Will Someone Please Explain this Rampant Hateful Aggressive “Gnostic Christianity” to Me?

[Gnostic Bishop]

I’m confused as to how you can praise the teachings of Jesus yet say that him dying for peoples’ sins is immoral.

There is more than one Jesus in the Bible.

One is the Roman pacifist who kissed Rome's ass, and the other is the esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Jesus, who talks like what follows.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation and “I am”, represents the best rules and laws that we have found to live by.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.



Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.



The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Gnosis enlightens adults.

IOWs, one wants to slave you to religions while the other wants to free you from them.

==========

Specifically, on your last show of what I see as immoral thinking, here is what I give Christians to have them argue your immoral position, and this is when they run away.

Do the same or I will make mince meat of your pathetic immoral thinking.

On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL

 

[Nas47]

So instead of reading the full flowery paragraph about religion while I;m a little tipsy lemmie just state the idea of a christian god either places it as a genocidal maniacal douchebag or other tyrant leader with 0 redeeming qualities...
Judgement placed upon a subject you willingly and intentionally torture marks them as the saint and you as the demon...

Christianity is a religion where the evil judge the good, where lucifer is the the obvious good influence whilst their god is a monster.

Also the quick browse seemed to mention tithes, which as with tax exemptions are the work of the truly evil, hence why the church of satan denies tax exemption status, because it refuses to act in an evil manner...
Being evil and being christian go hand in hand.

God...church of Satan wtf?I like hell hammer&Celtic frost too......but this is hillarious.you got two churches in you,in rveryone,cause non of us is nor good,nor evil....just mixed of the two.but may be exist Evil in it's pure form and it got nothing about with christians.nor with Satan.Its not strange,that our world is component of opposites,of 0 and 1.We have a proverb-"Every evil for good"In my language it's sounds very profound.It's means,that you never know for sure,which good act could lead to negative consequences for you or somebodyelse or vice versa

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

That’s literally the entire reason for his existence according to the bible. Do you not believe this happened? That it’s just a metaphor or something??

The bible also tell us that if we want to grow past Christian moral wisdom, we are to seek the way elsewhere.
Quotes on demand.

Jesus was to rise and rule over the Jews. He failed the test.


The last part of post 99 speaks to how we see Jesus as a myth and do not hold any supernatural beliefs.

We think that they screwed up the initially great Christian ideals.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

So I guess I don’t understand why you think there’s any value in the religion if you agree the entire foundation of it is illogical and morally repugnant.

I do not.

It is a long story and perhaps this old O.P. might help, even if designed for a Christian.

-------

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.

That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.

In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.

Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

The Pope Would Like You to Accept Evolution and the Big Bang

The Roman Catholic Church is pro-evolution and Big Bang, but with a twist

www.smithsonianmag.com

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.



Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL

 

[Jabberwocky]

In the Cathar traditions, I am a Parfait.

'Montaillou, an Occitan Village from 1294 to 1324' by Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie uses the records of Jacques Fournier aka Pope Benedict XII to tell a micro history of a village in Occitan and touches on the Cathar Inquisition. I read it in college, its very well written but from what I remember doesn't discuss Cathar theology in extensive detail. I read a short story set in a Cathar household that was quartered by Catholic soldiers from Ireland during the Cathar Inquisition, I want to say it was written by James Joyce but I can't remember. Again not much on theology there.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

So instead of reading the full flowery paragraph about religion while I;m a little tipsy lemmie just state the idea of a christian god either places it as a genocidal maniacal douchebag or other tyrant leader with 0 redeeming qualities...
Judgement placed upon a subject you willingly and intentionally torture marks them as the saint and you as the demon...

Christianity is a religion where the evil judge the good, where lucifer is the the obvious good influence whilst their god is a monster.

Also the quick browse seemed to mention tithes, which as with tax exemptions are the work of the truly evil, hence why the church of satan denies tax exemption status, because it refuses to act in an evil manner...
Being evil and being christian go hand in hand.

Forgive them, etc. -------

Satan, not that she exists, has Christians deceived into belief in the supernatural, and that ruins their moral sense.

Why do you think a Gnostic hates those evils?

Because it reduces the effects and does harm to all good people.

Regards
DL

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

That is why Gnostic Christians hate supernatural thinking and faith.

We thrive on facts, not faith.

Regards
DL

I don't know much about Gnostic Christians but maybe I am one (or a half a one lol).

I believe in both. Facts that can be proven. But I also believe that there are things man doesn't know, some things man cannot know & things we have yet to unlock. Reality is much bigger than we get through our senses. One would call that supernatural thinking I guess.

I can only consider myself an "individual". My religion has no name. Nor do I know if I truly have a religion either. My conscious is like a soup & I can be many things at different times.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I don't know much about Gnostic Christians but maybe I am one (or a half a one lol).

If I read you right, it sounds like you are saying that you are your own best guide to decent laws and rules to live by.

To post 101, you are of Gnostic Christian material for our positive side.

Our other side is to actively fight evil.

That is why we denounce the evil Christian Yahweh/Jesus satanic twins.

