Russo-Ukrainian War v. World War 3?
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Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
Russian trolls all over the internet.
FUCK PUTIN
FUCK PUTIN
imo_incolae
Bluelighter
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Yes and Russia will do exactly that. Just like the West has done since WW2 all over the world. Do you have an explanation for the endless amounts of bombs dropped that haven't had anything to do with Russia? And the wars started without provocation by Russia? You're actively defending a war right now that is being slowly blown up by the same people who brought you all the other wars since WW2 and all the bombs dropped, innocent lives killed, communities destroyed, governments overthrown, economies crumbled and entire countries destabilised. I'm just interested whether you can comment on those? Or is it too difficult to draw parallels and see the connections and the same involvement, the same characters, same bogeyman script, same 'saving the world' bullshit?
A delusion is based on irrefutable evidence of the contrary being true. A drug induced psychosis for example or pathological personality disorder symptoms like grandiosity in narcissism for example. A narcissist sees the world in a way that others don't. Someone hearing voices is hearing something others don't. That isn't political. It's just a fact. What you are referring to is simply people's opinions. People choosing to express themselves and maybe even in ways that don't align with your views. Pathologizing dissent is what the Nazis did and it's what dictatorships are based on, so be careful where you go with that one. What you are essentially saying is freedom of expression is a mental illness if it's expression you don't agree with. I think that's more akin to sickness if I'm honest. After all, all tyrants have in insatiable appetite for power, control and domination based on an inherently damaged self. Their currency is violence and death and suffering. And that's all they accept. We tend to keep those people locked behind prison walls though.
Dictator and murderer. What would-be leader in today's world isn't any of those things? If you've authorised use of force on foreign populations, hostile or not, you're a murderer. So that's practically every leader who has those resources at their disposal. As for dictatorship, hardly. Russia is by far not the most democratic place on the planet and it's full of bullshit like any other.
And yep, the chemical weapons attacks were staged and this has been debunked. It was an operation ran to muster aggression towards Syria so that the West could drop bombs and do it's usual dirty business on another country. Assad has never been bought by the West and this rattles them. Any country that holds it's own, has vast amounts of resources and has important corridors to the rest of the world, is a threat. We've seen this with every country that has refused to cooperate with the West. And they've ever been toppled, overthrown, destabilised or they surrendered. Syria has not done either and so the West attempted to overthrow Assad, which failed. This isn't to say Assad is a nice guy or that he's not guilty of anything. From a purely political standpoint and one of sovereignty over territory and internal affairs, he held his own.
In Syria much of the propaganda was generated by British entities connected to the intelligence community. Research the white helmets. And then you have the propaganda outlet called Bellingcat which churned out copious amounts of 'evidence' that was unbelievably technical, almost so technical it came from the intelligence communities themselves. These are apparently citizen journalists who at the same time have access to more intel than Western governments seem to have/had. People have actively researched Bellingcat and found it's owner has shady connections to all things intelligence establishment. Syria was going through civil unrest at the time facing it's own internal problems. The West funded terrorists in an attempt to topple the government. This failed. These were called in the media 'moderate rebels' which is like saying a terrorist wearing a suicide vest but without a detonator. It's still a fucking suicide vest and it's a terrorist willing to detonate it whose wearing it! The 'moderates' then created their own factions which led on to the creation of ISIS who then turned against the West and this then continued to stoke the fires of the War on Terror now the West had a new bogeyman to attack in ISIS. So your leaders FUNDED terrorists who are now wanting to infiltrate the West and kill Westerners. The attacks we have witnessed all over the West are tied to the ramped up threat from the influence of Islamic extremism that has been cultivated because of the power these factions that were ALLOWED to form and then coalesce into the threat we know as ISIS and it's radical ideologies. Most of this fomented because of the uprising in Syria and Western backed and funded operations. The huge uptick in refugees from the Middle East and surrounding areas is because of the stoking of these fires by the West.
