saying the civil rights movement was trying to push an ideology. Well yeah, it's the ideology of equality and freedom for all, which the US professes to be its core ideology.
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interesting take. They get a month and a flag, and disproportionate attention in the media and from governments for a small minority population, and they get shit loads of money for their cause.

Very discriminated. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...l-transgender-queer-and-intersex-individuals/

even in jail the government discriminates... https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-inmate-transgender-20150810-story.html ... oh wait no the government pays for criminals in jail to get gender surgery.

And what do they want know? To infect youth with their ideology by having drag queens read to kids. AND THEY WANT YOU TO PAY FOR IT(and the life long treatment)!

what is an ideology?
 
Lovecraft said:
You're not being offensive. Nobody's denying that people are born biologically male and female, even though their are cases where someone is born with both male and female genitals. But this isn't the issue. Trans people are saying that they don't feel aligned with the gender assigned to their biological sex and want to express their gender differently. The people against them doing this keep bringing up the fact of biology but it's really just a red herring argument because the trans community isn't arguing that they are not biologically male or female but that they want to transition to a different gender.
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Okay cool. I did not want to be viewed as offensive, and if my point of view was viewed as non offensive well, i feel kinda good :)

Trans people... it is a human thing. What the fuck does it mean to me if someone is trans? Pretty much the same thing if someone likes blue T-shirts. Or double cheese burgers. That tells me nothing profound about the person. I want to spend time with the person, get to know him / her / other. And draw my conclusions from there.
 
Did someone fart? said:
Okay cool. I did not want to be viewed as offensive, and if my point of view was viewed as non offensive well, i feel kinda good :)

Trans people... it is a human thing. What the fuck does it mean to me if someone is trans? Pretty much the same thing if someone likes blue T-shirts. Or double cheese burgers. That tells me nothing profound about the person. I want to spend time with the person, get to know him / her / other. And draw my conclusions from there.
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i dont care if people are trans

I care when they become activists

I don't care if people are gay, I have lived with homosexuals who had homosexual sex in their own room.

I only care if they try to fuck me (or fuck a child I am responsible for).

Fuck asses, and cut off your cocks, I don't care. Just do it as an adult and don't become an activist pushing your viewpoint and way of life on people especially children.
 
I’m more on the right, have no problem with any lgbt have a brother that is gay and multiple friends, once again I say it’s the extremist that are “anti gay” since I know many people that are right wingnuts and have no problems with it, leave the kids out of it and I have no problem with how anybody lives their life
 
I just see the lgbt cause as being used by the establishmen/banks as a way to distract/divide/etc. Same with the race issue, and the little color revolution they threw back in 2020. It’s happened so often through out history it’s pretty difficult for a noticer like myself not to see. I think it’s unfortunate bc the same people they are ‘promoting‘ are ultimately just victims. Most people truly don’t care what others‘ do, but when you tell them their tax dollars have to fund drag show story hour for their kids, that’s when those that haven’t been subverted by these people finally put their foot down.
 
assclass said:
i dont care if people are trans

I care when they become activists

I don't care if people are gay, I have lived with homosexuals who had homosexual sex in their own room.

I only care if they try to fuck me (or fuck a child I am responsible for).

Fuck asses, and cut off your cocks, I don't care. Just do it as an adult and don't become an activist pushing your viewpoint and way of life on people especially children.
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assclass said:
interesting take. They get a month and a flag, and disproportionate attention in the media and from governments for a small minority population, and they get shit loads of money for their cause.

Very discriminated. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...l-transgender-queer-and-intersex-individuals/

even in jail the government discriminates... https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-inmate-transgender-20150810-story.html ... oh wait no the government pays for criminals in jail to get gender surgery.

And what do they want know? To infect youth with their ideology by having drag queens read to kids. AND THEY WANT YOU TO PAY FOR IT(and the life long treatment)!

what is an ideology?
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The way you talk you don't sound very accepting of them. You sound like those racists that claim they aren't racist because, hey, they have many black friends.

You're basically calling a person's deep-seated understanding of their identity and way of life an "ideology" that they're pushing on people. Nobody's pushing anything. Is anyone telling people they SHOULD be gay or trans?

It's not an ideology and it's an insult to call it that. I'm not sure what you're referencing with the thing about the drag queens reading to kids which we will pay for but again, that's a hostile and derogatory way of describing trans people. I have no issue with children being exposed to "drag queens" or rather, people that feel happier living in a gender role that's different than their biology. It's a reality of life for some people and it's harmless and won't influence anyone that isn't already trans, and gender dysphoric to begin with, which some children actually are. I actually wish my 8 year old son got to have a transgender person read to his class. It would show him that our society is accepting of trans people. Then, should he realize that he was part of that community, he wouldn't have to be ashamed of it or worry about being harassed and bullied as so many trans and LGBTQ youth are.
 
