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Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

It would be awesome if we could just blame religion for all of our closeted issues.

Unfortunately homophobia leaks deeper into our culture and psyche than religion could ever reach.
 
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL
Its complex, probably all of the above
 
It would be awesome if we could just blame religion for all of our closeted issues.

Unfortunately homophobia leaks deeper into our culture and psyche than religion could ever reach.

I think there's some truth to this, but it's a really mixed bag. Men tend to be victims of violence way more than women simply because they're men, and homosexual men are a minority compared to heterosexual men. Hetero male chauvanism in general is a big reason for homophobia. The big three religions in the west amplified this because of politics. The Christians, for example, were literally an underground cult beneath Rome (in the catacombs) and were outlaws. They resented the decadence of Rome, which included homosexuality and pederasty. So Christianity's counter-culture to Rome's decadence included homophobia.

It really depends on which culture you look at though, and when. In 15th century Italy, homosexuality was so rampant that the Catholic Church could not keep it under control. Back then, women were seen as inferior (thanks Original Sin), and many men believed that men were superior, so to lay with another man in some way was self-enhancing. Add to that a homosocial environment where men and women don't really mingle except for courtship and marriage, and it created a lot of homosexuality. During identity formation, a lot of men can be culturally coerced into homosexual acts, even if post-identity formation they are only into women. It's hard to envision a male chauvinistic culture that values male-male bonds because of misogyny, but it has been that extreme in the past. And in Italy, it was mainly the authority (the Church) that was against it... so what better way to join a counter-culture in one's youth like many 20 somethings do?

It works in reverse too. I mean, how many gay men are closeted and play the straight role because of culture, including fatherfood, when really they'd rather be with a man? It happens all the time. 40 or even 50 somethings coming out when their kids have grown up.

And this is really, really hard for most contemporary people to understand, but a sexual act does not define your sexuality. I can go stick my dick in a tree for all I care, and it doesn't mean I'm tree-sexual lol. Men who have sex with men are not necessarily gay (as we see in prisons). Men who have sex with women are not necessarily straight, though society would like us to believe they all are, and they certainly play the part because of cultural biases.

In other cultures, especially some warrior-based ones, male-male sexual relations are a coming of age thing that transfers manhood to a new man.

The majority of cultures, past and present, have a relatively neutral view toward homosexuality, as long as the man fulfills his family duties of procreation, taking a wife, etc. They don't care what he does on the side. Well I mean, they do care, but not as badly if you're doing your duty. This is currently the case in China. It is much easier to conceal your homosexual behaviour if you live a double life in China. People literally don't want to comprehend that Chinese people can be gay, so they pretend it's a western thing.

It's hard for narrow minded people to comprehend, but in a permissive culture, homosexual acts occur way, way more regularly... and this modern ideal of "gay" "straight" "bisexual" just doesn't exist. With women it's different. Homosexuality does not work the same way. Women display more sexual fluidity than men over the course of their lives. Men display more fluidity in permissive cultures and during formative years.

Kinsey proved that human sexual orientation is a spectrum, not an either/or situation, and that most adult human beings are on a spectrum somewhere between gay and straight. Relatively few are 100% one or the other. I mean, I relate to that. I'm attracted to men 99.998% of the time but maybe once in a blue moon (it's truly rare) I see a woman that I actually kind of get turned on for. But then my own identity conditioning prevents me from ever acting upon it.
 
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I used to know everything. Now I know next to nothing. If I point out that John B. Calhoun's Mouse Utopia Experiments produced homosexual Mice, would that help the discussion?
Probably not. But it's an interesting piece of historic research.
 
I used to know everything. Now I know next to nothing. If I point out that John B. Calhoun's Mouse Utopia Experiments produced homosexual Mice, would that help the discussion?
Probably not. But it's an interesting piece of historic research.
Mickey Mouse Laugh GIF by ABC Network
 
Gay, Happy or Dumb? Who is the real Kurt Cobain? A Logical Explanation


In the song "Dumb" he says,

"I think I'm dumb
Or maybe just happy "


So we now know that Kurt is either dumb or happy.

Now let's take look at the song, "All Apologies." Kurt says,

"What else could I say
Everyone is gay "

Since everyone is gay, this also means that Kurt is gay. So we now know that Kurt must either be a dumb gay or a happy gay.

"But what if he meant "carefree" as the meaning for gay, not homosexual gay?" one might ponder. Let's consider this lemma.

Since he says that "everyone is gay", this would also mean that everyone is carefree. If this is the case, then Kurt must now either be a carefree dumb-dumb or he is a carefree happy go lucky.


In conclusion, Kurt must be one of the four personality types:

A: A dumb gay
B: A happy gay
C: A carefree dumb-dumb
D: A carefree happy go lucky
 
I think there's some truth to this, but it's a really mixed bag. Men tend to be victims of violence way more than women simply because they're men, and homosexual men are a minority compared to heterosexual men. Hetero male chauvanism in general is a big reason for homophobia. The big three religions in the west amplified this because of politics. The Christians, for example, were literally an underground cult beneath Rome (in the catacombs) and were outlaws. They resented the decadence of Rome, which included homosexuality and pederasty. So Christianity's counter-culture to Rome's decadence included homophobia.

