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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

Russo-Ukrainian War v. World War 3?

Nas47 said:
U.S and otherveuro puppets enough.whatvu flaggin' me this shit.
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You casually throw-out that the US overthrew the pro-Russian Ukrainian goverment in 2014. This would be a justification for Russia to invade the eastern Ukraine right?

This 'US orchestrated Coup' narrative, which, surprise surprise is the Kremlin approved version of events that you're parroting again, is based almost exclusively around a leaked phone call from the Assistant US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, where she expouses her views on who she wanted to win the upcoming election. If you believe this was the reason the goverment was overthrown, rather than the months long protest by thousands of protestors at Maidan square , then I suggest you're the one who's been successfully brainwashed by whatever media your bitching about.


bp17.jpg
 
maassive said:
You casually throw-out that the US overthrew the pro-Russian Ukrainian goverment in 2014. This would be a justification for Russia to invade the eastern Ukraine right?

This 'US orchestrated Coup' narrative, which, surprise surprise is the Kremlin approved version of events that you're parroting again, is based almost exclusively around a leaked phone call from the Assistant US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, where she expouses her views on who she wanted to win the upcoming election. If you believe this was the reason the goverment was overthrown, rather than the months long protest by thousands of protestors at Maidan square , then I suggest you're the one who's been successfully brainwashed by whatever media your bitching about.


bp17.jpg
Click to expand...

maassive said:
You casually throw-out that the US overthrew the pro-Russian Ukrainian goverment in 2014. This would be a justification for Russia to invade the eastern Ukraine right?

This 'US orchestrated Coup' narrative, which, surprise surprise is the Kremlin approved version of events that you're parroting again, is based almost exclusively around a leaked phone call from the Assistant US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, where she expouses her views on who she wanted to win the upcoming election. If you believe this was the reason the goverment was overthrown, rather than the months long protest by thousands of protestors at Maidan square , then I suggest you're the one who's been successfully brainwashed by whatever media your bitching about.


bp17.jpg
Click to expand...
No read what you post...sorry don't care
 
maassive said:
This 'US orchestrated Coup' narrative, which, surprise surprise is the Kremlin approved version of events that you're parroting again, is based almost exclusively around a leaked phone call from the Assistant US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, where she expouses her views on who she wanted to win the upcoming election. If you believe this was the reason the goverment was overthrown, rather than the months long protest by thousands of protestors at Maidan square , then I suggest you're the one who's been successfully brainwashed by whatever media your bitching about.
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Many reputable figues and people with a lot more knowledge than you and me have described it as a coup.
To claim everyone is brainwashed and you are 100% on the right side is kinda bold.

I don't know enough about these things and don't follow it enough, but I can look at results...
And I can tell you that NATO is stronger than ever (countries investing in defense and there is a greater sense of unity, which will be needed for the other cold war that is going on against China), and that 10s of billions of dollars have been going directly to US weapon manufacturers, DoD, whatever... I believe I'm quite right on that.

This is the American machine, it has never stopped and somehow they always manage to keep it going without people batting an eye and even lots of them cheering it on, completely partisan too.

So to me it seems the US has gotten exactly what it wants, so it'd be naive to assume the US has no role in anything that went on in Ukraine in the past decade. Also trying to understand and just talk about the years before the invasion is not whitewashing or excusing it, not at all.
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
Many reputable figues and people with a lot more knowledge than you and me have described it as a coup.
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I would *love* to hear about these reputable figures' you talk of, and what exact evidence they have that the Maidan revolution was a US orchestrated coup.

Buzz Lightbeer said:
To claim everyone is brainwashed and you are 100% on the right side is kinda bold.
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I'm claiming the guy posting semi-coherent brain farts against the "media" while claiming the US 'otherveuro?' the Ukraine government, has been brainwashed - big difference there buzz.

Buzz Lightbeer said:
This is the American machine, it has never stopped and somehow they always manage to keep it going without people batting an eye and even lots of them cheering it on, completely partisan too.
Click to expand...

