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Recovery The 2022 alcohol support thread

hello @OVER_AMPER and welcome to the boozers thread.

i'm afraid i can't give you much of an insightful reply cos i'm actually slightly drunk right now. we are having a 4 day weekend cos of the queen being very old so its justified i think.

i did wanna say that i totally get you about how much pressure 12 step approaches put on people to go for complete abstinence and how that can backfire and make people get extremely stressed about an action that isn't good for them. it really helped me in early recovery cos i was convinced if i had a sip of booze i'd be back selling my body for crack, and before i'd built up the resilience it probably would have been a very bad idea. now i would like to go back to complete abstinence because alcohol has more cons than pros for me, not because of some dogmatic rule.

totally get you re IV as well. i did IV in the end but i avoided it for years cos i was so squeamish and i honestly think that aversion saved my life, given how much i fucked my veins and how bad i got with it very quickly once i did. thankfully after starting down that route it was only about 6 months before i went to rehab, so i didn't fuck myself up too much.
 
we are having a 4 day weekend cos of the queen being very old so its justified i think.
where is my 4 day weekend for my elderly president??? :poop:

I jest...

i did IV in the end but i avoided it for years cos i was so squeamish and i honestly think that aversion saved my life
For me, it was just a bit of laziness and basic reluctance. My friends would be cooking up shots, hand me a spoon and I'd just snort my liquid heroin.

I'm glad I never tried it, and lucky I suppose. Snorting heroin was plenty enough of a high for me. I didn't need more than that.

I'm not adverse to needles or blood or anything, just... lazy... and enjoyed snorting things. It was good enough.



anyways... bit drunk myself tonight on the cheap beer... idle hands...
 
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Alway's wondered about these. Do they do anything, possibly even work. As its hardly prescribed.
 
totally get you re IV as well. i did IV in the end but i avoided it for years cos i was so squeamish and i honestly think that aversion saved my life, given how much i fucked my veins and how bad i got with it very quickly once i did. thankfully after starting down that route it was only about 6 months before i went to rehab, so i didn't fuck myself up too much.
I wouldn't say I'm squeamish about needles or blood, it doesn't really bother me on that level. What it is for me is that just the immediate change in temperature and the feeling that goes from one side of my neck to the other on IV. I seriously don't like that and that's probably why I'm over_amper because temperature changes fuck with me hard especially if it's sudden. I'm so hot natured I could live with the penguins. When meth begins to overheat my body a little too far, my fun is over. Nausea and numb limbs. Seriously full gut feeling like I need to burp really bad. I really think my meth days are pretty much over.

BTW thank you for the warm and honest reply. You sound like an interestingly self aware individual. I'm beginning to think that I'm in far over my head here in relation to addiction. Either I've never went as far into the abyss as many of you have or I'm just the kind of person who walks away on this level. I don't even want to imagine going farther than I have into really dark places. I have been told by several folks that I have an unrealistic level of self discipline in that department. Idk. When I'm done with something I'm simply done. I'm not done with alcohol I guess.
 
You wanna hear something crazy? Anytime I really fuck up, I mean really blatantly cross a boundary that shouldn't be crossed. I hear my dad's voice in my head. Not literally audible, just in my head.

He says "What the fuck are you doing? Who the fuck do you think you are? (A long pause.) You think you're going to be able to finish what needs done later? Can you even fucking drive? Get your goddamn sloppy ass in shape. Get out of my site until you can maintain!"

That has followed me for life and I think it's for the best. It has saved my life.
 
You wanna hear something crazy? Anytime I really fuck up, I mean really blatantly cross a boundary that shouldn't be crossed. I hear my dad's voice in my head. Not literally audible, just in my head.

He says "What the fuck are you doing? Who the fuck do you think you are? (A long pause.) You think you're going to be able to finish what needs done later? Can you even fucking drive? Get your goddamn sloppy ass in shape. Get out of my site until you can maintain!"

That has followed me for life and I think it's for the best. It has saved my life.

I never had a father figure, I always imagined if I did I would have something similar.