Putin isn't offended by the West. He's one of the most powerful men on the planet. This is politics. You're falling for such a romantic DIsney style storyline. Just like BIden isn't offended by Russia or Asia (because his dealings with them all prove otherwise) Putin isn't offended by the West. That is an illusion you are being sold in order to create the idea of tribal camps; the West Vs. East. At one point it was blacks against whites, straights against gays. It still IS the rich against the poor. These battles people play out everyday exist to keep them in bondage to a game that serves only those who create the rules. Putin is a world leader and just like any other leader he wants YOU to believe life can be explained in arbitrary ways. And this arbitration exposes a very well researched element of the human condition - emotions. When you know longer talk about facts and come to logical rational conclusions you fall back onto emotional reasoning. If you've ever had therapy you'll know emotional reasoning is one of the first things you learn in therapy (especially CBT). It's when your entire life is dictated by how you feel right now and by what you PERCEIVE controls how you feel based on whatever fleeting erratic and spurious external influence is present.
Prove to me what is going on right now isn't just one huge cluster-fuck of emotional reasoning? Just like it was during COVID-19? Prove to me that people aren't just standing and cheering, saluting and crying and talking about Ukraine because their feelings and emotions have been manipulated and they've fallen for a well crafted script like that of a soap opera on your television? It's all the same thing. People mirroring what they see on their smartphones, TVs and wherever else and then riding on the emotional rollercoaster it provides until commanded, pushed and nudged (as they call it in social psychology) towards something else. And off again they go cheering for someone else or something else, crying in the streets, hugging, taking a knee, saluting and whatever other gestures and behaviours they do as a result of BELIEVING they are reflecting the reality of whatever they are involved in.
Next week or next month, maybe even next year you'll be supporting something else. This something else will turn up randomly but God forbid you ignore it! If you ignore it you're not a real citizen! Just like many others will, aimlessly wandering to the next situation in order to get their fix and feel like their emotional response is warranted. We do this already, with babies. We teach babies what emotions should be expressed and in what ways and how they should be expressed. Doesn't it make you sick that the same techniques that were used on you when you were in nappies is still being used on you today as a grown adult? The question I would be asking is; where it the mom and pops behind the scenes giving you feedback as to what is right and wrong? Have you met your surrogate parents yet? Will you ever? These are genuine questions, by the way. After all, you're being told this is how the world is. Says who? Provide the evidence. It will be ALM (Alien Lives Matter) sooner or later when the UFO narrative takes off again and the government start pushing it as a way to expand out into space and create laws and narratives that support their agendas. Will you be on the band wagon? I'm asking these questions honestly.
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simstim
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2021
- Messages
- 6,606
My little brother was adopted from Ukraine in 2004. He's 16 years younger than me.
I saw an article on BBC World news the day before yesterday about drunk Russian soldiers killing women's husbands and raping them. It was pretty messed up.
It's hard to believe this is happening and nobody has really gone to aid Ukraine yet.
I bet if Trump were in office we would be doing something other than economic sanctions.
I saw an article on BBC World news the day before yesterday about drunk Russian soldiers killing women's husbands and raping them. It was pretty messed up.
It's hard to believe this is happening and nobody has really gone to aid Ukraine yet.
I bet if Trump were in office we would be doing something other than economic sanctions.
Haha. Just like Covid. Anything that goes against the borg hivemind collective is deemed verboten. Absolutely pathetic. No room for debate or claims that might detract from the one-sided narrative.
The fact that people still can't see what's wrong with this stance just boggles me. Does Google have evidence to prove that Ukraine isnt' attacking its own citizens? No? Then they should shut up and just go back to being a search algorithm and not this beast mind incarnate.
People don't understand how duplicitous and messed up the British establishment is. Some people have heard the information about the CIA and the various evils they have conducted since their inception, the stuff that is declassified at least, but not many people know that the CIA was established by MI6 (or the wider context of how the British establishment conquered America). The British establishment is at the root of a lot of the evil in the world today, with the only greater evil being the masters in Rome.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
By putting Covid and ukraine might be bombing their own citizens together made me stop cold and question whether my stance on Covid really was an unhinged conspiracy theory because if it’s really on par with the belief that the Ukrainians are ombing their own citizens something I know is not true am I wrong about Covid. Am I wrong about my beliefs about the vaccine.
i am too fxxked up to really soul search on this but it needs to be done.