It really depends on which culture you look at though, and when. In 15th century Italy, homosexuality was so rampant that the Catholic Church could not keep it under control. Back then, women were seen as inferior (thanks Original Sin), and many men believed that men were superior, so to lay with another man in some way was self-enhancing. Add to that a homosocial environment where men and women don't really mingle except for courtship and marriage, and it created a lot of homosexuality. During identity formation, a lot of men can be culturally coerced into homosexual acts, even if post-identity formation they are only into women. It's hard to envision a male chauvinistic culture that values male-male bonds because of misogyny, but it has been that extreme in the past. And in Italy, it was mainly the authority (the Church) that was against it... so what better way to join a counter-culture in one's youth like many 20 somethings do?

It works in reverse too. I mean, how many gay men are closeted and play the straight role because of culture, including fatherfood, when really they'd rather be with a man? It happens all the time. 40 or even 50 somethings coming out when their kids have grown up.

And this is really, really hard for most contemporary people to understand, but a sexual act does not define your sexuality. I can go stick my dick in a tree for all I care, and it doesn't mean I'm tree-sexual lol. Men who have sex with men are not necessarily gay (as we see in prisons). Men who have sex with women are not necessarily straight, though society would like us to believe they all are, and they certainly play the part because of cultural biases.

In other cultures, especially some warrior-based ones, male-male sexual relations are a coming of age thing that transfers manhood to a new man.

The majority of cultures, past and present, have a relatively neutral view toward homosexuality, as long as the man fulfills his family duties of procreation, taking a wife, etc. They don't care what he does on the side. Well I mean, they do care, but not as badly if you're doing your duty. This is currently the case in China. It is much easier to conceal your homosexual behaviour if you live a double life in China. People literally don't want to comprehend that Chinese people can be gay, so they pretend it's a western thing.

It's hard for narrow minded people to comprehend, but in a permissive culture, homosexual acts occur way, way more regularly... and this modern ideal of "gay" "straight" "bisexual" just doesn't exist. With women it's different. Homosexuality does not work the same way. Women display more sexual fluidity than men over the course of their lives. Men display more fluidity in permissive cultures and during formative years.

Kinsey proved that human sexual orientation is a spectrum, not an either/or situation, and that most adult human beings are on a spectrum somewhere between gay and straight. Relatively few are 100% one or the other. I mean, I relate to that. I'm attracted to men 99.998% of the time but maybe once in a blue moon (it's truly rare) I see a woman that I actually kind of get turned on for. But then my own identity conditioning prevents me from ever acting upon it.
Energy tends to want to move, otherwise it grows stagnant. I can count the number of men on - one hand - who I've known to have fluid sexual energy. I could go on about the subject at length but that would have to be reserved for another place. I'll just say that the stagnation either causes or is caused by underlying psychological issues, which men tend to have more of than women.

I personally think both/all sexes should be more fluid, but in most cultures this would lead to a lot more scrutiny than what we're used to seeing. I generally tend to notice most men tend to want or seek other men to be fluid around them. This is quite bizarre to me, considering how they react.

When I was younger, it was a lot easier and I noticed my male friends had more flow to whatever energies they were putting off. I figured out that around the cusp of 28 or so is the easiest time to break a person's spirit. But if they're around 35, breaking that spirit has a more lasting effect on the psyche. Granted, I did not test these things on people for the sake of being malevolent. A 35 year old tried to break my spirit in order to corrupt my sexual identity.
 
I shared with you an opinion. As usual, I attempted to be a little but humorous. We can't be stoic scientists constantly.

You, however, have countered with a direct statement implying both that you understand my thought process and state of mind well enough to critique them and that you judge them to be not right. They are not right because they do not fit your acronym-based definition of complex creatures. I'm sorry but you do not need to be classified and filed to be a proud gay person.

It calls into question my whole life experience from finding gay people "disgusting" as a child to meeting my first gay friends in middle school and coming to love and accept them and the divine release of overcoming my own stupid fears and feeling love where there was once disdain.

My main and primary gripe with the acronym is that it is impractical. I want to discuss issues regarding the community and saying "gay" has been accepted by 90% of people as respectful. Thus I prefer to say "gay rights" and such. It is easier and people get the meaning a ND you know full well that this is true.

I would meditate on my intentions a little but and ask yourself why you felt the need to call out such a deeply, mentally visceral part of me in reaction to what was at worst, stupidity. I have no hate in me and it is my honest belief that my objective love and support for these people in life is sufficient for the universe.

Id start with questioning before judgment. We share similar views. Why argue?
fantastic comment, also like pretty much 100% agree with your general perspective on the whole, uh "gay" thing.

used to be grossed out, now am super accepting of gay folks (yeah this includes the other alphabet people, but I ain't typing that cause it looks awful lmfao) (LBGTLMNOPQWERTFUQLOL) (there i tried but like cmon no one will be saying that string of letters in the future, can we just settle on a general queer/gay slang word that's all of em, like why do "progressives" hate accessible language?) (no offense 'progressives' i just think yall are a bit sheltered in academia.)
 