Sometimes I will hear Hunter S. Thompson's voice saying "Get a grip man!" when I need to find some resolve. :ROFLMAO:
 
I wouldn't say I'm squeamish about needles or blood, it doesn't really bother me on that level. What it is for me is that just the immediate change in temperature and the feeling that goes from one side of my neck to the other on IV. I seriously don't like that and that's probably why I'm over_amper because temperature changes fuck with me hard especially if it's sudden. I'm so hot natured I could live with the penguins. When meth begins to overheat my body a little too far, my fun is over. Nausea and numb limbs. Seriously full gut feeling like I need to burp really bad. I really think my meth days are pretty much over.
ooohhhhffff yes i can see being sensitive to that making IV offputting. i've only ever IVd stimulants with heroin, which makes you not notice temperature,

BTW thank you for the warm and honest reply. You sound like an interestingly self aware individual.
ha thank you! i'm not sure what that means but i do try to be self aware. it helps with the recovery process to be honest with yourself i guess.
I'm beginning to think that I'm in far over my head here in relation to addiction. Either I've never went as far into the abyss as many of you have or I'm just the kind of person who walks away on this level. I don't even want to imagine going farther than I have into really dark places. I have been told by several folks that I have an unrealistic level of self discipline in that department. Idk. When I'm done with something I'm simply done. I'm not done with alcohol I guess.
that is a very lucky personality trait. to be able to walk away. i do wonder though, if knowing that engenders some complacency which might be making it more difficult to stop drinking?

don't worry about not having plumbed the depths of addiction. if alcohol consumption is affecting you, your place in this thread is earned.
 
ha thank you! i'm not sure what that means but i do try to be self aware. it helps with the recovery process to be honest with yourself i guess.
It was a compliment on you admitting being kind of drunk in an earlier post as well as other remarks. A humorous honesty.

that is a very lucky personality trait. to be able to walk away. i do wonder though, if knowing that engenders some complacency which might be making it more difficult to stop drinking?

I've never looked at it quite that way. I believe you're probably right come to think of it. I consume none for days and sometimes weeks and then when I get my free time it seems to be easy for me to drink well beyond any resemblance to moderation. Hitting it like that after weeks of nothing makes my tolerance low at first as well. I'll go and think about that for a while. We'll see what happens on my next free time and I'll definitely update.
Thanks @chinup
 
My sleep is disrupted, I seem to sleep in 90 minute cycles, wake up and struggle to get back to sleep, in total I only get around 4.5 hours per night, often less, and it's wearing on me. No matter how much I try, prepare, and practice healthy sleep habits, I can't get more than that when sober.

4.5 hours is ok. Seriously.. This 8 hours a night thing is bullshit and just makes you more stressed if you can't. I don't think I've had a regular 8 hrs a night in my life. With all my hormonal problems (thyroid, pancreas, ovaries) I've spent years waking up after 1.5 or 3 hours, which is one or two sleep cycles. That can't be coincidental, but as if doctors know wtf's going on. Often I can't go back to sleep either. So be happy with 4.5! 😊


My first post in this thread. Alcohol has definitely been a source of problems in my life but mostly just in recent years in regards to relationships. It has always been a source of relief from overwhelming issues floating around in my head. I've always been the type of person that could walk away from any habit but in recent times it seems I come back to alcohol to medicate my issues. I've never been to therapy and to be honest I feel that clinical therapy would probably just leave me feeling awkward and that it was a colossal waste of time for me. I've witnessed others go through therapy and it seems that they just pussyfoot around asking questions that they just reflect back onto the individual to sort through themselves. The thought of that seems to just piss me off about it and want a drink even more to escape the rambling bastard that I just paid for nothing. I would get better therapy from BL or some music or just picking on my guitar. That REALLY helps me a lot. It seems that I can let go of a lot of emotion just playing an instrument and stumbling across tones that seem to resonate with my feelings at the time. I've played many instruments since I was a young lad so it's easier for me to explore tones for emotion than it probably would be for some, though I'm just a self therapeutic player. That's literally why I do it. Maybe you should pick up an instrument and try it. I promise you the first time you hit a couple notes that resonate, it's like a language you can't speak but you feel it and it can flow out of you. Went down a rabbit hole there but back to the subject.