For evil to grow and all that.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

'Montaillou, an Occitan Village from 1294 to 1324' by Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie uses the records of Jacques Fournier aka Pope Benedict XII to tell a micro history of a village in Occitan and touches on the Cathar Inquisition. I read it in college, its very well written but from what I remember doesn't discuss Cathar theology in extensive detail. I read a short story set in a Cathar household that was quartered by Catholic soldiers from Ireland during the Cathar Inquisition, I want to say it was written by James Joyce but I can't remember. Again not much on theology there.

True.

But remember who wrote the history you have learned. The murderers.

Now the Gnostic Gospels shows the beauty of our universalist ideology.

It was and still is the precursor of what I see as Laïcité.

Just the fact that we fight homophobia and misogyny from inside the Christian fold, should have all moral people giving us points for doing more than most other religions.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

It's means,that you never know for sure,which good act could lead to negative consequences for you or somebodyelse or vice versa

True, but perhaps irrelevant.

There is still a most intelligent and moral answer though, --- that is likely the correct answer, --- if the good of the many is always put above the good of the few.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Well, all I can say is that I sincerely hope you find peace some day.

The wise curse peace.

Confrontation and competition is how we find our fittest and improve our species.

Regards
DL

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

The wise curse peace.

Confrontation and competition is how we find our fittest and improve our species.

Regards
DL

I'm surprised that as a "Gnostic" you don't know that there is a time for everything:

A time to be born, a time to die
A time to sow, a time to harvest
A time to work, a time to rest
A time for war, a time for peace

The wise do what is appropriate to do at that time, they don't try to apply one principle to all times or circumstances.

 

[Nas47]

True, but perhaps irrelevant.

There is still a most intelligent and moral answer though, --- that is likely the correct answer, --- if the good of the many is always put above the good of the few.

Regards
DL

That is imminent.To put the good of many over the good of the few.Thst's how is structure society.Imagine the oposite -the good of the few above the good of the many-that is what goin in round now.
There is a few people over the law,in shadow,invisible,mighty,but present.Their rule right now.Other is sand in the eyes of people

 

[Foreigner]

I think religion is a tool used for powers to wage war and massacre, murder, rape, pillage, plunder etc in the name of god.
My opinion from experience and obsevation.
2c

Those are the political consequences, yes. I don't think religion was invented for those things. The sad truth is that there are power hungry humans in every generation, throughout all time. They will twist any ideology to suit their agenda. That's what happened to religion.

Religion at its core is still a genuine attempt to answer the question of creation and existence. Some attempts are better than others. They all get used by psychos and sociopaths to control and dominant others, because... well... that's what psychos and sociopaths do.

 

[Foreigner]

Literacy has nothing to do with the stupidity of supernatural beliefs.

Um... but you're the one who brought up literacy.

To the religiously illiterate, indeed.

That's all I was responding to.

Now you're saying religious literacy has nothing to do with it. So, which is it?

If Christianity had not been worthy before their brain killing supernatural thinking, it would have never taken off.

Regards
DL

What do you mean by worthy?

Also, Christianity is not the only religion or philosophy that thinks in supernatural terms. What evidence do you have that supernatural thinking is a result of mental deficits and not the result of some kind of genuine process of inquiry? Are you suggesting that all supernatural thinking is because of religion exclusively, and can never be a result of personal inductive reasoning?

I'd really appreciate it if you answered these questions, and please do so without being insulting.

 

[Brendan12]

Does anyone here have any quotes from gnostic texts (Nag Hamadi) that can back up their arguments?

 

[Nas47]

What is translated..a fragments of evangelics-from Tomas,Mary Magdalen and Jacob(may be).Nothing compared to official fourth in sence......a different point of view.quitevinteresting.That's what i know of gnostic scripts,butvthere is other plenty too

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Being evil and being christian go hand in hand

good and bad? sure. i can get on board with a one/two-ness but kinda think threes a crowd.

Does anyone here have any quotes from gnostic texts (Nag Hamadi) that can back up their arguments?

Good luck with that. I think we are in the age of "what I say is law" and it has been coming to this for ages and ages.
So much conflicting data that it is just easier to create a new religion, imo.

I don't think religion was invented for those things.

I tend to agree. Like most thing created to be good someone finds a way to turn it bad. Cant have anything nice.
Reminds me of some text read years back where Alexander (edited) Antiochus Epiphanes was putting his image inside the torah or whatever and following generations equated him with god cause its in the book.
"Abomination of desolation"? IDK.... Metaphors and all that jazz

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Good luck with that. I think we are in the age of "what I say is law" and it has been coming to this for ages and ages.
So much conflicting data that it is just easier to create a new religion, imo.

It's interesting to note that the Nag Hamadi was discovered in 1945 and many of translations were done by "researchers" funded and working with UNESCO. What a perfect opportunity for the UN to secularise religions. It a perfect instrument to tear down Judaeo/Christian faiths in one swoop. The translations do not contain all the vitrol and hate that is being posted by Gnostic Bishop, however. That's his own special "spice" he likes to throw in. I truly think that he comes here to just argue with people and attempt to get them upset.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Nag Hamadi

Until this thread I had never heard of it. Guess if I get some time I will check it out... first thoughts: Why the hell did it take so long to produce this writing and is it genuine? Rabbits everywhere but I do like to learn new stuff just tired of the digging down and reading between the lines. Just gets monotonous imo.