Electrum1
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
- Messages
- 29,216
I mean, "Russia" bombed a train station in a small town with a kind of bomb that Russia stopped using 30 years ago, and the media magically shows up within 15min to a random town in a war zone to cover the bombing, seems suspicious to me. I just don't believe anything the media reports about the war now.
w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
There's more than one "hivemind", however. We could could even call it a "divemind."
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Random town?
see this is what kills me this town was in the Donetsk region and was packed with people fleeing the violence in that region. There was nothing random. That is why the station was filled with women and children. It was another humanitarian corridor of escaping civilians just like other humanitarian corridors russia has bombed. April 8 in Kramatorsk, the town where the train was bombed was being used to evacuate civilians from areas that are expected to come under heavy attack as Moscow redirects its war efforts to focus on eastern areas where the separatists it has backed since 2014 have been fighting Ukrainian troops.
this is not a random town and why would reporters be there
shit was happening there and has been happening there it was escalating and people were actively ramping up there attempts to get out.
its upsetting to me when people talk about things with zero facts no baxkgorund information and a bunch of conspiracy theories that other people will believe and latch on to because it’s easy and may fit a preexisting narrative they have or makes them able to feel justified to not care
don’t speak about shit you have no idea about
random town
yeah they had no reason To bomb it and the people were there for no reason and the russia had no strategic reason to bomb it and all the people that were fleeing were there for no reason and the violence in that area is all fake too
you sound so fucking ignorant
Edited to address the bomb being 30yrs old ….. seems to be a theme!
“Russia’s stretched military is reportedly sending soldiers to fight in Ukraine with weapons developed in the late 19th century.
Conscripts in the Russian-backed Donbas region are said to have been dispatched into front-line fighting with a rifle called a Mosin, with the Kremlin relying on weapons stocks dating to the Second World War.“
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imo_incolae
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2022
- Messages
- 192
You essentially just attempted to reflect back what I said onto me. I'm seeking a genuine conversation and nobody can answer why they feel the way they do. Emphasis on FEEL, because that's all people are experiencing, FEELINGS. Nobody is stating facts. They are just saying essentially RUSSIA NEEDS TO DIE!!!?!!!
But on closer examination, they don't really know why they are saying it.
Can you explain why you hate Russia so much? And don't say because of what has recently happened because if you do, you're proving that your opinion on such a complex subject as politics can be manipulated so easily that you can go from not caring to breathing fire on demand. You didnt have this much sentiment towards Russia before, did you? Or has Russia always been a country you wake up having nightmares about? Come on. Be real. You didn't care for Russia OR Ukraine before you were told to do so.
That's not being a loyal credible citizen, that's being a sellout. If you put this into real life terms, that's you having your relationships controlled by an external force and being told when your relationships are acceptable and what you can believe about them. You like your parents one day but as soon as the controller tells you to hate them you start going on social media bashing them and promoting hateful rhetoric. But then months later you're attacking another relationship in your life while trying to play diplomat with the ties you've already severed from past skirmishes. Your opinion of your love life hangs on a dime. You're in love when it suits the controller, out of it when it doesn't. You will push everyone away in a heartbeat when told to do so. When you look at it like that, its really no different. When someone has that much power over you and your life, you're in a really serious situation. That was just an EXAMPLE by the way. I'm not assuming I know anything about your personal life and any connection to relationships I mentioned is purely incidental. But you get the point.
Yes, I do question what I'm told. And whenever I have done I've been rewarded with feedback reinforcing my decision. The world isn't how you have been told to see it. I'm sorry but it isn't. The world as people see it is a movie script sculpting over many generations of narrative spinning, manufacturing of history, planting seeds in the collective perceptions of the masses, influencing social, economical and political agendas through good 'ole fashioned manipulation. That's how your world works.