I've done a lot of drugs but always was able to walk away from them when playtime was over. I even quit cigarettes cold turkey for years after years of smoking and then I smoked again for some years. I quit them cold turkey some years ago and the smell of them make me gag today. I smoked crack with a friend after he and I had drank probably more than a case of beer and a fifth of whiskey. After I took a puff of the sizzly stuff, I immediately felt perfectly sober from where a drunk man stood a few short seconds before. I did this many times but walked away. Just didn't care enough about it to invest anything. By the way as a side note, I always thought Crack tasted like the smell of stale air from an inner tube or a basketball. ... I've done meth many times throughout my life and in many ways, though I've never shot anything because even the doctor better ask me if I'm ready before he/she stabs me with a needle! Don't like injections of any kind! Matter of fact I've got some good meth in the drawer right now but I haven't messed with it in many days because I over amped easy as you please last time I hit it and I didn't have a pleasant time but I managed ok. The shit must be near pure. I'll have to tread lightly one step at a time the next time I decide to touch it but I don't care if I went looking for it and it's gone missing. No biggie for me but you know what is a biggie for me? ALCOHOL!

I mentioned before in a different thread that I'm not a repulsive drinker. I don't get belligerent or violent. I'm a rather mellow drinker who tends to feel good, enjoy great music and conversations, gets hungry and finally gets sleepy. I've walked away from everything but alcohol. It's like I can't turn my back on it completely. I have a safety sensitive job that takes me out of town and I can go without alcohol for weeks and feel fine but once I'm off and I have time to reflect... it's a problem if I don't plan the day.

What I've found is that for me at least, moderation doesn't make me feel like I've failed. It seems to be a normal part of my culture except for the lack of moderation. There is a difference between urge and desire. There is a difference between what I like and what I don't like. There is a difference between what I enjoy consuming and what I do not. That line is elusive to the eye as it passes under your feet. I'm not telling anyone not to quit completely. By all means, do so if you feel you need it and more power to you!

I've watched alcoholics try and quit and the shame they had for slipping up and having a few sips absolutely pissed me off because the people who were supposed to be supporting them didn't say that's alright, just pick the ball back up and keep going. No big deal. NO! They stigmatized their actions and probably made the situation worse for the individual because stigmatizing that simple set back was actually telling that person that they have failed. I despise these types of people who haven't walked a mile in your shoes and I would go farther to say that their support for you was likely simply to gain support of their own from those surrounding them because no one that really cares about you in the abstract is ever going to tell you that this is the ultimate failure you've committed. You don't need those toxic kinds of people supporting you because they don't support you really! Let me ask you that if someone with a mental disability was being taught to stop acting out on some behavior that they were driven to do and after a month of being good, they offended again. What do think they would be told? ................?............. I'll tell you. They would be told that they were brave and strong and they've done good this far and everyone can see the improvements that they've been achieving. .................. Now here you are someone who has a problem with alcohol. I've been around the block so many times, I know that for the most part, your problem might be with alcohol but the alcohol isn't the root problem. NO WAY JOSE!........ The alcohol use is a byproduct of the underlying root problem! Now think about that. You might not be mentally handicapped like the last example but you are definitely a victim of a psychological issue and when loved ones and friends stigmatize you as simply a drunkard yet they raise up on a pedestal those with clearly visible mental challenges yet condemn you, what are they saying? I challenge you to answer that question in a loving manner because if you do it's going to expose some serious shortcomings of the very individuals whom you thought would reach down and offer a hand to you in your darkest hour! I am not impressed by narrow, self interested, unenlightened people who claim to be saints.

You do your best and I'll gladly tell you to keep going. For me, moderation is key and acceptable. I may one day just give it up and walk away but I will not be told that I chose my problem over a loved one. If I had chosen alcohol over a loved one, I'd be at the bar or out with friends getting hammered. I certainly wouldn't be with them trying to have a life and fight my problems ALL ALONE.

Sincerely and yours truly,
Love OVER_AMPER.

Welcome here @OVER_AMPER 😊

Alcohol has been my downfall. Acute Pancreatitis left me diabetic (needing insulin) in 2008. I can't stay sober without horrible anxiety and depression but I do anything to avoid drinking.. Benzos, meth, weed, cigarettes. I love opiates but they were my brother's downfall (dead 2014, heroin OD). So I stay away from that.