That's because those people understand how the world could very easily look since WW2 without the US (with all its flaws) to fight for the pricinples that you seem to enjoy and take for granted.
Can you grasp the idea, that if it was left to dictatorial regimes like the CCCP, for example, you wont be able to say the shit you say now??

Buzz Lightbeer said:
Also trying to understand and just talk about the years before the invasion is not whitewashing or excusing it, not at all.
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By all means.
 
I can not wait for ww3 to kick off so i can take out all my hate for humanity on these evil fuckers in the frontlines. Its gonna be a blood bath. GLORY TO the free world
 
But while the gains of the orange-bedecked "chestnut revolution" are Ukraine's, the campaign is an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing that, in four countries in four years, has been used to try to salvage rigged elections and topple unsavoury regimes.
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www.google.com

Ian Traynor: US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev

Analysis: Ukraine, traditionally passive in its politics, has been mobilised by young democracy activists and will never be the same again.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
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maassive said:
I'm claiming the guy posting semi-coherent brain farts against the "media" while claiming the US 'otherveuro?' the Ukraine government, has been brainwashed - big difference there buzz.
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You don't have to be an asshole about it though. Keep the personal attacks out of it. It should be possible to discuss things without name-calling.

The person you're talking about is slowly getting better at English but it's not his first language, so chill.
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
Many reputable figues and people with a lot more knowledge than you and me have described it as a coup.
To claim everyone is brainwashed and you are 100% on the right side is kinda bold.

I don't know enough about these things and don't follow it enough, but I can look at results...
And I can tell you that NATO is stronger than ever (countries investing in defense and there is a greater sense of unity, which will be needed for the other cold war that is going on against China), and that 10s of billions of dollars have been going directly to US weapon manufacturers, DoD, whatever... I believe I'm quite right on that.

This is the American machine, it has never stopped and somehow they always manage to keep it going without people batting an eye and even lots of them cheering it on, completely partisan too.

So to me it seems the US has gotten exactly what it wants, so it'd be naive to assume the US has no role in anything that went on in Ukraine in the past decade. Also trying to understand and just talk about the years before the invasion is not whitewashing or excusing it, not at all.
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Very smart and honest post.

NATO is indeed stronger than before all this shit started.
I will tell you without a doubt that I want to live in a western nation rather than in the russian system, where I would be in prison for my pharma hobbies, or facing fascist measures against me, or have to use fucking kokodril. Or, most likely, be dead.

I think being a russian citizen has been a tragedy ( for people like me and for so many others),for the best part of the last century and for the current one.( don't know if these words make sense in English, sorry).

We westerners have far more personal liberty than them. Or so I think. And that is the most important thing to me.

But pretending to blame russians for every and each evil shit happening in the world is just plain stupid. Or so I think, again...
 
maassive said:
That's because those people understand how the world could very easily look since WW2 without the US (with all its flaws) to fight for the pricinples that you seem to enjoy and take for granted.
Can you grasp the idea, that if it was left to dictatorial regimes like the CCCP, for example, you wont be able to say the shit you say now??
Click to expand...
Which principles does the US fight for? Freedom? I don't think so. Democracy? The extensive history of coups and supporting undemocratic regimes begs to differ.

You're asking if I'm able to grasp the idea that I wouldn't be able to talk shit about the US under CCP rule? ;) I cannot grasp that idea, no. Too hard for me, you'd have to be an American liberal to grasp those kinds of ideas I guess.

I see the US as a superpower, that is trying to do everything to retain that status, like every single superpower has tried to do in history. I don't buy that any of their morals and principles have anything to do with that and that seems easily disproven to me given the past decades. I once had a guy tell me here that the US only had "good countries" as allies, no, it's about power and wealth. Everything else is noise.
It's just a fundamentally different worldview, you want America strong and having that superpower status and challenging others to not let them get there themselves by forcing them into submission. I'd like for them to stop the obscene arms races, provocations and the cold war against China and sit around tables.... Am I a naive lefty? Yes...

I can guarantee however that the CCP won't be at your or my doorstep anytime soon =D
 
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