If you don't believe me, why are we the only species to have created laws for living in society? Why are we the only species to have a definition for what society is in the first place? You won't find a dog chuffing on a pipe deliberating on the sociological and philosophical meaning of dog society. Cats don't create laws around how cat world is run. So if that's true, when did our reality fall into place? And who made it? And were we involved? Are you involved in the creating of reality now in the world? Am I? Nope. So who is pulling the strings. If we can meet right now in this digital world based on no intentional desire to actually meet and talk about something we didn't create the context for talking about, what does that say about the control in place to make that happen? I mean, something pushed you to come here to talk about this. But it wasn't you. Because as stated, you can't even explain why you are saying what you are saying.
And see, you're projecting your distorted reality on global politics onto me. I think it's ALL FUCKED. I don't support any side. I would happily wipe out the idea of Putin being a world leader from peoples consciousness as much as I would Boris Johnson or Biden. I think my own government is just as much a major problem as Russia or Ukraine. I know moreover, they are, because the very existence of my government is to control me. And history has shown what the preferences are when the government gets that control. We all can relate to it because we all believe our governments don't actually serve us. We are the little guys after all. Were just helpless cattle being corralled by a rancher. And we have no real influence on what is going on. We just make noises when told to and vote with our emotions and then corralled back into the pen.
Yes, the West is evil. Or should I say, the political machinery that identifies itself as the west. The west is just a construct based on basic geography. Its nothing but a geographical reference to a particular area of landmass on a map. The landmass isn't responsible for the stories we tell each other and the shit that happens. Again, notice the concreteness in the belief of there being a West? The west doesn't exist. It only exists when we refer to the politics of the world we live in. And whose in control of the politics? You guessed it and its not you. So people believe home is what politicians have manufactured. You identify home with a political narrative, not the reality. And therein lies the problem.
I would happily make your problems go away by removing the control systems in place that imprison you and condition you into defending their existence. But that would involve removing the hierarchies in place that have existed since human civilization began. The whole world as you know it would change. All this started when clever people started to realize they could pull rank on less clever people and create hierarchies that when collectively agreed upon put them into powerful positions over the society they lived in. And then this expanded on until we have the machinery today. Someone essentially said "I am king and you will bow to me", people scratched their heads for a while and then said " Uhmm, okay, I guess?" and here we are. So the idea of power and control and all the realities that exist today are a product of it and I would happily undo all that if I could but it starts by understanding its got a little bit more to do with Ukraine than you think. Ukraine IS the distraction to keep you from actually taking back control over your own life and questioning the narrative.
And, what's wrong with being Russian?
Just like with the country you live in, Russians aren't the ones creating these problems. They are pawns in a political game that serves whom? Them? Or the ruling classes? Its no different to how it is over here. Subjects and rulers. Make sure you point your finger at the real culprits. 99% of the population are civilians. Me, you and pretty much everybody else. We are the casualties of this, not the aggressors. Which is exactly my point. Why are we casualties?
Think about that for a second.
I wasn't suggesting they were doing that, just that Google doesn't know that they aren't. Google aren't the military or intelligence, they don't know, therefore they are in no position to say what is permissible speculation or not - they shouldn't be limiting discussion anyway (free speech).
On the other hand I would not be surprised in the slightest if elements of the Ukrainian forces, with a little help from western spooks, did in fact target citizens or infrastructure in order to make a justification for further aid/escalation. War is business, and those at the top of the pile do not have morals.
The first clip I saw which I recognized as bullshit straight away was that missile that struck a residential tower. Perfectly captured on camera. Of all the sky for a random missile to fly into.. and it hits that tower - Russia wouldn't waste a missile arbitrarily to cause random damage to a random residential block. That was clearly staged propaganda designed to illicit the emotional response.