Anyway, this forum is more supportive than most drug & alcohol services. I was a fan of AA for a while and they do have some very helpful ideas, but complete abstinence is unrealistic in my case and can backfire in that it causes shame and obsessive thinking.

All the best..

Abbey x
 
4.5 hours is ok. Seriously.. This 8 hours a night thing is bullshit and just makes you more stressed if you can't. I don't think I've had a regular 8 hrs a night in my life. With all my hormonal problems (thyroid, pancreas, ovaries) I've spent years waking up after 1.5 or 3 hours, which is one or two sleep cycles. That can't be coincidental, but as if doctors know wtf's going on. Often I can't go back to sleep either. So be happy with 4.5! 😊
I am happy with it, anything under 4 is pretty rough on me, though.

There's actually a genetic thing here. Some people are genetically "short sleepers" where they can function just fine on 4-6hr of sleep, where other people really need 8hr to function 100%

I've always deeply loved sleeping and get really cranky when I can't.

but yeah, I can't really be complaining too much after so many years of drug and alcohol abuse on my poor little brain :)

 
trying to break through that feeling boredom in the evenings. I've just been watching a lot of movies and it's starting to make me a bit stir crazy.
Haha I hardly watch TV still because I got into the habit of not focusing on it anyway when I was chilling at night at the start of recovery.. I started getting stoned and playing chess (I know u play chess and I probs don't take it seriously enough like my score on chess.com proves 😆 if u ever fancy whipping me at it give me a shout) and doing random things like painting and music (production, strumming guitar) even if it didn't look or sound great it was something different for a while. That would be my advice on anyone starting off cause for me personally I was going mad with cravings I couldn't enjoy anything that I automatically associated with what I did do to relax with a drink in fact I've only began enjoying music again to the extent I did before fully (and even more maybe) before getting dry. I'm not saying everyone's the same and since I was/am grieving a loss it will be another factor in the mix maybe but it might resonate with someone somewhere 🙂
Started getting back into some TV recently again lol and it's been quite enjoyable if it's something interesting. I find that my brain needs stimulating in more ways now and that I enjoy and can disappear into more now which is great since I couldn't remember what I was saying in sentence a lot before detox - it really fucked my brain and had memory problems worse than cannabis. So glad I'm getting better and my brain is improving.
 
I am happy with it, anything under 4 is pretty rough on me, though.

There's actually a genetic thing here. Some people are genetically "short sleepers" where they can function just fine on 4-6hr of sleep, where other people really need 8hr to function 100%

I've always deeply loved sleeping and get really cranky when I can't.

but yeah, I can't really be complaining too much after so many years of drug and alcohol abuse on my poor little brain :)


Yeah Margaret Thatcher only needed 4 hours or something.. Trump reckoned he only slept an hour a night I read somewhere, but that's Trump lol.

But I'm actually trying reverse psychology 😉 Maybe if you think 4 hours is enough you'll stress less and get more. Sleep is such a tricky business because the harder you try, the less likely you are to sleep.

I read an interesting article years ago about people in pre-industrial times who would typically sleep around 4 hours, get up and do stuff (can't remember what) and then sleep another 4 hours. It was related to the lack of electricity ie. lighting and heating. But the point of this article was that the current "you must get 8 hours a night or you'll have a heart attack" attitude is very specific to our society. I wish I'd saved it.
 
But I'm actually trying reverse psychology 😉 Maybe if you think 4 hours is enough you'll stress less and get more. Sleep is such a tricky business because the harder you try, the less likely you are to sleep.
Yeah, I think there is something to this. Some night when I wake up, I'll start to get super frustrated about not getting good sleep... and I think this actually prevents me from going back to sleep.
 
Sometimes when I'm anxious about not sleeping I think of this..



was this during his benzo withdrawal?

I've heard of him speak of his benzo withdrawal, not sure how much you've heard about that? He was dependent on clonazepam and ended up going to a detox in Russia for some reason. I think during and after that episode he started becoming increasingly more controversial and more famous at the same time. Not a good mix. This happened around the time he did Rogan.
 