I like to shorten it to the gay community but then I have conservatives telling me that such thing doesn't exist.
lmfao

it's like ya can't win with the red guys or the blue guys, they both just suck at cultural engineering.

i think the "gay community" is a way more inviting and positive sounding phrase than that clinical alphabet soup

(and there is definitely a goddamn gay community, most of them are nice, though a small percentage are sick depraved weirdos like in any community)
 
alot of bi`s and trans, intersexed and asexuals dont want the labels of gay, so im learning the alphabet again, but yeah labels are for jars and jeans, community does have a nice ring to it
 
alot of bi`s and trans, intersexed and asexuals dont want the labels of gay, so im learning the alphabet again, but yeah labels are for jars and jeans, community does have a nice ring to it
uh what bout like... alternatively oriented community?

i feel like once a trans person has transitioned they're either straight, gay or bi again lol. and being trans is a layer totally seperate from your orientation. but i don't know i'm not gay. or trans. lmfao.

[shut up bruh you're like doing the thing, just go be a straight white guy and enjoy that cause it's delightful]

[i'm talking to myself in the brackets here^. and having a great time with it.]

[god bless all yall folks who been made to feel weird cause of what you wanna do in the privacy of your own homes and like also in public i guess. i mean i don't wanna see folks banging in the street even if it's straight people, gross. but on the other hand some gay dudes can kiss in public why would i give a shit, that's adorable and healthy and totally normal to me i guess. it's about context? it's definitely about context]

also real quick : the word gay is fun as shit to say and i'm tryna not ever say fag in reference to gay folks but i mean the word fag definitely comes outta my mouth for better or worse when i'm alone in my car in shitty traffic and some asshole cuts me off, it's just too good of a word to use in anger, and i appologize and know i'm gonna go to hell i guess for that or something. idk. bad karma? whatever hippie or christian nonsense people be throwin out these days.

aight wtf this is totally unnecessary info and uh... i'm gonna stop now. sorry everyone for this abortion of a friggin post. much love, everyone is free to be themselves within reason i guess, was like the point i MEANT to make before it uh turned into this mess.

EDIT: aight so the fag thing i just wanna clarify, the intention and meaning of the word to me: (which i only ever use alone on impulse and yeah i know i'm friggin workin on it) is just "an inconsiderate dick"

because i grew up having tons of people just throwing that word around as a general insult like "douchebag"

so there is no hate towards gays or anyone in that community attached to the word for me, but i know that word carries A LOT of horrible connotations and am trying very hard to not use it if i can help it.

but damn does it just roll off the tongue well impulsively when i'm at my limit and know no one is gonna hear me and be hurt by it.

Ok i'm done done done now

sorry again, god i know this is the worst post i've ever made, may jesus christ and vishnu and all the super friends have mercy on my soul or some bullshit.
 
uh what bout like... alternatively oriented community?

i feel like once a trans person has transitioned they're either straight, gay or bi again lol. and being trans is a layer totally seperate from your orientation. but i don't know i'm not gay. or trans. lmfao.

[shut up bruh you're like doing the thing, just go be a straight white guy and enjoy that cause it's delightful]

[i'm talking to myself in the brackets here^. and having a great time with it.]

[god bless all yall folks who been made to feel weird cause of what you wanna do in the privacy of your own homes and like also in public i guess. i mean i don't wanna see folks banging in the street even if it's straight people, gross. but on the other hand some gay dudes can kiss in public why would i give a shit, that's adorable and healthy and totally normal to me i guess. it's about context? it's definitely about context]

also real quick : the word gay is fun as shit to say and i'm tryna not ever say fag in reference to gay folks but i mean the word fag definitely comes outta my mouth for better or worse when i'm alone in my car in shitty traffic and some asshole cuts me off, it's just too good of a word to use in anger, and i appologize and know i'm gonna go to hell i guess for that or something. idk. bad karma? whatever hippie or christian nonsense people be throwin out these days.

aight wtf this is totally unnecessary info and uh... i'm gonna stop now. sorry everyone for this abortion of a friggin post. much love, everyone is free to be themselves within reason i guess, was like the point i MEANT to make before it uh turned into this mess.

EDIT: aight so the fag thing i just wanna clarify, the intention and meaning of the word to me: (which i only ever use alone on impulse and yeah i know i'm friggin workin on it) is just "an inconsiderate dick"

because i grew up having tons of people just throwing that word around as a general insult like "douchebag"

so there is no hate towards gays or anyone in that community attached to the word for me, but i know that word carries A LOT of horrible connotations and am trying very hard to not use it if i can help it.

but damn does it just roll off the tongue well impulsively when i'm at my limit and know no one is gonna hear me and be hurt by it.

Ok i'm done done done now

sorry again, god i know this is the worst post i've ever made, may jesus christ and vishnu and all the super friends have mercy on my soul or some bullshit.
I'm working on it too. Just because I'm bi doesn't mean I don't have the same issues a straight person has. I'm also working on the N word.

Re-teaching yourself can sometimes take a lifetime. Being aware of your issue puts you MILES ahead of most people though. You're doing good.
 
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