The system itself is entity conscious aka the beast. I don't know at what point this occurred, or whether it is singular or a collection of entities, but it has happened.
w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
That's terrible that you feel like you have no room for debate. If only there was a conservative website that would allow you to post your opinions, maybe this world would work out ok.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
do you know anything about Russian military tactics?
that is not a waste of missile to them
flattening civilian dwellings is a key of their military style
in Aleppo they did that:
”In October 2016, the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, Zeid Ra’ad al Hussein, described Aleppo as "a slaughterhouse" and "a gruesome locus of pain and fear, where the lifeless bodies of small children are trapped under streets of rubble and pregnant women deliberately bombed."
in dobras, in Chechnya
this is how they fight, they go for maximum emotional and psychological damage
it’s a tactic
Russia destroyed a theater in Mariupol where hundreds of civilians had taken shelter, Ukrainian authorities said on March 16, as hundreds of thousands of people remained trapped in the besieged strategic port on the Sea of Azov.
Amnesty international on the Russian targeting of civilian infrastructure
Ukraine: Russia’s cruel siege warfare tactics unlawfully killing civilians – new testimony and investigation
The Russian military’s siege warfare tactics in Ukraine, marked by relentless indiscriminate attacks on densely-populated areas, are unlawfully killing civilians in several cities, Amnesty International said today in a new on-the-ground investigation. For the first time, Amnesty International...
www.amnesty.org
not a waste, not a set up, hardly new this is in their playbook
it benefits them that you see their long history of doing the same thing over and over again through the narrow view of that is so abhorrent it must be a mistake and giving them a pass and blaming the victim of the atrocity
what faulty faulty logic
some of the worst crimes against us all have be perpetuated that way. Mkultra no one believed anyone would do that, it was too crazy. They blamed the victims; they were nuts or drug addicts not worthy of being believed. To me it mirrors the narrative that the Ukrainians are corrupt, they are bombing themselves or in the middle of fighting for them damn lives are setting up fake shows and filming them. That is not rational. They are fighting for their damn lives over there. Not sacrificing their own. Not filming bullshit movies. They Have actual atrocities happening they don’t need to make them up.
i think it’s easier for people to believe it’s fake because then they have a get out caring free card. How bout you just own the fact the don’t care and be a man about it instead of playing these reindeer games.
the butcher of syria is trained in the Soviet Russia strategy of doing exactly what you see as a waste of a missile expect to see a lot more “staged” civilian Infrastructure bombed
if you have been watching entire ukraianin villages are decimated as can be seen from satillate and drone footage as well as ground footage. entire apartment buildings and city blocks. but I guess they have the time and munitions to waste on hollywood level stunts when they are running out of bullets in firefights
reality has left the chat in so many of these arguments
I really feel a sense of despair about human beings
what is happening to peoples ability to critically think and to feel for their other human beings
Oh, so you're an expert on military tactics?
I never said I do care. In fact, I don't. Sorry. I'm not going to get emotionally entangled in something that doesn't concern me, especially when our media is telling us to care. There has been no discussion of historical context, no discussion of attempting real negotiation or peace. It's just Russia/Putin bad. Yeah, sorry, fuck off, we've been here half a dozen times before in the past couple of decades.. I'm certainly not falling for that bullshit.
You only know what the media is showing you and you're taking it for reality, thinking that what we're presented is somehow unbiased and truthful. It's not. It's a curated slice of reality, not reality.
You lament other human beings and ability to think critically. Perhaps you should turn off the TV and look at your reflection in the glass first.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
...says the guy who doesn't believe viruses are real
this modern attitude of people believing they know more truth than other people simply because they choose to disbelieve everything in mainstream media is tragically stupid
could you be wrong on these issues? is that possible - that others are correct and you're the one not seeing things correctly?
alasdair
MydriHaze
Ex-Bluelighter
The majority law.... slipery slope..
I'm not and I don't require your tame attempt at trying to gaslight or stir the pot. If you want to actually contribute something either way, kool, then let's discuss it..
Both covid and ukraine are one-sided narratives. That is just a fact of reality that no fact-checker can verify without taking a hard look at themselves and having a conniption fit of self awareness.
Google, like the other big tech companies, is over stepping its bounds and allowing itself to be used as tools/weapons of the establishment. Not like they weren't already, they were built for it from the very beginning, but openly censoring and curating speech is not something they or anyone should be doing.