Lovecraft said:
The way you talk you don't sound very accepting of them. You sound like those racists that claim they aren't racist because, hey, they have many black friends.

You're basically calling a person's deep-seated understanding of their identity and way of life an "ideology" that they're pushing on people. Nobody's pushing anything. Is anyone telling people they SHOULD be gay or trans?

It's not an ideology and it's an insult to call it that. I'm not sure what you're referencing with the thing about the drag queens reading to kids which we will pay for but again, that's a hostile and derogatory way of describing trans people. I have no issue with children being exposed to "drag queens" or rather, people that feel happier living in a gender role that's different than their biology. It's a reality of life for some people and it's harmless and won't influence anyone that isn't already trans, and gender dysphoric to begin with, which some children actually are. I actually wish my 8 year old son got to have a transgender person read to his class. It would show him that our society is accepting of trans people. Then, should he realize that he was part of that community, he wouldn't have to be ashamed of it or worry about being harassed and bullied as so many trans and LGBTQ youth are.
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How can I sound more accepting without becoming a cheerleader for them? They are people, just like everyone else. Sounds pretty accepting to me. Universal human rights.

Do racist white people live with black families, and consider them to be family?

"Is anyone telling people they SHOULD be gay or trans?" Yes, the activists do. These are the people I disagree with.

"It's not an ideology and it's an insult to call it that"

define ideology "a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy."
 
assclass said:
How can I sound more accepting without becoming a cheerleader for them? They are people, just like everyone else. Sounds pretty accepting to me. Universal human rights.
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i definitely don't want any cheerleading, never did. It's just when people make the "I only care if they try to fuck me (or fuck a child I am responsible for)" type comments it sounds like you think we're disgusting and predatory. You're entitled to your opinion but I'd rather you be blunt.

I mean , you don't worry about heterosexuals trying to fuck you or the children you are responsible for, do you?

this is why I hate pride and the way some gays sexualize literally everything. We spent forever trying to convince everyone that was a stereotype now some are like nah, that's actually true.
 
mal3volent said:
you don't think 6th graders need sex ed or just the gay ones?

just asking
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sex ed should be age progressive.

little kids can learn about parts and keeping them clean.

then you can learn that sex is something adults do.

when they are 25 they are old enough to be taught to ass fuck. that kind of thing.

I don't think gay or straight 6th graders need to learn the mechanics of intercourse, because they should not be fucking. they need to learn that priests might try to fuck them, but thats it.
 
mal3volent said:
i definitely don't want any cheerleading, never did. It's just when people make the "I only care if they try to fuck me (or fuck a child I am responsible for)" type comments it sounds like you think we're disgusting and predatory. You're entitled to your opinion but I'd rather you be blunt.

I mean , you don't worry about heterosexuals trying to fuck you or the children you are responsible for, do you?

this is why I hate pride and the way some gays sexualize literally everything. We spent forever trying to convince everyone that was a stereotype now some are like nah, that's actually true.
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its not a predatory or disgust feeling, it's my boundary.

I get to have feelings and determine what I think is comfortable for me. And I don't want people that are or were trying to have sex with me.

im not worried that straight men try to fuck me, because im a man and if they are straight by definition they aren't into fucking me.

i didn't mention im worried about drunk drivers killing kids, but im worried about that and pedophiles too.

I'm concerned about the roots of Queer Theory (Gayle Rubin Thinking Sex... etc) that use queer and trans movements to slip in a bit of pedophilia though. like the code word of "cross generational sex".... fucking kids
 
assclass said:
interesting take. They get a month and a flag, and disproportionate attention in the media and from governments for a small minority population, and they get shit loads of money for their cause.

Very discriminated. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...l-transgender-queer-and-intersex-individuals/

even in jail the government discriminates... https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-inmate-transgender-20150810-story.html ... oh wait no the government pays for criminals in jail to get gender surgery.

And what do they want know? To infect youth with their ideology by having drag queens read to kids. AND THEY WANT YOU TO PAY FOR IT(and the life long treatment)!

what is an ideology?
Click to expand...
lgbtq people getting "a month and a flag" doesn't mean people respect us, iirc someone was arrested last month for planning to shoot up a pride parade. laws against trans people are being passed (or could be passed) in lots of states recently. plus nobody is trying to force children to be gay or trans, or teaching young children about gay people in schools. alot of us just want being lgbtq to be treated as something normal so people don't grow up to hate us or see us as something abnormal. half the time I can't just walk in my neighborhood with my friends without people shouting slurs at us because so many people weren't raised to treat lgbtq people as people.
 
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