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The alcohol use is a byproduct of the underlying root problem! Now think about that. You might not be mentally handicapped like the last example but you are definitely a victim of a psychological issue and when loved ones and friends stigmatize you as simply a drunkard yet they raise up on a pedestal those with clearly visible mental challenges yet condemn you, what are they saying? I challenge you to answer that question in a loving manner because if you do it's going to expose some serious shortcomings of the very individuals whom you thought would reach down and offer a hand to you in your darkest hour! I am not impressed by narrow, self interested, unenlightened people who claim to be saints.
Just because someone presents as being a 'normie' doesn't mean they aren't just as broken as you on the inside, it could be they are looking for you to give them support for their own brokenness and you can't because you need support for your alcoholism, so they blame your alcoholism for them not getting support. Meanwhile, you are looking for support for your alcoholism and not getting it from them, so you blame them for being stigmatizing and self righteous about your alcoholism. Each is looking for support from the other that neither can give at the moment. I think if both sides are willing to go to therapy or counseling to commit to improving relationship and communication skills a lot can be done to improve the situation.
 
@AbbeyLee thanks for warm welcome.
It was tough to read that and my heart goes out to you. I wish you all the peace and happiness that could possibly come your way. Good vibes your way in general!

On sleep, I don't have a source and I'm really going off memory here but the u.s. army did some research on sleeping. A LOT of research I would assume. From what I remember, they found that once the average individual got less than 4 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period for consecutive day after day, it began to catch up with them in bad ways. I don't remember all those details on the negative impacts but if you get a total of at least 4, it is sustainable long term. Doesn't have to be 4 consecutive hours. Scratching my head, that's what I seem to remember.

Someone mention chess. I love chess. Haven't played much in a few months. I like online correspondence but if can catch online I like radid and some 5+0 blitz. Used to play lichess mostly. Maybe we can strike up a game sometime. I'm definitely much worse when drinking!

Update on myself, I'm running local loads but it's been great for me as opposed to long haul. For some reason I feel there's just less room to be depressed about shit with these runs. Probably the fact that there's multiple drop and hooks during the day to focus on. I really hope they let me have this lane. I haven't went home for a few days even though I could've. I've just stayed focused, work, eat, sleep and repeat.

@Snafu in the Void (high five 👋 )
 
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Just because someone presents as being a 'normie' doesn't mean they aren't just as broken as you on the inside, it could be they are looking for you to give them support for their own brokenness and you can't because you need support for your alcoholism, so they blame your alcoholism for them not getting support. Meanwhile, you are looking for support for your alcoholism and not getting it from them, so you blame them for being stigmatizing and self righteous about your alcoholism. Each is looking for support from the other that neither can give at the moment. I think if both sides are willing to go to therapy or counseling to commit to improving relationship and communication skills a lot can be done to improve the situation.
That's a good way of looking at it. Probably exactly right. I usually don't get mad if someone criticizes my consumption but I'll admit from a few folks it was hurtful but they were right and only wanted me not hurt myself. It's when I see others being criticized in the mainstream stigma sort of way that makes me angry in defense of that individual especially if they're making an effort. I do see your point and that's food for thought.
 
good to see so much discussion in this thread.

i had a very nice time camping and walking, making good use of the long weekend we had. i've drank every night but not to excess except last night. i was knackered cos it was so windy while we were camping that i kept get woken up by the wind literally rolling me inside the tent. so i fell asleep at like 8 having bought some beers with the intent of drinking them with my boyf. he also fell asleep super early. so then i woke up at like 1am and decided to crack the beers i hadn't touched. there is something i love about the middle of the night when i don't have to stress about being up in the morning and no one is awake. so yeah, drank 2 people's worth of beer and went back to sleep at maybe 7 am.

re sleep and the need thereof. i definitely need more now than i used to. i used to be just about able to do a decent days work on 2 hours sleep. i had to figure it out cos otherwise insomnia woulda made me unemployable. now i really struggle on less than 6. part of it is discipline i think, i'm100% remote so i can get away with a little nap in the day as long as i have no meetings. but part of it is definitely just needing more sleep, cos i'm totally unable to think if i'm on day 2 or 3 of less than 6 hours sleep.
 
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